Nani?!

Congrats on your first Yamato!

I suggest you get the Super Max&Millia VF-1J's in BBTS before they run out. only $54 bucks!

(though this has nothing to do with what you were asking, just thought I might mention)

I'd seriously start crying if I started seeing Valks with angel wings...

Like the SV-51?

Eh... the SV-51 is not as funky as the Gundam zero angel wings.

I mean Gundam zero in it's DESIGN itself is aiite, but FEATHERY wings on a giant robot? That's emphasizing the title a teeny bit TOO MUCH.

I hope with all sincerity that Macross 7 is as funky as it gets.

Also, mass is an even bigger factor in space, while streamlining is irrelevant. So the VF-1's smaller mass is an even bigger advantage in that environment. (Although it is offset somewhat by having a smaller capacity for reaction mass. Once the FAST packs come out, though, small size becomes a huge advantage, since you now have huge propellant/reaction mass tanks attached to a relatively small craft.)

True to some extent. But I think I'll emphasize again that the size difference between the VF 1 & the VF 0 is not of "holy $hit!" proportions. I think technology now and technology in the Macross timeline is more than sufficient enough to compensate (in thrust) for the size difference between the two. Also, if you look at the Macross Plus generation fighters, they increased in size not decreased.

For the Smaller size = Better storage on ships explanation, it's true but upon closer examination it also limits the individual valk's capacity to arm itself as well. Smaller size means less missiles. Also if you look at the current developmental progression of jets in the real world, everything is stored internally. Again, bringing in Mac +, both the yf 19 and yf 21 carry their missiles internally. Both valks are also larger in size. Given that you CANT pressure pack missiles, or manufacture them IN THE VALK itself, youre gonna need more space.

Lastly, Mass and Size should not be confused with weight. It's definitely possible for a larger valk to weigh less than a smaller one. And even though it is heavier, I think designers always compensate the added weight with added thrust to make it speed-wise superior to it's predecessor.

In all I think, SK could of done all of us continuity geeks a favor by making the VF-0 closer in design to the VF-1 than it is. Maybe making it even smaller than the VF 1. I dunno~ anyway, I think we're stressing this WAY too much.

Gundam Wing Zero's wings is an UPGRADE No?

Anyway, Alternate universes/timelines? I dunno about that. Let's not get too out of hand. The last thing I want is for Macross to get all magical (excessive cheesy SCIFI) on me like Gundam. I think part of the appeal of Macross is it's generally continual, all related universe. I'd really hate to see it get too fruity like Gundam has gotten with some of it's ova's (though 08th MS team was cool). What makes us macross fans have the upperhand to gundam is that we have a more believable and tighter storyline.

I'd seriously start crying if I started seeing Valks with angel wings and a goofy plot explaining why it's practical. Good God NO.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion just as everybody is entitled to disagree with one.

Anyway, did Yamato EVER say they stopped making collectors items? Nope.

Did yamato ever say that the 1/100's is the ONLY scale they'll ever make for Mac 0? Nope again.

I agree with you guys on the 1/100 scale and the all pvc move. But you guys talk as if that's all that they'll ever make for Mac 0. Mac 0 is a brand spanking new series folks, I think it warrants just a teeny bit of patience.

What I do think is testing my patience is the YF 19 FP. <_<

Anyway, the more I look at it, I think yamato is striving for the following analogy:

Yamato:Macross::Bandai:Gundam

Plain and simple.

Those of you who formed allegiances to a specific scale, myself included, lets stop talking like we're so different (also as if one is better than the other), we're all Macross collectors, whatever the scale.

And smaller size/mass means smaller target, better acceleration, and possibly better maneuverability. (Although I'm sure many, many factors contribute to maneuverability.)

I dunno about this.

Smaller target: It's not exactly like shooting a target 300 meters away then at 500 yards away with a rifle. The difference in size between the VF-1 and the VF-0 would not benefit (at least notably) their pilots from evading incoming bogies and projectiles. However, differences in speed and stealth are.

Better acceleration: C'mon... This is really false. The biggest factor that results in better acceleration is thrust. Again, we're not comparing a bullet to a F 22 (although theyre almost comparable). The SIZE difference between the VF-0 and the VF-1 hardly contributes to the acceleration. Given the same amount of THRUST, it's even likely that the VF-0 would fly faster because of it's superior aerodynamics.

