Mercurial Morpheus

The odds of a legit Chinese release having english subs are infinitesimally small. It doesn't strike me as common practise that a DVD marketed to China would have subs in a language no really spoken there. Bootleggers are also known for great packaging. There is no legit, english release of M7 to my knowledge. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. I fail to see what market share has to do with it as well.

Yeah, to each their own. Even I wouldn't have been as pissed had circumstances been, I don't know, logical, and not utterly pointless and deceptive? On a side note, good to see the Duke avatar return.

Really, do tell?

I disagree (big shock, I know). Sure, for the common fan, the R1 will suffice, but if Gunbuster is high on your list of favorites, it just won't do. The music might work, but you just know it's not supposed to be there. That, and the R2/0 has that 4th disc that really is a dream for Gunbuster fans (I'm not big on extras, but even I thought it was worth it). The added trailers, period interviews, and image gallery is nice to begin with, but the icing is the rough cuts of 5 and 6. Seeing an early version of episode five, with incomplete footage, jerky pans, and a few seconds of added footage (even if of questionable content ) really gives a nice insight to animation production. It's just cool to see a version not meant for fan eyes. The open matte of 6 is a nice touch too, and implies that the color switch was a last minute thought. The fact that it's unaltered helps to sweeten an already great set. It's a shame that it's subless, pricier, and harder to find (can't prevent double dipping, now can we), since it's easily the better set.

yeah, those are the original DVDs. Note that the remastering is great, but the old DVDs still look pretty good as well. This isn't like M+ or 1776 and such.

Your set has subs because it's most likely a bootleg. Now I'm really curious here.

Yep. A search for Kick Ass Anime should turn them up. I don't know how well the set is seeded though. It's on the Box though, and well seeded there. So that's the better option. No, it's not the same. Unfortunately, the reason for this is because to has no UPC (at least not one printed on the packaging). As a one store exclusive, it probably didn't need one. As far as I know, it was only released as a set.

I think they were focused on getting the english right. It still has the "Britai to Macross" error regardless (only NLA got that right) MF, the new version would have a "v2" at the end of the filename. The Shao Pai Lon subs would be correct in it.

As am I, we just have different standards or peeves. Well, you don't have a remastered, better encoded version right before it, and it has been awhile between releases. Actually Viz released them. Overloaded each disc and it looks like crap. I've been trying to track down the VHS release, it looks so bad. It's a great series. MF, while not perfect, the G_P version 2 is probably the best. Actually LowVis Lurker, I had no idea of the v2 until you mentioned it. The v1 had "Evirus". It's a sub correction, Ericf

Well, these aren't HD, and they do have to balance quality and filesize. 4.3 gigs for 80mins is ridiculous in this day and age. 1.5 or so is the norm for two hours. H.264 handles it splendidly. Compare to NLA's xvid encode for artifacting differences. As for comparison, you made it seem like you were comparing G_P to the remaster, not to the original. I don't see the point in comparing an encode to a different DVD and holding it against it. At least, I think that's what you said... &_& The concert footage is unremastered. Naturally the better encoding of the new DVD makes this more obvious. If that's obvious blocking, the Key DVDs must be an absolute nightmare for you then. I know they are for me. The only defect there I can see is the horrid EE, which is the DVD's fault. Though maybe I'm not looking hard enough. U'm not seeing a tint either, but oh well. I assure you, G_P is the remaster. Glad the pics helped.

