Noyhauser

no its more tiresome juvanile behavior that classifies your response to it A-1. Maybe you are being sarchastic or trying to be witty, I don't know or care. Most Macross fans like M-7 thats a given (in Japan where the target market is). Your "protection" is not needed nor wanted. I never said Macross 7 was the best series but the reputation you give it is completely unfair and doesn't deserve it at all. Certainly Macross 7 has its failings. Yes it doesn't have the best animation, and its pacing is off. And the separation between the Ephemeral story and the deeper allegory is a bit wide. But it is still a good series that has a lot more to offer than at first glance (10 to 15 episodes in)Thats what I am trying to point out. Stupid mindless trashing of it however is not a failing of Kawamori or the series but the people who trash it.

Sorry that Macross 7 doesn't have overt love triangles to make it easy for you. Ray and Gamlin has PTSD, thats for sure, and that ain't cool. Fan service... not even close to as bad as any other contemporary Japanese series. Man if you watched Chobits you would be floored. The fan servicing is probably just as bad as in the first series when you take it in context of the early 1980s. Would you PLEASE READ MY POSTS ABOUT WHY THE ANIMATION WAS NOT TOP NOTCH OR THE REUSE OF MUSIC. If you want to come on here and argue please read other peoples posts, not hammer away at the same stupid issues. One good reason- The energy it would take to move the whole ship is a lot less than having to move the arm that carries the gun, That would allow you to swivel the whole cannon assembly much faster while firing the cannon so you can sweep a greater area, rather than having to move the whole ship. If you are pissed about the Battle 7... then you should really ask yourself why you like Macross first place because it transformed... maybe because Kawamori thought it would look cool? Kawamori has only made two television shows, so zero doesn't prove crap. Zero and Plus are OAVs, which are a lot different to make. You have more money to concentrate on less time, in some ways that makes it easier to produce. Seeing that KAwamori wanted to make 7 at the same time as plus, even though 7 would be made at a shoestring budget and Kawamori is very conscious about how his lines are developed I think he was quite aware of what he was doing.

Actually Duke since this is the first time I ever posted about macross 7 it would make it hard to make me a "usual suspect". I just posted to point out that a lot of the problems with Macross 7 are really because they are stylistic differences that Kawamori used rather than it being a piece of crap. Hearing people say "its the worst series ever" doesn't justify anything. Macross 7 was a popular television show in Japan. I wonder why is that? If people on this board don't like it, and yet it had a huge following in Japan, where is the disconnect? Its a valid point to be made. Kudos to Drunaa Kass because of all people here he actually stood up and said particular things that he didn't like. Each one of your argument Duke I have refuted. Replaying of songs- wrong viewing format. Mac plus a sucessor to SDF mac - also refuted. How Macross 7 is a war story? Proven. If you want to discuss, discuss what is wrong with our opinions, don't come on here and use the 1st Amendment and say that its your right to believe what you want to believe. thats just a cop out. I completely understand that people don't like it. But a lot of it as Mr March pointed out is on Perception and reputation, which Macross 7 has gotten that it doesn't deserve. I love people who go "WTF?? MONSTERS ... AW THAT SUCKS!!!" well think about SDF Macross.. "WTF 60 FOOT TALL HUMANS ?!??! COOL!". I personally don't think that Macross 7 is my favorite show. It was for awhile, but I like Plus a little better now. But I still think its pretty good, worthy of the Macross series and definately not worthy of the abuse that has been dished out here. Could basara been more flexible? maybe, but then he would lose his qualities. Anima Spiritia were made out to be something special... that were almost godlike, and only Basara and (maybe) Mylene were worthy of that title. Look at Alice whatever her name was (the other singer) her spiritia rating was waaay lower than Mylene's, and I think it was that dedication what made them great. If Basara was a flexible person then his message would not be as strong. Maybe Kawamori is trying to tell people that even if you believe in something that everybody else believes its wrong, stay the course because you will be proven right or something to that affect. Also its a contradiction as well because there are people in the military who are just as strong headed as him, and yet people love those characters... so why do you hate basara? Just because he sings rather than fights? Still I can completely see why Basara is maligned, and to be honest he is not my favorite character, give me Mylene any day over him. And yes there are issues in macross about relationships, and yes they may be deep. But the facts are, MACROSS PLUS WAS INTENDED TO FEATURE VALKS. MACROSS 7 WAS MADE FOR STORY AND CHARACTERS. Yes music plays a part but its a part in the deeper question of Pacifism and Militerism. Yes music was integral but music was a vehicle for the story. The fact that it starts off with the band first would of tipped you off. But its still a war story, that has waay more character development than Macross plus. And the war aspect of it is very important. But don't kid yourself that music and culture wasn't important in SDF either. HAd minmay not been there then there is no way that UN spacy could of won. End of story.

