David Hingtgen

Hunh. So, MP-05=Anime Starscream? We can hope/beg/plead.

A quick googling gives a Harley-Davidson Fat Boy for T2.

A point I read on another board was that Thundercats had a pretty large and fleshed out mythology--both their own, and "Third Earth". Plenty of places and legends to explore (or re-explore)--no need to ditch it all and come to Earth. Third Earth was a neat place as cartoon settings go. Especially Mumm-Ra's pyramid. Though the Ro-Bear Berbil jungle village has to go...

Just in case we get some more Thundercats fans here---I found this on the net long ago and kept it--I believe it to be the actual animation model sheet for the Sword of Omens. If not, it's 100x more accurate than it has any right to be:

I think the 11 battroid ends up a bit taller due to transformation. IIRC when I had my VF-11 it was larger than my 1/60, even at 1/64 or 1/68 scale or whatever. I'm going to get out my Macross Designs Works and M7 TIAS books tonight and go over the VF-11B, C, and D inch-by-inch tonight and really check for differences. Though I think the Jamming Birds VF-11D is considered modified kinda like Basara's, and might be more than just a standard D with new FAST packs. (AFAIK no "standard" VF-11D has been seen) Though the D's head sure seems "UN Spacy" and not "custom". As for the VF-14: AFAIK the only version is the M3 one, "retroactively" designed from the FZ-109 in M7. I do like the FZ-109A though, but it uses way more anime magic. The FZ-109F/G is just ugly, and uses more anime magic than the YF-19 and 21 combined. I just played M3 tonight to check some stuff---it's interesting, as they don't "cheat" at all on any of the transformations---though they don't have to worry about hinges nor pixel-thin attachment points, and parts can magically "slide" through each other--they don't allow any shape/size changing---no shortening nosecones or magically rounding-out legs. You get a pretty skinny YF-19 battroid, but you know it WORKS. And the VF-14 stays quite proportionate, which gives me hope for it existing as a toy some day. They transform at warp speed though, the VF-14 and 9 are just insane to watch.

I still say make a VF-22 out of it--then it'd be the one and only (and best) transforming VF-22 out there.

Yes, and several people have come to the conclusion that that is basically "sculptor's personal artistic choice"--there's no reason to do it, every other YF-21 can do a great 3D representation of Kawamori's drawing. Why the D'stance does the head/neck so differently---gotta be how the sculptor wants it, or there's some mechanical/transformational reason we can't figure out that doesn't crop up on other YF-21's. And as always--no need to copy the worst part of the model--just do the arms (and legs!) and we'd have a great YF-21. Gerwalk mode really shows off how well D'stance did the legs.

Oh come on, everyone LOVES attempts to make "American Anime". The major studios are so good at it... "Hope beyond hope" that this doesn't happen.