Are we talking the same encode here? The QR RAW was the one with the overblown contrast. I have seen both the G_P v1 and v2 and the DVD itself is on my HDD, and the detail and contrast is exactly the same, and they did a good job of cleaning up the grain. The h.264 codec does an awesome job of compressing it as well, so I have no clue why you claim it's "not optimal" My only conclusion is that you're either talking about a different encode, or your video setting are seriously out of whack (seeing as you are using two different mediums for comparison) I asked about your familiarity with the DVDs as you claimed the G_P was a retouch of the old disc when this is absolutely impossible. Here are screen shots that prove that the only difference is grain and hardsubbed karaoke. If I still had the B-G, I'd show how smeared it looks. Captured using MPC. MisaForever, I see you've discovered the joy of softsubs. snapshot20080118165040.bmp snapshot20080118165648.bmp snapshot20080118165123.bmp snapshot20080118165734.bmp snapshot20080118165151.bmp snapshot20080118170011.bmp snapshot20080118165159.bmp snapshot20080118170159.bmp

I'm sure they'll announce them eventually. Though it irks me that they stated an exact date and didn't pay off. That, and no response to my e-mail. Unless it's in one of their blogs. I know the FLCL announcement was late, but this is nuts.

Bobman, grain isn't a bad thing, but excessive grain can be. Especially in animation. The average amount can add a nice, warm look. The problem here is that it fluctuates in extremity and is just distracting. Of somewhat related note, I took a look at the B-G version. I can safely say stay away, especially if you already have the G_P one. Judging by the font choice and layout, unless he's part of G_P, this version just outright steals the subs from he G_P version and slaps his name on it. This is made more obvious by the typesetting of the credit to MW. Worse, the approach to grain removal is basically like taking a shotgun to a fly. It's horribly oversmoothed, and just a watery mess. Sadly, it's also the version that most people are going to download, since it's on Animesuki.

Good question. I don't know which Kinokuniya you went too, but I know the SF one had dozens of them a few months back. Other than that, your best option is the KAA rip. They fixed the sound there. In other news, two months and still nothing on that contest.

They released a new version? I wonder if my comments at Boxtorrents played any part in it. They do announce it there.

Not too familiar with either DVD or filtering are you? There's more to the new disc than contrast and grain. The G_P is definitely the new DVD. The color balance, presence of the corrected Max and Roy dValkyrie shots, and Bodolza glitch are all proof of that. They simple filtered the grain out. The raw is indeed horrible. Bakawolf released a copy. Haven't checked it yet. Animesuki finally re-added it to its list as well, years after I protested its removal.

True. Though hooking my PC up to my properly calibrated digital CRT still shows the grain. Though like I said, that's the least that bothers me now. When Hurin's subs are ready, I'll see how it looks played though the DVD player (which has different settings than the VGA hookup). You're right about distance though. I'm actually glad that they didn't remix it. Remixes almost never sound right, and some, like the new 08th MS Team remix, vastly alter the sound. Though R2s do have a better habit than R1s of including the original sound as well. As for expectations, I grabbed the set out of curiosity, and had no expectations to raise. It just seems a bit too half assed at times, but still an ok release for the reasons you and I mentioned (namely the interlacing).

Much has been said of M+, but I'm curious as to how M7 fared? Any pics?

I see you sniped me in the course of editing. Some of your questions are answered there. I've never used Womble before. I'd suggest doing a frame by frame comparison before just hacking it out, as it's still possible that frames are missing now due to the error. Same goes for the audio. Still, thanks for the effort. Removing the grain should be possible. Though ideally on a scene by scene basis as it's not as bad or entire gone in some places. I've only done such on stuff for Mpeg4, and have no experience preparing an edit for DVD. I'd suggest visiting OriginalTrilogy.com. It's a Star Wars forum dedicated to preservation projects, so you'll find a lot of info there. As for the subs, you'd should be able to either rip the script with times, or ask in their IRC channel.

Indeed. Personally, I think Bandai Visual would be the more logical choice, as ADV merely dubbed Macross and only got it because of HG. The Animeigo set of Macross is better anyway.

