Hurin

I wouldn't sweat the color too much yet. We've seen time and time again what digital photography and post-processing can do to the colors of our beloved valks. Remember when the first pictures of the 1/48 FAST Packs looked like they were baby-blue? H

Or the GBP. . . or the Max 1A TV. . . or the Cannon Fodder. . . or the Kakizaki TV. . . or the Kakizaki DYRL. . . My mone is on CF. But, well. . . it's silly to say anything for certain right now. Not that that will stop anyone. H

Ah yes. But of course, I didn't see this thread before I saw your thread there. "Yamato 1/48 Valkyries". . . you'd think Max and Milia would deserve better. H

crap. Nevermind. Someone posted it. Though their subject heading leaves something to be desired Looks like my errant new topic has been assimilated into this one. Cool. At least all my linking won't go to waste. Draykov over at the TMP Anime Forums has pointed out that HLJ has the Pre-orders up for The Max and Milia TV-scheme 1/48 VF-1Js. Apparently, they will ship with FAST Packs. Though, of course, a non-FAST Pack version may be made available. Looks like Max in April. Milia in March. Though, of course, I wouldn't bet on those release dates. Pretty cool. H

It was explored quite a bit in the novels, role-playing game documentation, and other pieces. Though, not explicitly in the original series episodes themselves. Then again, Macross, until recently, hasn't been explicit about these things until recently either. My only point is that Star Trek did not rip these things off. It's not exactly a terribly original or hard-to-conceive idea to begin with. I remember reading about the "Preservers" in the early eighties when I was (sadly) a Star Trek fan. People always want to believe that their favorite show/book/movie is the wellspring for all good things. . . and anything else similar had to be derivative. I remember when the ST:TNG crowd was all up-in-arms over Star Trek V "stealing" the theme music from the Next Generation TV series. Yet, they were so ignorant of their own favorite show that they didn't realize that the music for the TV series was adapted from the theme to the first Star Trek Movie. H

Uh. . . I'm pretty sure you know this. . . but Star Trek has been around since 1967. And, the concept of the "preserver" civilization that went around seeding the galaxy with humanoids was conceptualized long before Macross hit the airwaves nearly two decades later. H

Back in the day, there was a site done by someone very cool (name espapes me). He basically had every color scheme ever seen in DYRL and TV. . . and they were all done very well. I haven't been able to find the site. But there were links on the old MW board (which is now down). The site was very basic. As in, just an index of image files that you clicked on. Each one looked like a schematic/line art. . . but there was one for each color scheme. Is that site still around? Does anyone know where it is? Thanks! H

As with all things in a free market, the price isn't influenced (solely) by manufacturing costs. But, rather, how much the market is willing to pay. Yamato (like any other manufacturer) has factored in demand against various price points until they reached a sweet spot where profit will be maximized (they hope). You can disagree with that determination. But just pointing to its "cost" isn't indicative of price. If they make only 500 and sell them for $1,000 each, that makes more money ($500,000) then selling 12,000 at $40. I trust that Yamato has done their homework on something like this. H

I'd pay $1000 for a 1:1 Roy TV version helmet. So I could set it on my coffee table like Hikaru. H

Or, maybe you're just not ultra-picky. Now, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with being ultra-picky. If someone is bothered by the head seam, that's just fine. I just hope anyone who is considering buying a 1/48 (and thus contributing to the liklihood of more being produced) will realize that the the severity of these flaws is open to interpretation and is totally subjective. Personally, I have two original release Fockers, and while there is a head seam, it never even occurred to me to give a d*mn. They look great to me. And I actually consider myself to be pretty darn picky! Anyways, again, I don't mean to belittle those who are bothered by the flaws. I just hope everyone takes long lists like those posted above with a grain of salt. While flaws like that may bother some, a lot of other people may not even notice. Hurin

Give it time. My 1/60s (and even 1/55s) still seemed cool for a while after I got my first 1/48s. But now, I'm considering selling them. Now, obviously, this won't be the case with everyone. But it was my experience. H