The D'stance has the arm "fill" the area between the top of the plane and the belly plates. They actually form the sides of the fuselage, rather than being suspended between the upper fuselage and the belly plates. There is 1/20 the gappage that the Yamato has around the arms. And the wingroot is sculpted just so that the shoulder "ball" rotates completely away, actually forming part of the underside of the wing. A little tweaking of the belly plate edges, a little tweaking of the undersides of the wingroots---almost gap-less. I think a key point is that the arms are "fairly constant in diameter and cross-section". Try this one for a shoulder (and arms) pic in fighter mode: http://park1.wakwak.com/~jasshy/CG/21/yf21_fi057.jpg Many more pics of a completed D'stance here: http://park1.wakwak.com/~jasshy/yf21.html Another key thing is the bicep---while every YF-21 has the forearm slide down over the hands to cover them up as well as lengthen the arm for fighter mode, the D'stance also has the same thing happen to the bicep. Frankly, the D'stance blows away any other YF-21 in the "arms in fighter mode" department. The belly plates and arms are just sculpted to fit together so well. It's not perfect, but there's no way it ever could be in real life. Plus a bit different transformation compared to SHE and Yamato---one that follows Kawamori's drawing of the YF-21 transformation closer---check the shoulder drawings. Basically, the Yamato has the arms "hanging around near the belly plates" with huge gaps on all sides, while the D'stance actually has them FORM the sides of the fuselage and sealing off the belly plates, as they should. Again--there's no way to have the arms form perfectly flush fuselage sides like Kawamori draws without serious anime magic, but D'stance came so close most people are very impressed. ::EDIT:: OK, here I've attached the previous pic but I outlined the "shoulder flattened out" in red to show how it fits---a chunk of the wing is actually carved out to make room for it---the "interior" of the shoulder actually makes part of the wing underside in the D'stance. Also, you can see the hollowed-out area in the instructions well--Step 6 (lower left part of the first page of instructions Vinnie posted) right above the "P.CAP" notation. Graham--you've got to admit the D'stance does a far better job at integrating the arms and the belly plates than the SHE or Yamato. And it does it all while still having the legs fit inside that very "skinny" belly bay. The FP Yamato YF-21 had a thinner belly by folding the legs sideways, but the D'stance does that even more so, and eliminates the "open sides" look. And frankly still looks better in every aspect of every mode. (Asides from the head "crown"--but that's easily rectified--just do like the original Yamato did for that) I am more impressed by the D'stance YF-21, than any other "transforming mecha" toy or kit ever. To take Kawamori's "impossible" arms-turn-into-sides-of-the-fuselage transformation and do it that well while retaining a working leg/belly-plate transformation is nothing short of amazing.

Ack, sorry Graham. I know it's not a copy, especially when you compare point by point for shapes. However, there are many features of the transformation as well as overall "sculpting choices to balance fighter vs battroid appearance" which are clearly "closely inspired" by the SHE, and only show up on the SHE/Yamato, and not any other transforming YF-19. In that, it certainly owes a lot of its "heritage" to SHE. The most obvious link I see is the "large folding part that has Tab B at the end". That is pretty unique to the SHE/Yamato, as the Hasegawa one does it very very differently, the Retppu doesn't do it at all. That is frankly the core of the YF-19's transformation (how you fold the foward fuselage to make the torso) and that is what the SHE and Yamato do very similarly. Also how the codpiece is formed--what is done with that area is quite different between the various -19's out there, but the original Yamato and SHE are pretty close. Also the whole "rotating backs of the knees". While that was dispensed with in the VF-19A release, that was clearly "based on" the SHE, which goes along with a very similar (AFAIK) bicep/elbow mechanism.

The VFX white/black/yellow one is not Skull squadron, though it does strike me as closely following the markings of VF-84's F-8's, which was the Vagabond squadron, that would soon become the VF-84 Jolly Rogers which is what Skull Squadron's markings are. So sorta, in a way, yes, but not really. Hard to see, only pic I know of, but there's yellow and black stripes at the tips of the wings and tailfins, a matching fuselage stripe, and a tan nosecone. It is close to most any 1960's Navy scheme that had yellow, but especially close to the Vagabond's F-8's. It could easily be seen as "early Jolly Rogers". And here's the real scheme I think they based it on:

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=24232 Now if they can only use their magical powers to stop the fighting... I'm AMAZED I saw this like 36 hours ago and there hasn't been anything about it on this forum yet. Here's the main part, believe as little or much of it as you like: "WB animation is remaking the Thundercats as an animated TV series. The animation style is whimsical, Americanized-anime, along the lines of Teen Titans. The setting is modern-day Earth, in a major city (possibly LA) The Thundercats are all teenagers. Their leader is Snarf (!) who is now a mystic with a "third" eye. Each of the Thundercats has a weapon with an "Eye of Thunderra" and transformative powers (not just Lion-O) When they aren't fighting evil, the Thundercats play together as a rock band. That's not a typo, or a joke. They are rockin' cats in their present form. Mum-Ra now has wings."