I figured as much. Nobodies perfect. I don't speak much either, so I'm going on Animeigo's word. I suppose it could be either, though the latter sounds better. I'd be happy to proofread it if need be. On another note, I found one of my unremastered fansubs. It's not NLA's, but S^M's release. I can't really compare quality, as it's a half resolution 700mb Divx3 file (still better than the bootleg rip I initially saw it on), though it is much darker. The good news is that it looks like the frames were repeated, not moved, as the timing seems the same. I'll have to frame by frame it to know for sure if anyone really wants to know. So I'm guessing it either swapped out some frames or added a handful. The flash is different too. It goes white, black, white in the HD, just white on the original. EDIT (take II): Having finally found my copy of the NLA version, I can better contrast and compare. The NLA was easily the best rip of the original DVD that I'd seen. My Millia avatar at the moment comes from it. Comparing it to the G_P release for sake of ease, as well as comparing a processed video to another processed video, I've come to these conclusions: 1 Brightness - The brightening does help, but isn't quite the godsend it's made out to be. Most of the details it makes apparent were already visible to begin with. They're just more noticeable now, and the film does look quite as dark as before. The best gain was starfields. The contrast is somewhat better, as some old shots looked a bit blown out. This is a tad double edged, as it does make some facial shadows (like the side profile of Minmay) a bit more pronounced than they might have been intended. So it's really down to preference on that one. the remaster appears a bit more consistent. 2. Color - In the rips, this is really a dead draw in terms of vibrancy. The remaster punches the reds at times. More than I'd like. Namely the opening shot of the Macross. The red lights are dim in the old, just as bright as the whites in the HD. It's debatable on whether this is a good thing, as it really changes the look. It's obvious in Minmay's concert scene as well, as most of the new details result from punching the reds. The color corrections are nice, but the occasional blue cast wasn't that noticeable to begin with outside of shot like the afore mentioned. The brightening does tone the colors down a notch at times too. So slight edge to the HD, but the reds are questionable. 3. Progressive vs Interlaced - Here's where the HD wins hands down. Even the converted NLA displays bad artifacting. This alone practically makes it the preferable set. 4. The Soft Spots and clean up- Okay, I'm going to have to retract my levying of them against the HD. As it turns out, they're in the orginal too. Right down to the exact spots. My guess is the the sharpening and brightening just made them more obvious. A lot more obvious. They're just not as noticeable in the original. This also suggests that no new telesync was performed, and that this is merely a cleanup of the original transfer. Though I'm not expert in that area, so I have no clue whether this is a transfer problem, or a film one. All I know is that it looks downright awful, and they're unobstruction in the new version is easily the worst thing about this release. The original wins here. The worst is the shot of Minmay at the end turning toward Misa. Has anyone else noticed the fact that the bridge behind Minmay is f*cking vibrating!? It's the nastiest video defect I've seen so far (I haven't watched it completely), and it's in both versions. It's a shame no attempt was made to correct it. I'm not even sure if it can be. The HD is somewhat sharper looking, but the gain is inconsequential and does little but accentuate the problems in the transfer that weren't dealt with. As for the clean-up, it's not as thorough as it could've been, as many flaws remain. Though the big ones were addressed. I happened by chance to pause at the shot of Minmay stretching her hand towards the screen right at a flash. The amount of dirt was incredible, and just awful, whereas the HD is smooth. It's really unnoticeable in movement, but a nice touch. So really, the HD isn't all that bad. Not as bad as the RAW made it seem, and pretty good in the right hands. Nice even. It's just not as good as it could've been, and that still makes it a disappointment. You get more consistent contrast and color, plus a somewhat cleaned up image in exchange for uncontrolled grain, sharpening that does more harm than good, some questionable (your mileage may very) color boosting, and that infernal misplaced batch of frames that are just plain inexcusable. So I really have to rate them almost about the same. Though the edge goes to the HD mostly for it's cleanup and progressive image. The loss of interlacing artifacts alone almost makes up for the laziness, and is the best improvement. Rip release wise, G_P is now the best looking under 2gigs subbed version of DYRL at the moment. This is do to it's superior encoding, with a more efficient codec versus NLA's much older release. It even dealt with the grain to little consequence otherwise, making it look better than the actual DVD. It's an improvement, if a questionable one at times, but far from "The Holy Grail".