Because you took the bate and immediately starting calling her names, and gradually starting calling names and sprouting profanity just as much as her. So, you both went to the gutter. When that happens, all things being equal (you're both screaming profanities and/or calling names), people will default to the person who seems to be on their side were the topic actually being discussed at all anymore. That's my theory. . . but dude, you need to chill. I appreciate you trying to help me. . . but you've done vastly more harm than good. And, in case you hadn't noticed, I'm the guy who also wanted a response from Max. And, to my mind, he has provided one. While I don't think it's entirely satisfactory or genuine, he's not obligated to say any more. H

Crap. I need sleep. I'm putting the computer games away and am going to crash. I totally f'ed this last bit of posting up by skimming and missing way too much before opening my trap. Then, while actually responding, I missed Max actually taking the time to give a somewhat decent response. While I still think it's disingenuous and that he's conveniently twisting terse and obviously inflammatory five-word sentences into well-thought-out thirty-word paragraphs and then wondering just how in the world anyone could have missed what "ANAL!" meant. . . I guess I just have to take him at his word. I'm done. I've said my piece. People accept Max for who he is. . . and he is chosen to grace me with a somewhat decent response which I "should be pleased with." A blessing! A blessing from the Lord! God be praised! I'm truly sorry I ever brought it up. And now that Jemstone and DR are hurling profanities at each other. . . it's getting out of hand. So, if anyone wants to lock this, I promise to not throw a hissy fit. H

Seriously dude. Trolls love this stuff. So I fully expected Max to "jump for joy" (as he put it) when he saw all the attention he's getting. Classic trolling. . . EDIT: These two responses were written before I saw the much longer response by Max bove. Obviously, some of my invective is somewhat robbed of its purpose now that he has actually spared more than a few words to explain things. And none of them were "ANAL!" H

Okay. . . since DestroidRage is busy making an ass out of himself (hey! That's my job!). . . I'll just close up with is. . . EDIT: I take back the "making an ass out of himself". . . I was skimming through Jemstone and DestroidRage's little exchange and got a bit muddled in the head while directing most of my attention to Max's non-posts. I apologize DR. My bad. EDIT #2: Ya know what, now that I've read closely I think I'm going to put the DR "making an ass of himself" back in. . . dude, all she did was was stick up for Max a little bit and you took the bait and ran with it. . . started calling her a stooge. . . and then we were off to the races. . . she may have thrown around profanities, but you had no compunction about jumping into the sewer with her. Dude, get some soap for that mouth. Both of you. I know it's ironic for me to be saying this. . . but don't take the bait so easily man! Max: You still don't address your comments and obvious disingenuousness in any convincing way. You still seem to claim that you were actually trying to have a conversation. That's laughable. But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. As for "only two" people really having a problem with you. . . I suggest you go back and read more closely. Most people seem to be saying: "Yeah, he's a prick, but so what. . ." That doesn't mean they don't think you're a prick, they just don't see the point in getting all worked up about it. I guess I only did because your prickishness was once directed at me for no real reason, and since I've been hyper-aware of it when I see it directed towards others. Apparently, people here think it's fine to come into a thread, post something inflammatory and totally without merit just to be a jerk. . . and then accuse those who react of "being too sensitive." Whatever. . . sounds like classic troll behavior to me. I never really expected you to address the substance of what I was saying. I expected you to hide behind the "I'm too cool" facade. And, now that someone handed you the "sense of humor" line, you're even more free to just dismiss this all as the ungrateful masses not appreciating the power and wisdom that is you. I thought MacrossWorld was classier. I expect tolerance of heated rhetoric during actual arguments and debates when people are trying to make a point. But tolerance for classic trolling behavior? I think I'm beginning to understand now: Do not criticize MW in public (it should be kept to PM). . . what other forums do isn't relevant (apparently MW can't learn from how other boards or admins operate. . . or even learn from their mistakes. . . they're infallible and don't want to hear it.). . . and people can pop into threads to call names and insult all those partaking in it, hell that's encouraged because in some demented way, it's funny. Calling users "Dickface" is encouraged. Okay. It all makes sense now. I'll go back to talking about toys and lurking around. But I've definitely learned my lesson: Don't try to point out basic incivility and trolling. Don't try to possibly make this place a less annoying place to be. That might interfere with someone's "sense of humor." Best Regards, H P.S. Before you give yourself an over-inflated sense of your own importance in my life, I started my Holiday Vacation yesterday. I'm just playing some CivIII and checking occasionally to see what else pops up. If anyone here needs to get over himself, it's you.

