Hurin

For me, it's your posts.

I was using Greymatter. And, before that, NewsPro. Greymatter imported with absolutely no problems. But I'll have to enter the Newspro stuff by hand and then manually change the timestamps. . . and I'm just not going to do that until I've re-done the front-end. Wordpress is really incredible. But I wish it didn't also pretty much force you to use their front-end as well. I don't know much PHP, so I'm stuck with their template system which I've yet to really look into. . . H

I'm just impressed that some people can simultaneously read text and scrutinize facial expressions. And that they never miss a facial expression, event, or subtle nuance no matter how briefly it is displayed and no matter how long the line of dialogue to be read. Truly astounding and impressive. Really, it makes me wonder why we bother with dialog in movies at all. Why not just subtitle everything, all the time? I mean, obviously, there is no advantage to having your eyes free to take in scenery and nuance while your ears handle dialog. Subtitles are just simply superior and audible dialog has no place in a video experience.

But again, saying that Robotech and Macross are seperate universes that co-exist gives Robotech waaaay too much respect. Macross is the realized vision of its writers and artists. Robotech is a poorly executed bastardization. To say that they should co-exist as seperate fictional universes is like saying that if I re-edited and re-dubbed Star Wars, Star Trek, and Battlestar Galactica so that they all appear to be one over-arching story, and then licensed those films from their original studios for 300 trillion dollars, that my bastardized version of those films and series should then be accepted as a legitimate, seperate fictional universe. When in fact, they'd just be mangled crap. . . with each part suffering as it is artificially crammed into the whole. I realize I may appear to be splitting hairs. But when people look at Robotech and sorta justify it or legitamize it by saying that it's just a different story that should be considered seperate, they are sorta sweeping under the rug how much of a lame-ass decision it was to ever mangle those three series in the first place. . . no matter how necessary it was to do to get it over here (and I doubt so much mangling was actually necessary. . . they just got carried away).

Uh, nobody is suggesting moving "We Will Win" into Macross. . . and least, I'm not. But please don't aggrandize RT by giving it co-equal standing with Macross. Macross is the original story. RT is an ill-conceived, poorly executed, and unfortunate bastardization of it. The only redeeming quality of RT is that it made some of us aware of Macross. Yet, that doesn't make the changes good, nor does it give RT any co-equal status alongside the original. H

Hmmmm, that's a point I hadn't considered. I mean, I was aware of the movie's plot and the meaning of the song. But, I hadn't considered that having that same song sorta appear ex nihilo in the TV series would somewhat drain the "power" from the song's unveiling in the movie. Those who know the movie would be thinking: Why is she singing that song if this isn't the movie and the song was never discovered? Andt those who see this new dub first will not really appreciate the nature of the song, and will probably have its introduction in the movie spoiled when they finally see the movie. Really, the only benefit to having the song appear in the TV series would be as a sort of "tribute" that only existing fans would get. . . but would muddy things up unnecessarily while probably angering purists. All in all, it's a terrible idea. I wish I hadn't thought of it. So. . . good point!

The best example of this is when Hikaru is standing in that field of flowers post-rain-of-death. . . and then he starts daydreaming about Roy flying his old biplane, etc. The scene is very poignant in the original Macross and there is absolutely no dialog as Hikaru just stares off into space and the pollen blows past him. . . and the flashback takes place. In RT, they have Rick Hunter ramble on and on and on throughout the entire scene, basically re-hashing the entire plot of the series for everyone up until that point. A great example of how onne is for kids. The other is not. H

Would anyone object if they messed with things a little bit and had her sing "Do You Remember Love?" from the movie for the big battle episode (Farewell to Tenderness)? I always felt that one of the few things RT did right was to introduce a new song ("We Will Win") at that crucial point in the series that was appropriate to the plot at that point. . . and I'm loathe to admit it, but by RT standards, that song wasn't too terribly bad. I was a bit disappointed watching SDF Macross for the first time when that point arrived and we merely got another freakin' dose of "My Boyfriend is a Pilot", etc. Instead of something dramatic and uplifting, it was time for "Kyun kyun! Kyun kyun!". . . I'm sure the purists would howl. But I think it might be cool if they did it. (no, there is no word that they are even considering this. This is all from my fevered little imagination.) H Edit: Some clarification of song titles and sources.