The exact time is in the middle of 1:44:26. It stays on on screen for about three or four frames. I still need to find my non-remastered rip to compare. If anyone can prove it's supposed to be there, I guess I'll own them a Coke. Interestingly, yet another fansub has emerged from someone dubbing themself as Gray Phantom. It uses the HD source, and looks much better than the raw. It seems like some filters were applied as the grain seems less apparent. Though I've yet to do an outright comparison. If so, it's sad that a fan using off the shelf stuff and no budget could do what the official releaser couldn't. I'm guessing he's around here, since it uses Hurin's subs. Though I was surprised to see the erroneous song translations of the old bootlegs in the script ("Evirus The Slayer" instead of the proper "Evil's slayer" and "Long" instead of "Lon")

But you did suggest it to them by linking to those pages. Still, glad to hear it! and i have ALL of the macross series. yes, i watched ALL of macross 7. Good for you. Considering that M7 is fansub/R2/Bootleg only, I fail to see the relevance. and i only gave an example of the dvds that i own. i have seen naruto, bleach and death note in japanese AND english and the english actors have NO EMOTION in their voice. I know that, and you're basing an entire industry off of the minuscule amount that you apparently own. Look, I agree that most dubs are not as good as the original, but that's no grounds to call the actors cheap, or slam companies for not being able to afford some Hollywood actor. Not to mention that it all comes down to opinion. I've heard the Bleach dub myself. I'm not a fan, but I wouldn't call it emotionless. hey, i am a artist and ACTING IS AN ART. so i hate those who are terrible at their artform. this includes those who do the english voice actin' for anime. Me too. I've even acted on stage. Funny how you've seem to forgotten that art is subjective, and that we're all human. ask me about any hollywood movie or tv show and i can tell you about BAD ACTORS. even oscar winnin' movies have bad supportin' actors in them, even if the bad actor only said ONE LINE IN THE ENTIRe MOVIE. what is the director's problem??? they probably do 1000 takes for one scene and he should have brought in a TRAINER for terrible actors or make them do it until they get it right. Yeah, money is no object! How dare he not waste film and time getting one actor that's onscreen for a second right. Not to mention that it's his call, when it should be yours! Sorry, but that's how the world works. I know of actors I personally can't stand that have won awards. Not everyone is perfect. Not to mention that such as this statement is mere opinion. i have seen the korean tv show FULL HOUSE and that is VERY GOOD ACTING!!!!!!! they even get their facial expressions down right. i have not seen any american actor use the faces that they used (outside of comedians makin' faces). you knew the persons emotions just by their face. So you're one of those that automatically thinks that, if its foreign, it's better. That's bullshit, and you know it. Not every show dictates Oscar caliber performance. Even than, there are tons of great actors on both sides of the Pacific. as for ninja scroll widescreen. it does have a better audio than my original non-widescreen movie, i just didn't bother to read the reviews on amazon about the picture ('cause i hadn't even bother to watch it ONE TIME until i read the reviews about the picture bein' cut off. it just sat on my tv for 2-3 months and i finally played the movie to see if they were right or not). simply put, i AM A BIG NINJA SCROLL FAN and i wanted the movie anyways. if i wanted to be cheap, i could have dl'ed the movie FOR FREE!!! That makes Manga the bad guy how? Sure, they probably shouldn't have done it, but you were uninformed. So you bought something, never watched it, then out of the blue, you read a review about cropping, finally pop the disc in, and get upset about something that you didn't bother to watch until after the stink? I'm a big Gunbuster fan myself. I didn't like what BV did to the US release so I bought a different legitimate version. You don't hear me whining about a set I don't own. at the same time, if companies expect me to BUY MOVIES and NOT DL FOR THEM AT THE SAME QUALITY FOR FREE, then they need to EARN MY MONEY. That's funny, I thought they did. Maybe if you wrote them instead of whining on a message board, they'd learn how to please you. They're hardly the same quality too. Close maybe. that is simply from one artist (me when creatin' a cd FOR SALE TO THE PUBLIC) to another artist (an anime studio creatin' a dvd FOR SALE TO THE PUBLIC). get it right or go out of business, ya heard me. So a huge company dealing in an entirely different, and much more expensive, medium with dozen if not hundreds of titles should hold themselves to an outsiders standards? Even though the market is entirely different from yours? I agree that the releases you mention are messed up, but they hardly reflect the industry. and if the anime cartoon is bootlegs, than all you have to say is that they ARE BOOTLEGS. they is NO NEED TO MAKE IT SEEM LIKE I WAS PROMOTIN' PEOPLE TO GO OUT AS BUY BOOTLEGS AS I SAID They are indeed bootlegs, as I said. Firstly, stop