We've already shifted the non-YF-19 stuff to another thread, but eliminating SHE would be hard to do, based on the fact that the original Yamato YF-19 is a direct copy of the SHE, and the new one probably incorporates quite a bit of it. Plus there's already been a lot of comparisons about SHE vs Yamato YF-19 transformation aspects (of which I had quite a rant about the upper intakes). And there's the whole "what other -19's could Yamato do"--notably the VF-19F/S, which SHE has already done a -19A to 19F/S conversion--could Yamato? Would they? Etc. I'm still keeping most new pics posted on the first page of the thread, but there hasn't been anything really worth posting lately (there's a site I'm watching for pics--within 48 hours I expect good stuff). I have considered making a new "pics only" thread, which would allow no discussion. If there's a new post in it, it means there's new pics uploaded in it by Graham or a mod etc. Or official press releases, etc. This thread would then be for discussion. If you want I have a big battroid mode pic. It's the same angle/pose/lighting as all the others we've seen, but it's bigger.

The valk itself is identical. As I said earlier, it's the gunpod (C's have no bayonet, that's the most obvious difference--it's overall smoother and sleeker than the B's) and the nozzles of the booster packs that are different--which is why it'd be so easy for Yamato to do both types. A VF-11B's booster pack has "traditional" round rocket engine nozzles--like the VF-1's, only smaller, with a small fin mounted between them. A VF-11C's booster pack nozzles are square with no fin. Also the C's booster packs have 2 fewer missile launcher ports. Color-wise, the standard VF-11B is medium-dark grey with orange stripes like in M+. Your standard VF-11C is white with black stripes in M7. Though if a new VF-11B comes out, I'll wait for a VFX repaint--I've already owned two in M+ colors, and the VFX scheme is very nice. (White with black and yellow stripes--very 1960's US Navy fighter-esque) If you really want, I could scan some lineart to actually show the gunpod and booster pack difference.

The "purple" pic is a scan of the SHE VF-19F/S painting guide. Here's a quick/bad retouch I did to try to bring it close to how it looked in M7: (it should be even more of a pure royal blue)

I might pin this for a little while, so everyone can see it--a lot of MW'ers just kind of bypass the model section---but they're really missing out, as VF-4's are so rare. Vf_1S---is there any chance you could scan the transformation steps from the instructions? While MW does have them all scanned here: http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/models/she/she_vf4.htm they are quite small. Larger versions would be nice.

It was more like 1/68 I think (maybe 1/64) due to it being too fragile in 1/72--shoulder bars I think. The VF-11 should be a bit smaller than the -19. Definitely larger than the VF-1. It's slightly bigger than a VF-4.

Or since a mass-production one from Yamato would likely use metal, it should be very strong if implemented. Any hobby shop should have fine tubing and rods of aluminum and steel---often used for structural reinforcement for kits, or R/C planes.

That's 10x better than it originally was. Have you considered painting the bare grey plastic so it matches the other gear?

Yup, definitely post in the "Wanted" section--you never know who might have one.

I'm thinking a VF-11C would be an all new release, since the standard B and C schemes are very different. And there's no way they'd pass up the opportunity for another repaint. But it's such an obvious choice---only need a new gunpod, and new nozzles on the booster packs, to make a C from a B. And a D isn't much more work--take the C and add a new head, and new canopy/nose (which with the -11's transformation won't affect anything at all--you could put on Mylene's MAXL front end and it wouldn't affect anything). The issue is the M7 license. Graham's said for years Yamato won't get it, and that creates a problem, as all the good schemes and variants of the -11 and -22 are M7 exclusives. I think the VF-11C has only appeared in M7, with M+ and M3 having the B. I plan on replaying M3 soon to check exactly which variants/schemes appear in it. Only hope is M3--I don't know if Yamato has that license or would be willing to get it, but that would give Max and Milia schemes for almost every valk--including Milia's VF-11 that was also seen in M7. The -11 looks especially good in M&M colors. If only M3 had included the -22 instead of just the -21. (the -19 and -21 were M+ colors only, the only valks in the game not in M&M colors) For those that haven't seen it, here's Milia's VF-11 from M3. I think it was painted identically (or very close) in M7, but I don't have any screen caps of it. Either way, I think it's among he best of the Milia-painted valks. (With -17 and -4 being the worst)