I want to be very clear here: Max Jenius did not close the thread when he came by to pronounce the thread lame (and "ANAL!"). Rather, he just came by, made his pronouncement, and then left the thread open. He was not carrying out any moderating duties. He was not behaving as a Mod. Rather, he was behaving as an ass and a troll. He only closed the thread last night (three months later) after making yet another comment (". . .Dickhead. . ."). But I care much less about that. Now, of course, he's dissembling things so that somehow we're supposed to interpret this as some attempt at conversation. Utterly lame. But then again, I'm sure many think all of this is. H

Point taken about the PM box. Though, I hope you can appreciate my desire to continue this in public since Max had done so to such an extent, and then asked me (the "dickhead") to send him my thoughts via PM only after thoroughly expressing his views publicly in both relevant threads. Again, I was going to PM him, until I saw his post in the thread that he closed. That just seemed utterly classless to me (the comment, not so much the closing). Question: What exactly happens when you use the "Report this post" feature. To whom does that go? H

Okay. . . one more time. I don't care at all that the thread was closed. The only effect that had was that I took things over here (after deciding not to PM Max considering he didn't extend the same courtesy to me, twice. . . while referring to me as "dickhead"). The only thing that bothers me about the thread being closed was that Max was so crass as to go back, post his crap three months later, then close the thread. But that thread was never near and dear to my heart. I couldn't care less that it's closed. I used the "report this thread" feature immediately, three months ago. I received not one response from anybody. And yet, Max claims that. . . . . . was intended to begin a conversation. Odd that he never looked for a response! And, that's also what bothers me about this. Max is actually claiming that this was his attempt to "understand the purpose behind your posting so that perhaps you would be able to make me see things your way." He actually expects me (and you, since he posted this in public) to believe that this was a valid attempt at engaging me in conversation. Does anyone really believe that? Is nobody bothered by such a disingenous attempt at re-writing what happened and turn it around on the person to whom he directed the invective?: "Instead you chose to get upset, that's too bad." Puh-leaze. How about writing: "Am I missing something? These animation errors are commonplace. Is there something special about this one?" But, I'm going to say this one last time: I don't care that he closed that topic last night. That topic was dead. I never said that closing the topic was a major issue. I just pointed out the classless and crass way in which it was done. I think it's funny how everyone is getting tunnel-vision on the closing of that thread. H

Again: My primary beef isn't with the fact that he closed that thread or "mod'd" me (three months after the fact). . . Rather, my beef is just with him being an ass. Mod or not. But, because he can be such an ass, and is in a position of authority on these boards, it is yet more annoying. And, left unchecked, this sort of behavior by someone in a position of authority can poison the atmopshere of the forums. Heck, at this point, I don't even consider myself to have been "mod'd". . . I just consider myself to have been pissed off by an arrogant jerk who happens to be a Mod. I just hope that someone whom he respects might just have a talk with him. . . no need for all this impeachment stuff. H

