Mercurial Morpheus

Definitely looks that way. Apparently, she's a miner as well as a cow girl. Oh idealized concepts of foreign history. I'd love to see someone pull off that black stage outfit at a con without the benefit of the cloak. I've seen manga Chocolats , so the bouynderies can be tested. And suddenly, I want an image of Sheryl shaving her own head for the luls. Though I'm still liking the blue hair.

Hmm.. I don't remember it being huge, and certainly it wouldn't have the articulation a Revoltech would. I wouldn't know, since i never bought it. I do know some DieBuster mecha did get other toys.

Glad I'm not the only one that feels that way. The chorus is catchy, but the rest is just blah. As for canoncity, Bri's right. Kawamori basically said both versions were "based on a true story" like productions. Though I still feel DYRL is better after the series than before, as it fills in the gaps. Interesting coverart, though Sheryl's face, like seemingly usual, is a bit odd. Who's Shiryl Nome, by the way? Thanks for the translation. Sounds like a lot of changes to Sheryl. Sounds like they're better balancing her character.

There was a Dix Neuf figure made at one time. It's a bit bigger than the Revoltech.

To be fair, the Koto and Bome heavily accentuate her ass. Nice to see an episode 6 Noriko.

You don't need to hang out with fanboys to research something. I was always told it was Megazone myself, but than I heard of and saw Dallos. It's not bad if you can handle the lack of decent translation and quasi conclusion. How is anything a "true" first OAV anyway? If it was direct to video, it's an OAV. Just because you've never heard of it doesn't mean the better known title is more deserving of it. My general thought is that Megazone was simply the more popular and influential title, hence the confusion. OAV's have always had to worry more about appealing to it's market than most. Classic example is them not killing off Priss in BGC as planned because fans said they wouldn't buy it if they did when the word leaked (it's still painfully obvious considering she seems to magically heal from a Bowie knife to the gut). Hence how art always has to balance with marketability. The sad stuff happens when the marketers only think they know what the fans want or are unwelling to try something new. Time slots affect things too. Later night shows can be more niche than primetime (stuff like Zetsunbou Sensei would never fly with a non-otaku audience [even they compare it to the manga, something western fans don't quite have the luxury for]). Look at Code Geass. The fantasy elements were added when it became a late night show because they felt that sort of thing appealed more to that audience. When R2 went to primetime, the characters had to be reintroduced and so forth. It's interesting how stuff like that can affect a show.

I wouldn't say there were any to avoid. The shop across from Kinokuniya had an interesting selection. Time Tunnel and Space Cat are must sees. Nikaku's still hanging in there. I finally dumped the pics off my phone, here's my ever more wrong assortment. Pardon the blurriness of the first few from finger grease on the lenses. It's still odd holding Sheryl's disembodied head in my hands.

Where the heck did you find that anyway? I must've missed something.

I still need to track this thing down. It looks hilariously bad. Sort of like that thing I saw in Bad American dubbing that ripped off it's character designs from first Gundam.

Eh, I just didn't want to say naive. Maybe I write this because I never viewed her sexuality as a huge part of her character, at least not in the way it's been described in this this thread (never helped at how mannish she looks at times when the art slips too). A lot of it is reading a bit too far into little things and whatnot (the hallmark of any fandom discussion, and why these characters suck to some, and are awesome to others, it's all about how much work you put into it). I'm merely trying to quantify Itano's position given the little we have. I never did finish Aquarion, and like I said, Eureka was the flavor of the month, making me feel like I'd watched the wrong series. I too found Monster Girl a bit odd for Ranka, but awesome as a fan of pin up nose art. Aw well, to each his own. Hey Gubba, that shrimp and mermaid ready yet?

I was replying to multiple prople, hence I skipped the quotes and spoke in plurals. Seriously? I took it as such when I wrote the response, but after reading it a few times, especially that last paragraph reads like pure sarcasm. It was great. Knowing you were serious highlights the whole issue even better. Sweet, sweeet irony. Seriously though, if you think she was made sexy only for plot reasons, you're very pure minded. Sure, a diva character makes sense as a sex pot, but you could've written her many different ways, and she'd still fit type. They just knew that making her a stage goddess would allow them to make posters much like the awful movie one, and no one would say ""Sheryl's not like that" (though it does bewilder me when they sex up Ranka for the exact same reason). Oh, and I liked Aquarion. It wasn't great, but I remember it getting better as it went on. Though I suppose I should've watch Eureka 7 instead so I wouldn't have felt left out when people wouldn't shut up about it. Exactly, Roy Focker. Though I think Itano has a bit of a point. I'm sure a show can sell if they just let it be, it's just that no one wants to take a chance any more (except maybe Shaft and 4c, they make some weird stuff). Gubaba, it's from 4chan. It doesn't have to make sense.