Maneuverability: Like you said, theres so many factors to this. But as an example with real world jets, a higher end Sukhoi maneuvers better than a much smaller F/A-18.

So yeah, I think the only logical explanation is the one SK gave about the boarding on enemy ships. And to simply be realistic, the VF-1 was designed 20 years ago. Though it's understandable that people want continuity between the vf-1 and vf-0, I think we have to be a little more flexible rather than trying to fit a square block into a circular hole.

I'm a firm believer that no design is ever perfect.

That being said, I'm still in accord with the vast majority of you guys in that the VF-1 should not be altered.

As for Macross Zero, I kinda dont want to see the VF 1 in it.

I do... but then I don't.

However, since it is likely that it will make an appearance, I think the VF-1 design is flexible enough to refine but not drastically change. A bracketed curve here and there. Shoulder pads a bit more sleak. Just hope it's nothing drastic.

The VF-1 is in good hands... I dont think we should worry too much.

I suppose the real shame is that Yamato isn't allowed to sell Macross state-side. The domestic escaflowne version is 2/3 the price of the Japanese release. Just imagine if the same held true for domestic versions of all their Macross toys.

It probably would. If you look at everything imported VS domestic version, it always ended up cheaper.

If you really sit down and think about the price, it's really no joke. $180 for a 1/48 with fastpacks. That's the price of a PS2. As much as I LOVE Macross. It's a bit steep... The day Macross breaks the HGUSA barrier is the day of great jubilation for us state-side collectors.

QUOTE (imode @ Jan 29 2004, 05:31 PM)

QUOTE (Draykov @ Jan 29 2004, 04:30 PM)

QUOTE (JValk @ Jan 29 2004, 05:27 PM)

kids wouldnt be adverse to buying huge plastics planes - and parents wouldn't either. look at that old gi joe tomcat - that was pretty big wasn't it? and tons of kids had that!

That was like $30 in 1983 money though.

I think he was talking more about the size rather than the price.

My bad, I thought the issue was size and cost still.

I think Draykov was right to mention price. A gi joe Tomcat is no where in the same vicinity in price as a 1/48 VF-1. The size isn't the issue alone, it's the size/quality:price ratio that's the issue. If the 1/48 VF-1's were as cheap as GI Joe tomcats, I think there's no question that they'd sell a TON more...

In a perfect world, we'd have 2 scales. Yamato would either make everything 1/60 and 1/48. 1/48's would be for the die-hard "we want it big and beautiful. look at that fat thang!" collectors. 1/60's would be for the casual and budget/space concerned die hards. This is probably a good financial venture for them as well because people that bought tons of the 1/48 VF-1's will probably still buy tons of everything else in 1/48. All the 1/60 people will also rejoice that their scale is also "not dead" as was previously believed. In short, everyone gains from having 2 scales. You take a look at the poll on the other page, and it's pretty much 50/50. Everyone will be happy, with the exception of a dozen or so 1/72 people.

Nice.

Although I'm not quite sure if all 1/48 people are affluent enough to buy "tons of everything else in 1/48".

Let us 1/60 and 1/48 people stop arguing and respect each other. Both of us are "Die hards". No one can tell me otherwise... I spent 1000's of dollars on this stuff.

I just wish yamato was more consistent with their scales. Eliminating the 1/60 scale is almost a slap in the face for us 1/60 collectors. Yamato, Stop bunny hopping from scale to scale.

Ewilen you sound like a MW professor. Nice stats.

I, too am a little iffy about the 1/100 line. Whether or not I buy it really depends heavily on what the quality:price ratio is.

I totally understand Dampiel's arguement that consistency is important to a collector when it comes to scale. Which is why I initially cringed at the idea that Yamato was releasing yet another scale. But I think there has to be an equilibrium at some point between practicality and size.

A Valk reaching in lengths of 40 cm or 15 1/2 inches I think, really leans over the ledge both in price and size. Is it possible? Sure. But personally, in that size the price to pay (both monetarily and size) starts to surpass the "cool factor".