with the caps lock, as on civil forums it is equivalent to screaming. Secondly, you are too promoting them. You linked to them, and even advertised that you were saving up for them. If that's not a promotion for the sets, I don't know what is. How am I supposed to know that you were unaware that such obvious bootlegs (what with the region-less coding, chinese subs, preposterously low price on M0, and utter lack of a US release) were in fact so? So my option is to either a.) assume you couldn't put two and two together and were ignorant, or b.) give you some credit and figure you knew, but just had no problem with it. I chose the latter. i was simply pointin' out what I WOULD BUY, NOT GO OUT AND BUY BOOTLEGS. i already have the entire macross collection (minus macross ii) on dvd (either fansub or dvd-rip) and i am SIMPLE BUYIN' THEM 'CAUSE I LIKE MACROSS THAT MUCH. oOo, but you didn't know that. why would i go out and buy bootlegs OVER the REAL RETAIL DVD when i already have them on DVD-R?!? i'm still scratchin' my head. I can only go on the info you give me, buddy-boy. Your exact words on the matter were, "they're on my "to buy" list so i can't give any first hand experiences right now. they are the only import dvds that i've found so far (and i don't even need to use my region free dvd player to play them)." Hence how am I supposed to know what the heck you have. I have fansubs myself of both, plus the legitimate US releases of Macross, M+, and MII. Unlike you, I actually bought what was released here. You outright say you plan on buying them, and in this context, you meant these sets. I'm glad to hear that you won't know that you know what they are. did i say that, go buy bootlegs?!? NO. normal people say, "hey, those are bootlegs", "that is not a good choice that you have in mind" or "that company is on the black list" like they did in this thread. http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=24624 there is not need to be a TROLL and make it seem like i go around tellin' everybody to buy bootlegs when i simply went googlin' for import dvds to buy instead of buyin' that fc*kin pitiful job that harmony gold calls a series. Funny, that's exactly what I did. I've already explained the promotion part. You linked to bootlegs and said, "buy these". Ignorant or not, you still recommended them. Quit with the hyperbole by the way. It was one measly warning not to do it here. As you've explained, you were unaware, so I know it wasn't intentional, so in that case, no harm done. I wasn't even harsh about it. As for the name calling, if you think a simple warning makes me a troll, you must not talk online much. Most people would call the one who rants about unrelated things with seemingly no knowledge of the industry, let alone how caps works as the "troll". Not me though. I don't stoop to petty name calling. As for Harmony Gold, we're not talking Robotech here. The Animeigo Macross set is gorgeous, and a mere forty bucks. The Manga release of M+ and M II are old, but passable for the quality available at the time and are dirt cheap. So I have no clue what you're refering to there. so you know that they are bootlegs, so i guess that you either bought the dvds before from them or that you have proof that they are bootlegs. or you most have a link to where somebody can buy the REAL import dvds from. region doesn't matter, my dvd player is region free. No, I haven't bought them, nor would I ever. Like I said, it's obvious. Most region free discs are illegitimate. Add in the chinese subs, low price, the fact that Anime Cartoon is not the show's distributor, and lack of a US release, and it's a no-brainer. I've also been around for a long while, and Anime Cartoon is a well known bootlegger. Here's one site a Google search turned up. http://www.jazzmess.com/merch/bootlegfaq.html This site is reference by anime conventions - http://www.digital.anime.org.uk/piratefaq.html As for a legitimate release, I don't buy many R2s, so I'm not the best authority on the subject here for the best price. One site though, is CD Japan. M7 was just remastered. http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=BCBA-3049 http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=BCBA-3050 http://amazon.co.jp/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/249-175...o.y=0&Go=Go M0 can be found on this search page http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/search.html?curre...cross&sort= CD Japan is a well known and respected provider of Japanese media. and NO it isn't my dvd player. i have a region free dvd player, a dvd player, a ps2 and my pc's dvd burner. i can tell you right now, HARDWARE will not make a subtitles border disappear. i have the video authorin' software and my friend uses the video authorin' hardware. that comment is a weak attempt at a troll. I only suggested it as my DVD player does cause some display issues with the subs. Still, as an owner of over a hundred DVDs from just about every company, I can assure you that these are rare cases. The 'troll' comment here, I might point out, is a great atempt at insulting retardation, as I was merely offering a possibility based on my own experience. Sorry if I was blunt, but your holier than thou approach sort of made me apathetic to your situation.