Sorry Azrael, I'm reopening it. I am NOT going to let a thread like this get derailed by "certain elements", as this is exactly how I got my own 48th VF-1J Milia--asking fellow MW'ers if there's going to be a reissue, or any left not on Ebay. But to everyone else---be nice.

Just gotta make the VF-11's fins fold the other way (the way Kawamori designed, not the way the Yamato ones did) and you can have way bigger fins. Combined with folding gear to make the leg bigger inside, and you can easily fix the earlier VF-11's main flaw--the itty-bitty tailfins. That's the main reason I started talking about gear in the YF-19 thread---the original VF-11 toy's fin size was determined by two things: 1. The space the gear inside took up--since the gear well and retracted fins occupied the same area inside the leg. Remember that lowering the gear actually caused the fins to pop open. 2. The fact that Yamato had them fold the wrong way. Now, if they fold them the right way, you can double their size easily. But even twice as big isn't as big as they should be. But if you can get folding gear (doesn't need to compress at all, wouldn't help--simply need a 90 degree twist) then you can make a more shallow well, and have more room for the fin. Though I have been thinking--due to the VF-11's fins being canted out, they also retract angled in---so you may actually want like a 45-degree twist, or even no twise, to get the top of the wheel as far over to one side as possible, to allow the angled fin to fit. (Yes, I've put a lot of thought into how to fit big fins into a VF-11's legs--the most important thing is to fold them Kawamori's way---which is the way I figured out myself years ago, but then discovered recently that's how Kawamori originally drew it--Yamato was just wrong all these years) The YF-19's main gear poses no problems--the gear's small, the legs are huge. The nose-gear however---well, that's more a function of simply having the there in the first place. The only way to get a small belly is to eliminate the gear entirely, as even a small well gets in the way of the transformation due to the "spine" of battroid mode splitting. (or use the ultra-sucky "wheels on the door" that the original Yamato used)

There's a difference between "copying" and "inspiration". Taking a close look at something, then doing something similar--that's not copying. All Yamato really needs is some "inspiration" from the most ingenious parts of it. You gotta admit--there's only so many ways to make a YF-21 transform, and Yamato already has Kawamori's approval to use his design. And the best parts of the D'Stance transformation is what Kawamori already designed into it---it's just that they're the only ones who've implemented them. So it's more a matter of "seeing how to make Kawamori's design work". D'stance can't claim the YF-21's transformation----Kawamori designed it, not them. They can only claim a particular variation, 95% of which is already independently shared with every other transforming YF-21. At the moment, I mainly want pics of the shoulder, and how it goes into the wing/body. That whole area is the key to everything IMHO. Plus the fact that they have done in 3D what I still haven't been able to figure out from Kawamori's drawing of the YF-21's transformation--he draws it like D'stance did it, but I still haven't quite figured out what rotates how. PS--If I had one, I'd probably make a personal casting of the canopy, head and belly plates, so I could alter them to make a VF-22. Then paint it in Milia colors! Based on years of comments from Graham, it seems unlikely Yamato will ever acquire the M7 license, thus no Max and Milia VF-22's.

scand--they were just unfolding, going half-way to GERWALK mode. The old one could that if you wanted--you just had to mostly transform it to fighter, then transform it back without folding the wings. Nani--want me to rename this to the "Future 1/60 valk speculation" thread or something? I think it's a good idea, as opposed to a bunch of dedicated threads for each valk. (I want a VF-14 now, having just looked at it again)