Cobra__
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Everything posted by Cobra__
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What you say is true, except that in Robotech's case HG has been left with ONLY hardcore fans. Robotech has gone out the mainstream for years, seriously except for robotech.com and 2 or 3 sites that nobody at large cares about, Robotech is dead in the public conciousness. It wouldn't be a problem IF HG had the balls to do project by themselves and then try to sell it to tv stations, with all the risks this entails. But they won't. They want the tv stations to commit beforehand and of course this is not going to happen. Not for a tv series that has 60+ episodes. And if you think about it not even the japanese do series that span 60+ episodes anymore. Only Sunrise can do something like that for Gundam and we are looking at 50 episodes not 60 or more. Every other animation studio has gone the 26 episodes route integrating with 1 or 2 ovas and maybe a final movie. Macross Frontier for example. Therefore the idea of doing a multi generational story spanning decades is out the window wether HG realises it or not. Even for a scrooge like company like HG, investing in a 26 episode series could be possible. But more ? Forget it.
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Nice concept, bad execution and horrible CG.
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Why would Unicorn be a special case ? The japanese industry has been reluctant to embrace anime (tv or ova) produced entirely in CG. And thats because viewers/otakus want the feel of 2D. I don't think we will see in the medium term any anime that's completely CG. Not going to happen. Films are a different matter though.
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Because this thread lives in the twilight zone. Technobabble is more interesting than what's going on here.
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What Current Anime Are You Watching Version v4.0
Cobra__ replied to wolfx's topic in Anime or Science Fiction
The original concept art for Mospeada is amazing. You have to wonder why the most audacious designs were never incorporated into the final product. -
It fails me in this thread.
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He didn't create any new models did he ? Changing a name is just that, how can you equate that to the creation of a mechanical design baffles the mind.
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I certainly won't dispute your assessment of Yune. When I was talking about mechanical designers being as good or better than Kawamori I thought about people working on AAA projects such as Gundam or other heavy hitters. Yune is not even in the same class though. Macek never was into mechanical design so how does he enter the picture ?
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This is a lame excuse and has no basis on reality. If the va for a particular character is dead you choose another one.
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@ Gubaba : you should learn to be more flexible. Within the context of the original post it is obvious that I'm referring to Tatsunoko. Now if you're trying to build a case out of nothing be my guest. But you'll be going straight to my ignore list.
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I said Tatsunoko doesn't give a damn how the properties are managed outside japan.
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Kawamori in not the end all to mechanical designs. Macross II didn't have Kawamori on board and the Valkyries were just as breath taking as those of Macross. So Kawamori as good as he is, he is not a god. And other mechanical designers can come up with concepts just as good or better than his. As to your liking only the mechanical designs, good for you, but most people love the Macross franchise on multiple levels not just because of the valkyries. The original was never stolen for christ sake. HG had the rights through Tatsunoko (on the animation and just the animation) and Tatsunoko never stole those rights from BW/Studio. In fact those specific rights were given to Tatsunoko as compensation for coming and helping with the animation of Macross. Ok that Robotech fans can be delusional, but when Macross fans spout such idiocies you're being far more delusional. Robotech fans want more robotech. Many robotech fans equate robotech with macross and what they want in reality is more macross but that is not going to happen thanks to HG f*cking over BW/Studio Nue by trademarking Macross, UN Spacy and the Un Spacy symbol in most countries. Some robotech fans want more robotech but not a mospeada sequel aka Mospeada II The Shadow Chronicles. Unfortunately HG can't deliver on any project so here we are.
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Well HG actually has the rights to mooch Southern Cross and Mospeada all they want curtesy of Tatsunoko, and the Macross animation as well. If Tatsunoko actually cared about the way Southern Cross, Macross and Mospeada were treated in the west they would recind the license but they don't. Who is to blame for this ? The frakkING JAPANESE. Its not as if HG somehow fraked the japanese over. The japanese made a contract that actually gave HG the rights that people now deem are illegal. The root cause of this stems in japan not in the us. Rebooting a franchise is easy, its done all the time. The only problem is understanding what to throw away and what to keep (and in robotech's case its throwing away 99% and keeping only the protoculture aspect) and investing a lot of money in coming up with new art concepts that don't smell like recycled 30 year old animation. HG just doesn't have the @@ to carry a reboot through plain and simple and they won't as long as Tatsunoko continues to license them the various properties.
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Where are these many robotech fans that want to incorporate anything macross into robotech that you speak of ? Some hard data would be useful don't you think ? In any case whatever the fans want, BW/Studio Nue will never grant so its a dead issue anyway isn't it ? From a Robotech perspective, f*ck Macross, f*uck Southern Cross and f*uck Mospeada. All hail to protoculture instead. Unfortunately Tommy and the thinking brains (are there any left at HG ? ) can't grasp the reality. Well if only one series has to be raped let it be Macross. Why taint masterpieces such as Eureka 7, Code Geass or gasp Gurren Lagann ?