For the love of- Do not purchase those Anime Cartoon sets. They're bootlegs, they look like crap, and the subs suck. Not to mention you won't be supporting the producers at all, just paying 73 bucks on something that cost 3 bucks (no joke) to produce. Go to Animesuki.com and download the free fansubs there. If you like it, buy the R2. DJ Loe Kee, do not suggest bootlegs, especially for that ridiculous price. As for your grievances, have you seen all of five US DVDs? Because really, where the hell are you coming from with these conclusions? Yes dubs tend to be inaccurate, but than do what I do and don't watch them. 1. Were you expecting James Earl Jones and Ian McKellen? What kind of baseless argument is that? Dub companies use actors in the field of dubbing. You think anyone in the anime business outside of Disney can actually afford big name talent? I dislike the over use of some actors as well, and a lot of them do lack skill or just sound shrill. Still, there are some that even I think are quite good, and there are horrible Japanese actors as well. 2 The two dubs you list are decades old, and from a company known to take liberties. Aside from Funimation and some ADV dubs, most are pretty accurate. 3 Ever thought your DVD player is the cause? Most DVDs have the borders you speak of. The only ones I've seen otherwise are either ancient or a bootleg. Seeing as you have no problem with boots, maybe that's what you're seeing. My DVD player sucks with subtitles, and I've never encountered borderless subs. As for fansubs vs pro, fansubs tend to cater to hardcore fans, so they can be more accurate. It really depends though. I'm a big fansub watcher, and In know firsthand that a lot are crap. Shame that mot fans don't notice due to their ignorance of the language. Most seem to take whoever releases first. Pro releases have to broaden their audience, but really, they're just not as thorough. Though some companies do go all out. It really is a case by case thing. 4. Your fault for not doing the research on the disc or movie to find out which is correct. A simple visit to IMBD would've told you it was cropped. Anime films are often open matte. It was probably put in widescreen either for those with 16:9 TVs, or because it was meant to be cropped. Manga doesn't owe you a thing if you blindly bought a film you already owned. It's not their fault you chose to make an uninformed purchase. From the looks of it, you're bashing an entire industry based on actions Manga Ent made years ago. As for ADV, just about every disc they've released have both languages. So I don't know where you got the messed up information your spewing.

I wouldn't forgive them for that just because of something like that. The shots in the last vob, so it's nowhere near the layer change. It really is inexcusable. My guess was that someone messed up the frame order during the obviously brief digital restoration work.