Okay okay okay. If so many of you think it's just a sense of humor. . . I guess I'll have to take you all at your word. But for the life of me, I don't see the humor in Max's "ANAL!" post. If someone could explain the humor there, I'd love to hear it. But, as they say, if it has to be explained, maybe it isn't in very good humor. I mean, just yesterday we have a thread where a lot had already been said by what seemed just about everyone, regarding who was leaving Secret Elf stuff on Mechamechanic's door. A good time seemed to be being had by all. . . so of course, Max drops in. . . not to close the topic, not to say anything really, except: And that's. . . it. Now, does anyone really think that he is actually asking why it matters? In the same way that he was really asking me what I "hoped to achieve?" Or rather, was he (not so) subtley saying that he considered this topic inconsequential and beneath him, and that everyone who was interested in it was stupid as well. . . My guess would be the latter, especially based upon prior behavior. Again, anyone want to point out the humor? I don't feel like I've picked a fight with him. Rather, three months ago, he went out of his way to pick a fight with me. . . and only made it worse yesterday by his posts on the matter. So, I responded, just as I would with any MWer. Except of course, this one happens to be a Mod. And, no. Being courteous may not be in the job description. But, shouldn't it be expected of all members unless reason is given to not be courteous? Especially for Mods? Yeah, and I'd go after any other MWer who acted like this (especially when they directed it towards me) just as I'm doing now. It's only a big deal because I posted it in the feedback forum. . . because he gave me no other choice (by closing one topic and by the mods threatening to close the other one if Max or the Mods were discussed further). For the record, I did not intend this post to become an "impeach Max" thread. I used no such language and was not attempting to put this to a "vote." I simply wanted to put down a record of the behavior in the hopes that someone consequential might notice and perhaps also notice a pattern developing. . . and then Destroids Rage took things a step further. Though, to be honest, I definitely would not be disappointed if Max was given a "time out" until he learned some basics rules of civility. I admit that I haven't always been a perfect angel in the forums and have engaged in some heated debates. But at least when I get my ire up, there is at least some evidence that I was provoked. I don't just waltz into threads and try to make everyone partaking in it feel like a moron with brief, dismissive, non-constructive posts. While I don't intend this to become a "Impeach Max" debate, I will say this: I think it does harm to the atmosphere of a community when someone in power is considered to be an "arrogant jerk" by a signifigant portion of its members not because of how he handles his duties, but simply for how he behaves in general. Uh, I've been known to point out (via links) prior posts by others to try to indicate that there is a pattern of behavior. Skull-1 in the toys forum comes to mind. He was not a mod. How is this different? This is only different because Max happens to be a mod, and has (seemingly) intentionally pissed me off. . . and I'm forced to bring my beef with him here because he closed the first topic and other mods threatened to close the "Secret Elf" thread. I don't "expect" him to behave the way I want. I'm just pointing out that he can be a real jerk. And, as I said, the fact that he is a mod only makes it more annoying. As for this whole being ungrateful thing. . . we all owe Shawn, Graham, and the Mods a debt of gratitude for their efforts and outlays of time and even money (for some) in order that they can provide us with such a great community. I love Macross World (well, most aspects of it) and will always be grateful to those who make it possible. But, I fail to see how all this hard work equates to me needing to overlook another member (who happens to be a Mod) acting like a jerk even when he's not acting as a moderator. You can't have it both ways: People can't say that I am only pissed off because he's a Mod and that if he was just a normal user, we'd just disagree and it'd be done. . . and then say that it's unfair or somehow unseemly to hash things out over here with him (after being forced over here by mod activity) because he works so very hard, and I'm therefore ungrateful. I'm treating him just like everybody else. . . and asking him why he thinks it's appropriate to drop in and drop little "F-- You, Losers" bombs as he does. Look, they all work very hard. But in working very hard, sometimes a "bunker mentality" takes place. I've seen this as a moderator/admin, and I've seen it in my former profession as a phone tech support rep. Gradually, all the users become annoyances to be tolerated. . . because all they do is whine. . . hence, we get a post like this in response to someone just politely asking for a bit more info when a topic is closed without an obvious reason: Hmmm, nice. And please note the intentional quotation marks around lives. . . nice subtle way of calling everyone who disagrees "losers". . . without quite saying so. But, of course, I'll just be accused of reading into it too much and not getting his "sense of humor." Now, in Max's defense, later in that thread, he did actually come back, explain himself further, and engage in a very polite and interesting discussion of Mod duties. In fact, it was one of those rare times where I thought: "Wow, this guy can actually be kind of cool." All the Simpsons quotes also help. Anyways, as I've said, I'm not trying to get an impeachment vote going here. . . I'm just bringing my beef with Max here because I was left with no other venue, and I wasn't about to just start PMing him after he started publicly criticizing me, and then began locking threads after doing so. I wouldn't let his snide-ass comments slide if he were just a regular MWer (and I doubt any of you would either). So why should I be expected to let them slide now? If this truly can be handled as just an argument between two MWers, I'm sure it'll probably come down to this: Some will just say I'm a whiney loser. And some will say that Max can be an arrogant jerk and that he does deserve to be called out as one. . . even if many are too timid to do so given his position. At that point, maybe we'll reach the point of agreeing to disagree as most normal MW disagreements turn out. All I know is that I've said my piece, and since I'm leaving town tomorrow for the holidays, I most likely won't be saying any more. Hurin Milhouse: Yes, we have order! But at what price!?!