Man, I love how this thread is about two subjects, neither really having to do with Itano anymore. Interesting how the web works.

Pretty much, though I can see bringing up her anime portrayal as justification for it. Like how I can see Sheryl in this sort of way moreso than Sheryl (I even wondered how many people preferred Sheryl over Ranka simply because she was "the sexy one" as shallow as that sounds). It sort of harkons back to the discussion of whether an average looking girl cosplaying a sexy character is any less worthy than a sexy girl doing it. Sheryl was designed for such purposes, and it would be ignorant not to acknowledge it. Though even Ranka gets the treatment too. Rise up seems more appropriate than Hard On given the character involved. Ranka does tend to inspire "tamer" figures and what not. It's awesome in the fanart, but a touch weird when the official art does it. It'll also be a battle between cute and sexual for ages. A middle ground is always desirable (hence the popularity of Tsundere, they can be sexy yet cute). The simple truth of the matter is that anime is as much a business as it is an artform. There's always going to be a tension between the two as well as those who believe it should be more the former than the latter and vice versa. I even know people that refuse to acknowledge it as an artform simply because of the commercial aspect (these people tend to forget how much money greased the wheels of many masterpieces of various forms). Itano's argument seems to fall on that line. Finding that balance of cool for the right and wrong reasons, element that sell versus what's needed to get the story told, is always a key. When it comes to advertising, the greatest truth in merchandising to young adult males has long been "Sex Sells", whether we like it or not. I generally don't mind it as the alternatives aren't much better usually, but it can be bewildering at times (pretty much my take on all this, rather than, say, disgust). I'll watch an anime show for it's cute girls almost as much as for the meat of the program, though I prefer to look at it as a bonus. Anime caters so much to young men, it's created a slew of female characters that run the gamut from shy and meek to strong and confident (which is why cosplay caters so well to women, the girl characters often outshine the men). No red-blooded young man can ignore it totally. Peoples' definition of sexy varies like all opinions. It's just nice when they're not being so gosh darn obvious about it all the time. It's a discussion that'll go on til the cows come home I'm afraid, so varied is the topic.

I wasn't attributing it to you, sorry if I made it seem so. See post above mine and Roy Fokker's for why I added in the "not about fanservice bit". Though I believe Freiflug88's to be quite satirical.

Considering that the B-17 is my favorite aircraft, and that I have a family history with the plane, I grew up reading books with tons of nose art (not like you knew that, so I'll let it slide ). Kids at school would borrow books at reading time just to gawk at them. Trust me, I know how sexy they are, and as a huge fan of pin-up art, enjoy it, but I've rarely seen anything as blatant as Rise Up (granted, I'm sure most of the more blatant stuff never made it into the books). It's usually a lot more subtle (outside of plain nudity and euphemisms). Even your example is a lot less over the edge (honestly, if you removed the phrase "Rise Up', it'd be a bit more on base, she'd more likely be riding the shell than having it as an obvious phallic symbol too). That stuff also didn't "get by" in the forties. Base commanders allowed it and encouraged it as a morale booster. It was tolerated. Generally, the further from headquarters, the laxer the rules (I've read it's the Pacific theatre that the real racey stuff comes from like The Dragon and His Tail, featuring a woman in the dragon's embrace). Still, most planes that got selected for hometown bonds tours got the images blanked out, since they'd have caused an uproar back home. Korea and Vietnam had their own share too, with the latter being less sexual and more metal. I'm not even really arguing the fanservice angle, and generally agree with you on it. Even the art is question has a touch of whimsical fancy to it, so it's not like I abhor it. I'm pretty liberal with sexual media. It is more fitting for Sheryl than the "Hard On" art of Ranka. It just was a touch amazing to see that of all images get selected as an early figure (I suppose they wanted something to match the more tradition looking Ranka, sort of like how they had to make a goth Rei for the goth Asuka). Though I hesitate to agree that a Sheryl figure "done right" necessitates such a thing on such a level even if it is a part of the character, thats all (and I know that's mostly in jest). Basically, VFTF1 likes things a touch smuttier than me, whereas I like a bit more of a clever touch. It's like how Ranka is cute, but not all Ranka figures have to be dipped in sugar. B) It's a matter of taste mostly, I guess, and Gubaba's right in that this thread is fragmenting. I was mainly bringing it up in reference to Pete's reaction to Itano as an example of what he may be complaining about, not so much complaining about it myself. I'm not even sure if Itano means all he says about Frontier (which I must remind all is very little so far). He could just be using it as an example merely because he's talking to Macross Ace. Makes more sense to rant about something more relevant, even if it's not your main beef. Though one thing, while one can argue that it has nothing to do with fanservice, think again. Just because it's a part of the character, doesn't mean it's not some form of fanservice. After all, she's a fictional character, and they chose those aspects for her. I'm not really arguing against her as a sex symbol as that's clearly one of the things she was meant to be. You guys are saying having the decision to make a stripper-esque stage presence part of the character had nothing to do with marketing? Even the albums these arts were sold with promoted the sexy stickers inside rather than the music. Sure, there's an artistic duality to how it's handled, but thinking that's all there is to it is rather naive. That's pretty idyllic thinking. They simply handled it well enough to get away with it. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, and it's best when made a valid character point, I'm just saying don't fool yourself into thinking it's purely there for noble reasons. Sheryl's got a cute side to her too, and I mostly only see that in fan art. This is derailing, and I'm not sure why I'm even on this part of the subject. ;;; So I think all's been said that needed to. "'Cause really...there's no one like a sci-fi fan to go in and parse sentences with almost rabbinical fervor..." You can say that again. Hence how a discussion on Itano's view on Ace becomes one on the sexuality of Sheryl Nome.