I think it's more important that we stress accuracy of the scales already introduced. To me, the ability to squeeze detail and quality into a smaller package is more impressive than creating a huge valk. Of course, it can't be TOO small... but regardless, I want to see yamato up the ante in quality while lowering price. If they can do it with the New 1/100's, and steadily increase the quality of the 1/72, 1/60 lines, I'll be happy.

Amen Aegis.

Seriously. If yamato continues to make 1/48 it's MAIN line I really don't think a lot of us would be able to keep up (both in shelf size and price).

1/48's are cool no doubt, but for some of yous, it's almost getting fanatical.

Amen Aegis.

Seriously. If yamato continues to make 1/48 it's MAIN line I really don't think a lot of us would be able to keep up (both in shelf size and price).

1/48's are cool no doubt, but for some of yous, it's almost getting fanatical.

Although the option will be nice, I don't think we're really missing out on anything.

Yamato is tight lipped anyway, and whatever little info we get, Graham relays so...

No for me. Atleast not until yamato can break through the HGUSA barrier.

And as for the instructions... cmon guys... It's not rocket science...

If you're really serious about the hobby, figuring things out is part of the appeal. Pictures speak a 1000 words.

I would LIKE a 1/60...

but I guess the Mac 0 series will follow the Mac + series with the 1/72.

Hey, all good for me.

Bring Em On.

hmm so they still say its "the suck" do they want a bandai reivial like some of us?

A bandai revival?!

that'd be interesting.... I guess maybe then yamato will more open to talk.

ehh... but then I guess it can go both ways.... bandai has some good lines and some horrible ones as well... I wonder if they can kick ass in Macross these days...

NICE. Truly... a work of art.

How much for a commission like this?

sure the customers have the right to speculate and opinionate, but some people think that they customize it people's certain tastes. The only vote that matters for them is the that raises or lowers their profit margin. Some people here think that Yamato goes thru this threads and takes notes. "The 1/100 is not good enough" or "it's good enough, but not with removeable parts" or "it better be cheap" I'm just saying. the only way you can affect them is if you do or don't buy their products. And even then you or anyone else on these boards know how they will take the response. If the 1/100 fails does it mean to them that the fans wanted a bigger one? Or the fans are not interested in the Vf-0s at all?

Nice. I agree with you in that sales figures are Yamato's greatest influence.

But I do think yamato pays attention to the forums here to a substantial degree. This explains why Graham's lips are held so tight. Given Macrossworld's popularity I think is one of the reasons why graham gets exculsive peaks at what is to come. I also think that it is because someone at yamato reads these forums is why Graham doesn't let the slightest hint slip out of his mouth. ie. when he said he had to ask his source if he can state the reasons why yamato went with 1/100 for the Macross O's.

Anyway, never underestimate the power of the forum... I've been posting for various others and in many cases, company reps posted updates personally straight from the source almost weekly. They even held IIRC chat/question sessions. Which is why I was surprised when I came here and found how guarded everything was here.

Sorry if I mistook you for a yamato imperial guard.

They're out there... to hunt down all criticism related to yamato.

But this could just as well blow up in their faces as consumers both abroad and domestic are apparently unhappy over the change to 1:100. There are examples from Japanese forums where they equate this new line to being like a Banpresto VF-0, except this will cost 2x as much. If they really wanted to "test the waters" without much financial risk, you'd think they'd go to a scale that has already proven its worth, IE. 1:60. A new fourth scale is just as big a risk as trying to put one out in 1:48.

WOW... Ex-friggin-actly.

Good business practice make "test-runs" with what worked before, not with something totally new. I think if yamato ever wanted to release a 1/100 scale they should have done it ages ago with their first toy lines. Not now. Though I totally believe that bigger and more expensive does not equate to better product, 1/72 or 1/60 should have been their starting point if they wanted small. Anyway, these better be considerably cheaper... if not, there is NO reason for its existence.