While I consider it incredibly lame to respond here --disengenously in my opinion--, then respond even more inappropriately in the Exhibit A thread (and then close it!). . . and then ask me to reply privately(!?!). . . in the interests of not getting this popular thread closed, I've taken my beef over to the Feedback Forum. Best Regards, Hurin

From here: Max Jenius, First, that's pretty weak to post your thoughts publicly, then ask me to respond privately. Even so, I was willing to do so. . . but then I went back here to look at the old quotes and found that you had even posted more there (using the term "dickface" no less). . . and then closed that topic!?! Here's what you said over there before closing the topic. . . real classy. Real fair. So, let me get this straight: After I ask everyone to stop criticizing the mods in this thread so that it won't be closed, you go to the original thread, essentially call me "dickface", say that I'm too sensitive, and close the thread after it had stood open and unanswered for three months?!? Then, you go to the thread on which I had just asked everyone not to criticize you, criticize me publicly, and then tell me to respond privately? What type of jacked up s--- is that?!? Okay, here we go. . . starting from the top: Coming into a thread and saying only. . . . . . isn't exactly a decent way of making "an effort to understand the purpose behind your posting so that perhaps you would be able to make me see things your way." First, you shout "ANAL". . . which isn't exactly indicative of you having an open mind about what was posted. Then you ask what is (to my mind) obviously a rhetorical question intended to demonstrate that you can't possibly conceive of this thread being the least bit interesting to you. Personally, I think it's laughable that you are now trying to portray your terse and rude post as though it was some sort of entreaty to have a conversation. Especially since you didn't ask anything other than, essentially, "so what? Oh, and you're anal." Since when is "so what?" conducive to a conversation. You knew exactly what my point was in that thread. I thought people might find the animation error interesting. The intent to your post was obviously to assert that I and those responding were anal and morons for finding it interesting. To me, it looks like you're trying --in a very disengenuous way-- to massage things retroactively to try to make it look less like you were just being an arrogant and condescending jerk. Yet despite your claim that you were trying to start a conversation, you didn't respond to my post at all until tonight (three months later), at which point you essentially refer to me as "dickface", tell me I'm being too sensitive, and then close that topic. Again, here it is: Uh, "dickface?" Seriously? You consider that appropriate? Oh, but wait, then you called me "dude" and told me to let the good times roll. . . so I guess everything is cool. . . right? Uh, no. And, which is it? Are you singling me out or not? Again, you said: So, how are you asking me anything if what you wrote wasn't "singling me out?" There is some intellectual inconsistency there that isn't easily explained. Am I to assume that (as you stated) you were asking me what I "hoped to achieve" and attempting to engage me in a meaninful conversation. . . yet somehow the preceding "ANAL!" was not directed towards me at all? Uh. . . sure. Further, I was the person who started the thread, and your post immediately followed my concluding comment. So, was I not to assume that it was directed at me? Do you actually expect anyone to buy that? Dude, I'll just come right out and say it: You're the closest thing I've ever seen to a troll actually moderating a discussion board. If anyone else just popped into a thread to say: "ANAL! What did you hope to achieve?". . . everyone in that thread would be like: "Dude, F--- off. Who asked you?" But since you're a mod, we have to sit here and take it. Or, at least, we feel like we have to do so because, between your bitter, arrogant attitude and your and Roy Fokker's signature, there isn't exactly a sense that talking back to the admins is tolerated (not that I've ever seen Roy do anything wrong. But that signature can give the humorless among us pause). Of course you are. But as a board moderator, you also have a responsibility to not blatantly antogonize your users. Let me be very clear: You were not involved in this thread. You did not post anything while it was active. Rather, you passed by after it had ran its course, and then came in to pronounce your arrogant judgement on its content and those who had partaken in it. You didn't