Wigs make more sense. Most people I know, myself included, like to cosplay more than one character. Kind of hard to cosplay Sheryl when you;re sporting Ranka dog ears. a lot even base around their own hair, or do nothin at all. Colors should be chosen more carefully though.

It's a well done figure I'll admit (the face is a touch odd, though most Sheryl art is), but a horrible piece of artwork, and a near insult whenever someone dubs it noseart. It's a perfect example of just how messed up some things can get and just how far some manufacturers will go. It's almost funny in an amusing way. depending on how you take it. Still, that's stuff should be reserved for doujin art. It's Sheryl done right if you only see her as a sex object (and lets not get into the finer pros and cons of such a thing please). I love sexy figures, but I prefer them to be a touch more subtle and tasteful. So if i ever got it, I'd probably remove the bullet. The Don't Be Late figure is a touch boring in pose, and the cast off is rather ridiculous, but I like it a lot better in person.

Thanks for the hard work.

Hopefully the full song will impress me moreso than the samples have. As for the hair color, it strikes me as nothing more than part of the stage outfit and artwork showing a duality to on-stage/off-stage Sheryl. Nothing more.

Yes, and there's a million other ways they could suggest Sheryl being a puppet on a poster that doesn't involve putting her in leather in a style trying too hard to look like Masamune Shirow. I wasn't referring to any particular poster either, but that one is rather ubiquitous. A lot of Sheryl art is so meh. I still can't believe they made that "Rise Up" figure. "What's wrong with sexy girls being the focus instead of mecha? I almost fell asleep to episode 7. Over-using mecha can destroy their awesomeness and make them mundane. Girls never get overused no matter how many times you use them. Plus - you can always change their hair, put some new outfit on them... Mecha - you can't really do much. I mean, you can customize I guess...but.. hmm..." Nothing, if that's the point of the show. But if you just want to watch something about cute girls, that's what stuff like K-on!'s for. If I'm watching a dramatic mecha show, I sort of expect the mecha to have a good focus on it in the ads, posters, art, and show itself. Of course it can be too much, but you can't really over use mecha in the plot of a mecha show thnough I'm all for the blending of genres. You overdo it can cute girls like anything else. Just look at Negima and tell me that's not way too many characters. I get what you're saying, and I love anime babes as much as the next guy, but this isn't "Sheryl Frontier" we're talking about. You want Sheryl and Ranka as bigger sex-objects? There's plentyof doujin and an entire porno for that.

Amusingly, Alto actually reminded me of Kamille early on. Might I add, I actually have little problem with fan service, moe, and what not. I even generally love Tsunderes. As long as it's not the overall focus of the show (hence why I can't watch stuff like "a show for all fetishes" like Negima).