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What Current Anime Are You Watching Version v4.0
Cobra__ replied to wolfx's topic in Anime or Science Fiction
The original Mospeada was a mediocre series even for 1983. The only difference between Mospeada and its Robotech equivalent is that the japanese version actually makes sense. In the Robotech version you never really understand why the invid troups leave Scott Bernard and his band of freedom fighters alone. If they're dangerous just eliminate them, its not as if the invid don't have the military force to do something like this no ? In the japanese version the invid arrive on earth in a random way, nothing special about earth. They make a first strike but then leave the earth and humans alone. Most people were evacuated to the colonies on the moon, mars and in the outer solar system. The few people left behind are resentful because of this, not because of the invid. In the Robotech version instead it seems most people still live on earth and are resentful towards the various soldiers whom they see as the cause for the invid invasion. Another big difference is the timeline, in the japanese version the earth is attacked in 2050 and between 2050 and 2080 several liberation fleets attempt to liberate the earth. In the Robotech timeline the invasion takes place in 2030 and the various recapture missions take place several years later (4-5 years). All in all its better to watch the japanese Mospeada and enjoy it for what it is. -
In fact I don't support Robotech in its present state. I will express my opinion on how HG is handling the franchise though, and right now its very negative.
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+1 The only way to revitalise Robotech is to send to hell all the historical fans and the historical anime. Then go to a triple A animation studio such as GAINAX, Studio Khara, MadHouse etc... pay them several milion $ to develop a new concept centered around the idea of protoculture. Throw everything else away and for god's sake come up with up to date models for spaceships, space combat, characters etc... No more Macross influence, no more Southern Cross and no more Mospeada. A fresh start. Of course such a bold move will never happen so the whole issue is moot. He he the Zentradi belong to Macross and HG doesn't have the right to the story, mecha and characters to use in derivative works. So of course they're are purging everything that even remotely smells of Macross. Until you're left only with Mospeada.
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Touche' although to be honest this thread doesn't stand as a testament to peace and understanding between the 2 communities. I've never understood this desire to protect something to the bitter end. I like Macross and I like the novelizations of Robotech. I know they are 2 different things and yet enjoyment of one doesn't detract from enjoyment of the other. If this makes me into some kind of macross non purist fan then I don't give a damn. I was not involved in any kind of flame wars during the late 1990s and early 2000s. In fact my motto was live and let live. Now this doesn't mean I was happy when HG decided to throw away all the different continuities to rally behind what is for all pratical purposes a Mospead II vision of Robotech. For me the animation was always an evolutionary dead end. Robotech the animation by the way it was put together would always always be shackled by Macross, Southern Cross and Mospeada. That's the reason why I gravitated towards the novels. At least they managed while maintaining a certain closeness to the Robotech material to introduce a number of novelties that enhanced and brought an epic side to the story that was lacking in the animated version. Do I care that Robotech the novel is different from Robotech the anime ? Not in the least, it was in my opinion one of its strong points. Now we can debate wether the ending is good or bad. It was anticlimatic I'll grant you that. But as far as endings go it was not half bad. You just can't resolve in a satisfactory manner an 18 volume novel. The only other option was to leave the novels open ended, and frankly speaking even a lazy ending is better than no ending at all. Witch hunting ? Ha ha ha you know the only people that suffer are those that are fans of Robotech but secretly hate it. And when publicly shamed will repent themselves and become Macross purists. Poor souls that they are. I'm a Macross fan and a Robotech fan and I don't give a damn about converting exclusively to one faith/sect to the detriment of the other. Now open fire.
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If you're not interested in Robotech ( or in bashing HG) then why do you post in this thread ? Seriously as trolls go it seems MWers are second to none. I was a long time fan of Macross years before Robotech (anime or novels) was even on radar. I like the novels over the anime. Is that a crime ? It still is Robotech although another variant if you think about it. In the end you don't need popcorn, you need to go back to that troll cavern you came out of.