As for the yf 19FP, it already has been a "long long time". Maybe yamato just wants it to fade away from memory?

what gets me is who are they afraid of? Sure corporate espionage exists but who is a threat? kaiyodo and their trade figures? I douibt it. Toynami? nope not a chance. Bandai is the only culprit but everyone doubts them at this point unless it has gundam written all over it. not like toynami is trying to secure a licnse for making VF-0 toy. NIwther is bandai...or am i right? The onyl threat I would see is bandai and they havent done anything publicly talking about macross toys lately. UNless they are behind the scens making a valk line from scratch behind everyones back.

I agree with shin. Yamato is way too tight lipped considering there really isn't a huge threat to their business.

That being said, YF 19FP news & pictures please!

I agree with you JawJaw. There's always still a possibility Yamato may not make a larger VF-0. We have to remember Yamato caters to the Japan market and it will depend on how well the VF-0 line does there. If it becomes a success, plus Yamato is able to allocated resources to the Zero line, than we will probably see a larger scale. But I don't think it will be this year. Earliest in my opinion will be next year as Yamato will probably release most of the Macross Zero products in the 1/100 scale before announcing a larger version.

All true and agreed.

But still, given the popularity of Macross Zero, I think we'll see a larger scale. I'm definitely not holding my breath because I agree that it probably wont be out this year. Knowing yamato, I think a year or so is a safe guess-timate.

I dunno, I strangely do not have a doubt in my mind that there will be a bigger scale version. It's almost a no brainer for me.

Yamato's not kidding anyone.

They make stuff. You buy it or you don't.

EXO, You even stated in your recent post that you yourself will wait for a bigger version.

Given that the valk is cheap enough, yeah, I'll probably end up giving in and buying it as well.

In response to the tone of your remark however,

I think customers have the right to question, speculate, opinionate, and to some extent, complain about products both in production and post production.

Yeah, people can simply buy it or choose not to... BUT just like your previous post suggesting your probable decision, it's just not that simple. People seriously form loyalty and habits to all this. Knowing this, I think yamato should be more accessible to opinions of their loyal fans. Many of you people say "yamato doesn't owe anyone anything", "it's just toys" etc. etc... yeah, technically they don't and yes, they might be just toys, but it's yamato's core business. Even a simple minded person should know that in any business, the customer's opinion always comes first. Given that yamato has a fan based consumer following, this logic should be practiced even further. Unfortunately, it's really not the case.

Anyway,

Really. Being annoyed at whiners and flamers is one thing... But to blast away any sort of criticism reaching the vicinity of yamato because some of you believe "they don't owe us nothing", is just plain fascist. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion. That's the BEAUTY & PURPOSE of a forum.

I think if yamato had started off small with the VF-1 series all this "it's too small" fuss would have been a non-issue. I dunno, it kinda feels like buying a ferrari then downgrading to a Honda accord...

I welcome the idea in itself whole heartedly. Even the with the imperfect tranformation (yamato's were never meant for play anyway). Valks should have been cheaper. Us Macross collectors have been spoiled with the higher end of the Anime toy market. This is how Yamato should have started. But they didn't... they started with something superior. People (even the monetarily less fortunate like myself) tend to UPGRADE not downgrade.

Anyway, despite Graham's claim that a bigger scale is unconfirmed, I think it's safe for anyone to personally garantee and assure themselves that there will be a larger scale... Yamato's gotta be kidding themselves if they denies this...

My babies: TOTAL (all scales): 19

1/72 Macross Plus: (

1 - YF 19 1st Edition

1 - YF 21

2 - VF 11B

2 - VF 19A

1 - YF 21 Fast Pack

1 - VF 11B Fast Pack

1/60 DYRL: (11)

1 - VF 1S Roy Fokker

1 - VF 1A Hikaru

1 - VF 1A Max

1 - VF 1A Cannon Fodder

1 - VF 1D Two seater

1 - VT 1

1 - VE 1

1 - VF 1S Super Strike

1 - VF 1J Hikaru

1 - VF 1J Max

1 - VF 1J Millia

Sadly I don't have the money to start on the 1/48's... I CAN technically buy One or two and a set of fast packs... But I know I'll commit credit suidcide right after and buy the whole SET... Until I get a better job and acquire a lot of money, I'm going to try and stay away from the 1/48's....

My immediate future valk investments will be the VF-1J w/ GBP, and the YF 19 FP.

Well that's it for me.

19 FP! 19 FP! 19 FP!