Yes, insofar as to what I was referring to, the marketing material. The way the trailers are done. The merchandise I've seen. The promo artwork. A lot of it is Sheryl and Ranka. Not that I'm saying playing up characters is bad, or that SDF Macross didn't do it (plenty of Minmay art abounds), far from it. But if I didn't know what MF was about, the material would suggest to me green and blond haired girls. Yes we have, as I don't really remember Frontier doing any of that. I do remember Sheryl chasing her panties and other basic stuff. "Over and Over and Over Sheryl states that her boobs help sell her music, and that it's all part of her performance because that's what people expect." Over and over? I recall one throwaway joke while teasing Alto. Nice that you've worked it in as a huge part of her character (but don't all fans). She's aware of it, but that's about it. I also think you're putting words in his mouth and jumping to conclusions. He makes brief statements about Frontier and how he views Macross Ace as little more than a fan pandering rag, and you rebut him making comments against sexualization of characters that he doesn't even talk about. He never mentions thinking Ranka too moe, Sheryl too sexy, and what not. All he does is call Ace a bishoujo mag and feels the triangle and plot of it a bit messy. Fair enough. Ease off a bit, please. You indeed don't know what he's talking about, as these are a few random thoughts that you are applying to very specific ways. It not even what I was talking about in what you quoted from me. Besides, Klan's not a lolicon moe, she's a Tsundere. "Not sure if catering to the moe and fujoshi crowds makes a series appeal to a wider audience or more towards women. I would associate moe and fujoshi fans with the hardcore male and female otakus rather then mainstream anime fans. Iirc Gundam Zeta in particular had a large female fan following while still being a classic mecha show," I get the impression that they're viewed as a big piece of the pie. The hardcore fans are the ones you can sell stuff to. Like I said, I think he merely sees it as pandering to fans that he feels shouldn't be the focus in the first place. Z Gundam being the ideal, something that appeals to those fans without necessarily being marketed towards them. I definitely agree on character importance. It's probably why I'm so iffy on Frontier, as I'm iffy on the characters. Despite what Itano says, I always felt Frontier was more a story driven show, not a character one. I definitely would love to read the rest of the interview, if only to take as a lark. Thanks to the translator.

That's pretty much how it reads to me. A lot of members of the industry seem to feel that way, but they make it because they feel it's popular. I remember a Gainax panel where Yamaga stated that they started out by making stuff they as fans would want to watch. Now, trends and tastes have changed so much that they feel they have to make things they wouldn't particularly watch themselves. It's funny that way. I own one issue of Ace, and can see why he'd have a problem with it. Outside of The First, there's not much to it. I can see him feeling it nothing more than a bishoujo mag. hmmmm.... I'd read it more as a dislike for having to make it appeal to everyone. He says "they want the fujoshi" and "mecha doesn't sell". That might refer more to putting it elements simply for the purpose of bringing in female fans rather than improving the show. I don't think it's about him not wanting female fans. A general hatred at the view that mecha anime (traditionally more appealing to men) must appeal to all audiences. I guess that can be viewed that way, but I think he just feels that mecha is less about the mecha and story, and more about creating characters that people go "sqeeeee" over. To be fair, most that argue that forget that animation has always had a marketing angle to it. Though that doesn't mean one can't complain about it (such as Tomino wanting the RX-78 to be all white, but the company wanting bright colors that sell better). I also disagree with having to watch all of something in order to criticize it. I knew I didn't like Hellsing TV, Higurashi, and K-on, after a few episodes. A lot of people seem to get on one's case if you badmouth a show you've only watched some of. I can see if that some is only one episode, and you really fuss over it,but who sticks to a series they're not enjoying just so they can justify saying, "no sir, I don't like it"? Sure, it builds up credibility, but why insist someone torture themselves just so you can give their opinion credit? An opinion is formed rather quickly, usually. I've been known to like characters just on their designs back in the day. As for the sniper bit, I think he was just pulling up a quick example to back up his complaints. An example of a sniper doing something he sees as detrimental to getting the job done. It is a bit of an odd complaint, admittedly. He should know that it's common to bend reasonableness for the sake of looking cool, just like the Minmay fall. Your mind says "yeah right" at the same time it says, "that was awesome" with the hope that the latter wins out. A VF taking aim on an asteroid looks cool, the sole reason it's there. It's like when someone does something stupid to advance the plot. It's a lame crutch of bad writing, but at times it's a necessary evil. It's just part of the medium. All in all, I think it's rather awesome that he doesn't mind being written up in print like that. It does make him look a touch like a jerk, but he obviously doesn't care given his line about not wanting to associate with fans of this ilk. Besides, like someone pointed out, it gets people talking. I do sort of agree with his statements on Frontier. The relationships, while good on a character level did fail to me on a romantic one, and the drama did get a touch muddled. It can also be fairly obvious to note how much moreso Frontier focuses on it's girls than it's plot in terms of fandom marketing when in comparison to older anime, a common trend, which is probably to do with his 1/3 comparison.

Quite a shame. Like most here, I have a great fondness for Do You Remember Love and it's vaunted title song. I listen to it all the time, and have seen Mari performs it a few times. I even liked Ranka's version of it. Sad to hear another Macross composer has left us. RIP.

Yeah, he's so much more upstanding than that Rick Hunter fellow .