Oh. . . that. Thanks! Now stop snooping! Actually, I'm embarrassed that my site looks so plain now. So, don't judge the design too harshly. I upgraded the back-end. . . which necessitated a change to the front-end. . . . and I've just never been able to find a skin (or design one) that I like as much as the custom design I did for my prior site's incarnation. But, maybe knowing that people other than my regulars (both of them) are dropping by will motivate me to finally take care of it. Best, H P.S. JBO, I really, really wish I hadn't just googled "Goatse Guy." Seriously, people, don't do so if you value your innocence. There are certain things --once seen-- that you can't "unsee."

That is the Global one. And to be honest, I found it sorta. . . pointless? I'm more interested in the "Lost Two Years" one myself. But, after sending my email address, I have yet to receive it. H

Ah! It's no fun if it doesn't sneak up on you! The attachment gives way too much warning. . . BOO-YAH! Hehe, I actually have it on my (currently undergoing redesign, ugly) site here. I wonder if Google has picked up on it there yet?

Keith. You're just being wilfully obtuse. The "original work" is in Japanese for a Japanese audience. When it is translated, it is altered. . . and try as you might, as long as you aren't (very) fluent in Japanese, you will never appreciate the artist's "original intent" whether you watch it through dubs or subs.Now, you can say one is closer to it than the other. . . but to bash dubs so vociferously (and, by extension, those who like them) while simultaneously putting subs on a pedestal of perfection is just ridiculous. Standard disclaimer: Once again, I prefer subtitles. I like to read the translation while still getting the original voice actors' tone and inflection. But, I'm finding the anti-dub elitism here to be somewhat comical.

Okay. It's official. There's no reasoning with you. I'm picturing you holding your hands over your ears and rythmically repeating: "Subtitles are perfect! They change nothing!" And it does you a whole helluva lot of good when you can't understand Japanese, eh? Oh good! The "original context" is there for the three or four people who buy the english english subtitled version of the anime and speak Japanese! Woohoo! Of course, if you speak Japanese, why would you buy the english subtitled version to begin with? Standard disclaimer: Once again, I prefer subtitles. I like to read the translation while still getting the original voice actors' tone and inflection. But, I'm finding the anti-dub elitism here to be somewhat comical. H

As anyone even basically familiar with the rigors of translation will tell you. . . something is always lost in translation. When you watch a translated work, you're not seeing it on its own "merits" as you put it. Now, I was obviously being sarcastic in demonstrating my point because I really don't expect all of us to learn Japanese. My point, however, is that the line you draw seems rather arbitrary as both means of delivering the Japanese language to non-Japanese speakers affects the artist's original intent and you could argue that you're no longer enjoying the anime on it own "merits" in either case. Yes, a dub alters more, and I prefer subtitles. . . but I'm not about to go around bashing those who like dubs because subtitles are more "pure" and "proper." Perhaps you need a newer DVD player? Dubs do not always replace the original Japanese. DVDs have the ability to have multiple audio tracks. And, so, again, as long as they provide both subtitles/Japanese and a dubbed english track, I really don't think you should be complaining. But I'm sure you will anyways. H

Having heard Mari speak english quite a bit at the last MWCON, I think she just might be able to pull it off as her english is very good. Though, part of me is worried because she still has a bit of an ESL (English as 2nd language) intonation when she speaks. Though, that might be fine for the character if we just assume that Minmay has an accent as well. I was already going to pick this up. Now I'll probably pre-order it. The article alludes to some cool extras too. H

Personally, I think that translating anime into english via any means ruins the artistic integrity of of the anime. Who's to say that they are getting the subtitles right or truly reflecting the tone and nuances of the dialog? Anyone who wants to enjoy anime the proper way should learn Japanese. Otherwise, you're just not appreciating it on its own "merits." H Edit: I was going to leave it smiley-less and let y'all just figure it out. But some clown will always get the wrong idea. So, yes, people: That's sarcasm.

The irony of a RT fan getting all bent out of shape about them changing things to suit the sequel just cracks me up. Apparently, it's okay to change the series to cram them into Robotech. But changing Robotech to cram on a sequel is just plain out of bounds. Why would you expect them to have any more respect for the story and continuity of Robotech than they did for Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada when they originall butchered those series? H

Sorta what I was saying. Except people actually still listen to Sundown. H

I can see only one good reason for dubbing. . . if you want the title to break out of its niche and become more mainstream. Most people in the U.S. abhor subtitling unless it's for a cool alien language from the other side of the galaxy. Now, why HG has decided to suddenly re-dub Macross is anyone's guess. I doubt they really think that Macross --as dated as it is-- can become wildly popular again in its own right. Personally, I don't understand why people get pissy about there being a dub as long as the Japanese (w/ english subtitles) is also included. More choice is always good. A dub would only bother me if it supplants the subtitles on the DVDs.