offer anything to the conversation, nor did you ask any real question. Despite your (quite unconvincing and over-late) claims to the contrary, you just wanted to pontificate on the asininity of those in this thread for engaging in a conversation that you did not personally find interesting. As a moderator, you have every right (and the obligation) to moderate the boards. But that doesn't entail adding your tag-line commentary to the end of every thread. Tell me, can I just drop by every thread I've seen and drop lines such as: "Moronic! I can't believe you all wasted your time!" or "Boring! What is the point here?!?" How long do you think it would take before I was labeled a troll and told to go to hell? Of course you have a right to an opinion and being a moderator in no way negates that. Yet, being a moderator doesn't give you the right to be a condescending jerk. In fact, as a former moderator of several discussion boards myself, I always thought the exact opposite. I always felt my role as moderator/admin obligated me to be more polite, more fair, and more accomodating to everyone. . . especially to those with whom I disagreed. Indeed, I always went out of my way to make sure that I never even appeared to be having a power-trip or to be abusing my position. I didn't treat the users of the forum as though they were annoyances merely to be tolerated. I didn't treat them like they were intruding on a private club where anything that displeased me would be ridiculed (or deleted/closed). Nor did I butt my beak into threads to comment unless I actually had something substantive to say. And even then, I was always careful to not ruffle any feathers. Essentially, you need to ask yourself this: Would you really come into threads and make snide, trolling comments like that if you weren't a moderator? If so, well, you lack basic civility. If not, then you've let your moderating powers go to your head. . . and you lack basic civility. Truth be told, when I first saw your "ANAL!" post, I just couldn't believe anyone other than a troll would write that. I didn't at first notice that you were a moderator. Then I went back and looked at many of your other posts and got a feel for just the sort of posts you like to make. It was quite enlightening. The more I think about it, and the more I look at your posts, the more I realize that I don't really even have a problem --for the most part-- with how you carry out your moderating duties. It's what you say when you're not actively using your moderating powers that are often the most arrogant, annoying, and offensive. So really, the problem isn't that you are a jerk when you are being a moderator. . . the problem is that --speaking as a forum admin-- it is generally not a good idea to enlist jerks and/or trolls as your moderators. So you see, I don't have a problem with you being a moderator. I just have a problem with you acting like a jerk. The fact that you are a moderator just makes it all the more galling. I don't expect to win this fight. Nor do I expect you to actually reflect upon anything I've said here. I fully expect you to dismiss me as yet another "whining, annoying" user who just doesn't understand what a thankless job you do. Though I doubt it will ever come to pass, I hope that (if this thread is allowed to stay), it will serve as a reminder to some who might already have noticed a pattern to your arrogant and borderline-abusive posts. And unlikely as it may seem, maybe someday someone in a position of authority on these boards will take you aside and tell you that perhaps it's time to let someone less embittered and more respectful of the community members as a whole take over moderating duties. Cuz man. . . you may think that you're the brave, firm hand of authority standing athwart these boards and holding back the tides of chaos. But really, to me, you just seem to really think you're cooler, smarter, and better than just about everybody else here. PM me with your thoughts. Hurin P.S. You said above that you do not ban people for disagreeing with mods or even being a-holes. Please prove it and let this thread (and me!) stay.

Guy's let's not even mention the mods or the legitimacy of this thread again. They've allowed it to stay open, so let's just be happy with that. If you have anything else to say to the mods, there is a feedback area. Though I think it's best to let this go considering that this topic is open. H

No, please don't close the topic. I'll be good! H

Hell, if I were one of your friends. . . I'd be staking out your front door to take whatever had been dropped off. Mmmmmm, M&Ms. Hurin P.S. I'm just kidding. Stealing is wrong.