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Yes the term uchuu has different meanings but in the context of the show "space" is the correct choice because the term uchuu seiki refers to a calendar system. And if you think about how the japanese specify the years you will see that in the context of the show Space Era is actually the more correct term. Its the same problem that arises when the zeon characters speak of the white base. They use the term mokuba. It has different meanings but in the english version of Gundam it was translated to trojan horse whereas in the Italian version it was translated to wooden horse (rocking horse). And rocking horse is more accurate, just look at the shape of the white base. The shape doesn't evoke the greek horse of mythology but it evokes a much more realistic rocking horse. You are correct insofar as the americans did more damage to the original source material than the italians or french. It was a matter of degree though. Very very few series had a correct adaption at the time, I can only recall Lady Oscar (but some things were changed with respect to the original japanese) and Space pirate Cobra (where the french dub is actually quite accurate except that the foul language was edited out). Of course in many cases the japanese just didn't care how foreign companies adapted their animes. So a little bit of blame has to go their way also. The original 1980 italian dub of Gundam is amazing. Amazing as in amazingly bad. If you put the two versions (japanese gundam and italian gundam) side by side they tell literally 2 different stories. That is how bad things were at the time.
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@ Darkwater post# 1376 : What you quote is interesting and to be honest nothing new. It was an accepted pratice back then (even without considering re-editing 3 unrelated series into one) to basically invent the story on the spot. Japanese script or no japanese script. And it sure wasn't limited only to the US. Italy at the end of the seventies imported so much anime, 20 years worth of japanese anime and most of it was adapted lets say loosely. Not by editing out panty shots or blood but by simply inventing lines which were not there in the original. It happened for Goldrake (Grendizer), it happened more or less for all of Go Nagai's superobots shows (Mazinger Z, The great Mazinger, Jeeg, Grendizer), it happened for Capitain Harlock 1978 and 1984, it happened for Lady Oscar etc... The dub of Gundam was invented on the spot. So you see respect for japanese anime wasn't there either in Italy, in France or the US. Of course it didn't help that the japanese didn't care to give well written scripts from which to make a correct adaption. So they are to blame as well although at a lesser degree. It is only in the last 15 years that correctly adapting japanese anime has become the norm at least in Italy. The one thing that hasn't changed is the japanese giving out substandard scripts from which to adapt. Thats one of the reasons why to correctly adapt a japanese anime you always always have to base your work on what's said in the anime and less to what's written on the scipt. Take for intance the term Universal Century in Gundam. UC is never ever pronounced in Gundam. In fact UC was being used by Bandai for its Gundam model line and later was retconned to mean Universal Century. But in the anime the characters never speak of the UC. They use Uchuu Seiki which translates to something along the lines of Space Era. So the correct philological translation is Space Era and not Universal Century. Now look at how the american version has been translated, they use Universal Century and it is wrong. The Italian version uses the correct term Space Era. Therfore I wouldn't put a lot of importance on the scripts, what is important is what is said in the anime. That has to be the primary source for adpatation and translation to a foreign language.
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Oh c'mon bashing on HG is a national / international game. You can't do that on the offical nazi-lead forums, and since this forum has had over the years threads DEDICATED to bashing HG what did you think would happen ? Well I for one am not buying. In fact I haven't even bought one copy of Robotech on VHS or DVD. I remember the anime from the mid eighties and it was ok. What I really like were the novels and those I have. Its enough. If new Robotech isn't on par with modern standards animation and story telling wise I will not give them a single €. In fact I haven't even bought Shadow Chronicles since it was a pos. But then according to certain people I'm not a true robotech fan so what do I know anyway.
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Well then DIE and you'll know. You can't even refute what I wrote so what do you want to argue about ? I gave a number or reasons for a remake of Macross having a good probability of going ahead. You on the other hand haven't given any reason for BW not going ahead with a remake.
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Gundam came out in 1979 and only now they're thinking about doing a remake. And why ? Because it makes money and people love the UC timeline. Why do you think projects like Macross The First came out ? If the original authors didn't give a damn about Macross they wouldn't look back now would they ? Nostalgia is a very big factor even in Japan. Hey not considering Gundam just look at Yamato. They're makling more remakes/reboots than one can shake a stick at. And if they continue doing so it means its doing ok. Big West is not stupid, they'll finance projects that have a good probability of not losing money. And Macross properties don't lose money. So doing a remake of Macross while contrary to many purists whishes can still be a possiblity. The moreso if Gundam the Origin is a success as an anime. Mark my words.
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Every franchise has its good parts and bad parts. I'm always amazed at seeing people declare they like ALL of Macross, or ALL of Gundam etc... For me its just inconceivable. As for the merchandise, I have the Animeigo Macross set, the Italian dubbed Macross set, the Italian dubbed VHS of DYRL, Macross Plus and a number of models kits I bought over the years (including Macross II models) and the Haruiko Mikimoto portfolio of the macross characters. Books and other Macross DVD series are simply off limits since I don't understand japanese so it would be like throwing away a lot of € for something I wouldn't be able to enjoy. As for the toys its just as off limits since the price for those are simply astronomicaly stupid. A Yamato VF costs here something around 230 € and its not even made of gold. Don't get me started on the SDF-1 models that goes just under 600 €.