You've dug yourself quite a hole there. And I think you know it. To say that you always assume that you are shown everything there is to see unless you are actively told otherwise via explicit narration. Wow. That's just sorta scary. I'm really sorta at a loss as to how you go about understanding most of the media that you watch. Story-tellers often give you a "sense" of what's going on in a larger scale. In battle scenes, they show four guys getting mowed down in order to give you the sense of a lot more of it happening elsewhere (without you having to be told). When a flood strikes, a movie shows a few people running and screaming to give you the impression that it's happening all over. They don't need to show it. When the Macross is battling the Zentraedi, they show 2-3 valkyries destroyed because they know you'll take that as an indication that it's happening all over the place (without have having to be told). And, I find it interesting that you addressed each of my points above except the example of the Macross episode of Bye-Bye Mars. Here's one other point. . . have you considered that the people re-envisioning Mospeada as Robotech Part 3 would have liked to have shown the rest of the fleet destroyed (including the SDF-4). . . except they couldn't because it didn't friggin' exist in the animation?!? Ya know, because there really is no SDF-4 or rest of the fleet in Mospeada?!? Do you think, in Mospeada, that the fleet isn't intended to be shown as totally destroyed? Given that the Regis is shown to have that much power, and you see capital ships destroyed by her, does it not make sense to believe the fleet was entirely destroyed unless we are told otherwise? And if it makes sense in Mospeada, why does it not make sense in Robotech? Because you have a novel that has been disavowed that gives you a list of the ships and you didn't specifically see someone yell: "Oh no! There goes the McKinney! And the Macek! Oh God! They got the SDF-4! They're all gone!!!!" Bottom line: Nobody can prove that the whole fleet was destroyed. You can't prove that it wasn't (based on that image alone). I'm willing to accept the former. You seem unwilling to accept the latter. H Edit: Having not seen RT Part 3 for over a decade, I concede that in the RT version of things, at lease some ships survived, since they needed to twist things that way so that something was left to go hunt Admiral Hunter with. . . but to look at that image and state: "Look, that's exactly how many were lost. Case closed. I'm right. You're Wrong." I'm sorry, that's just assinine. Edit: Your own words: They lost "at least 3 divisions." Why the "at least." You should know exactly how many they lost by that image!!! Seems pretty concrete to me. After all to either side of what that camera is showing, absolutely nothing is happening. It's just empty space.

See, that's where you clowns lose me. You can't look at that image, count things up, and then state definitively the casualty figures for the fleet and then proceed to tell someone that they are definitely wrong and need to get their eyes checked based on your interpretation of it. What the animators show you there could be all there is to see, or it could be representative of what's happening to the entire fleet. Or, to put it another way. . . if we, as viewers, only see three valkyries get destroyed in Bye-Bye Mars, is it then safe to state matter-of-factly that the Macross only lost three valkyries during that engagement? Of course not! But what is really interesting is that The Robotech Masters are somehow involved in The Lord of the Rings. I had no idea that the "return of the Shadow" so often mentioned in Tolkien had anything to do with Robotech. I thought the word shadow, used by the Regis and by Tolkien simply meant "influence" or "dominion". . . I now see that I was obviously in error. It must always refer to the Robotech Masters. I would argue, even outside of Robotech. Regardless, this thread has to be the biggest fanboy fest since the Star Wars Episode III discussions. H

Well, when I do that, I get 4. When you do it, you get 268.2 and then assert boldy that it's really the only reasonable conclusion.

Uh, he added that line (and the other 90% of his post) more than an hour after I posted. When I wrote my post, his post was only one sentence (the first one). Everything else was edited in later. As for "derailing". . . compared to some other posts in this thread which call names and basically get rude, I think that's a bit unfair.

I think what you're not taking into account however, is that about 95% of the people here think that Macross would be better off if Robotech would disappear. If Harmony Gold somehow, some day, would suddenly announce that it is divesting Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada of the artificial Robotech continuity (it no longer being necessary since it was only introduced due to American broadcast requirements), let "Robotech" die, and then do an adult-oriented dub and release of Macross without all the strained links into the other two unrelated series and kidd-ified dialogue, a lot of people here would be thrilled. Now, that will never happen. But, "saving" Robotech is the last thing most people here want to do. We'd rather see Robotech disappear so that Macross can be appreciated in its pure form without all the confusion, misconceptions, and mangled continuity that is inherent with tacking on two unrelated series.

Holy crap EXO! That's amazing. I'm told I have a freaky memory for prior threads here, but that's truly impressive. H