VF-19 = LIFE SAVER Thanks for the help.. I'll try to post pics when I am done!

my guess why it resurfaces is so that Agent one can get his free cheap shots in. If you want to contribute something go ahead agent. I'm just waiting for a reply that will actually initate some sort of brain activity.

No because the storyline for the first 15 episodes did not have a storyline per say. They generally were formulaic and did not progress the storyline forward. Only when City 7 gets taken away does the story really start to move forward. The first 15 are nothing like the rest of the series and yes do detract from the series but that is because they were meant for a different format than how they are watched today. Take the first 15 out and then the story and pacing is excellent. A lot of my opinion is shaped by the fact I watched macross 7 originally on Japanese television when It first came out. I liked it at the time, although there were other series at the time that peaked my interest. I still have the tapes of the episodes from after Valgo's death to stargazer floating around somewhere (directly off Japanese television)

Uhh yeah... crud. My really big bad, I guess I glanced over it and immediately assumed. One other thing though. I think Basara is probably the only one who hasn't changed (and I could put an argument forward that he has somewhat) I think Mylene grows up alot in the series as well. At the start she was a whiny little brat, but by the end she really starts caring about her music and others as well. her birthday party right before Stargazer kinda shows how much she has matured, in the sense that she realizes life isn't all pretty and nice. I think episode 26 when she helps Gamlin patrol the city also shows how she is starting to buy into basara's beliefs, and when they try the capture operation you see how dedicated she is to the music and the beliefs. Ray changes as well, as I think he overcomes some of the problems he has before.

I'm really sorry that I have to do this but I am stuck. I just flew home from the holidays and I brought along the YF-19 model I bought to build. I must of forgotten to put back the instruction booklet because when I arrived I had the model but no instructions. I'd like to complete it over the next few weeks, but without the instructions I'm sure I won't be able to get all the stuff right, especially with the painting scheme or the details in the cocpit, so I will have to wait till I go back to school. If it wouldn't be too much trouble, could someone please scan me the book? I'd really appreciate it

Macross plus was all about the Mecha... even Kawamori said this, and that was what It was intended for. An OAV that outspent more than any before it is not going to focus on "character development". And trying to say that a 2 hour movie has more character development than a 20 hour TV series that does have character development is bordering on ridiculous. Although there was some in plus, expecially with Guld, thats it. Really the relationship was a plot made so that Kawamori could bang around big mecha and spend lots of money. EVEN HE SAYS IT. Macross Zero is very similar. Macross seven and SDF macross try to emphasize how there are things stronger than war, such as love and emotions. The zentredi were not beaten by superior weapons, they were defeated by culture, the same as in Macross 7. Neither plus or Zero even try to do something like that, and essentially use weapons to determine the winner. Macross 7 was a war drama, I don't see how you could say otherwise. Look at Gamlin. He is a square military guy at the outset. He watches Physica and Lt. Kinryu die and probably is suffering from depression, and then he meets Basara and mylene. He doesn't understand music but slowly he does. Ray used to be in the military and is now haunted by what war did to him and his friends. The TV show really emphasizes why war is bad. Macross television show emphasized the love triangle and cool mecha which had never been seen before. Uhh maybe you have been watching Robotech, in macross only two people die, Roy and Kazikazi... thats it. eveybody else survives, the love triange, max/mil, Bridge crew, Good zentredis. ect ect. Sure Basara doesn't have much character development, but thats the point, its because he believes sooo much in his music and the effect it can have. This was the overriding theme in the story. Music was important because what I said above, its a question of pacifism vs militarism. Kawamori is really putting pacifism as the right way to go. Having Basara being a pacifist without using music or anything else would just make the television show stupid. So he does it with music. I think the Kawamori made a television show that was WAAAAAAY more deep than any gundam or most shows out there. AGAIN ITS BECAUSE YOU ARE WATCHING EPISODES BACK TO BACK that were intedended to be watched week after week. Macross 7 was made on a shoestring budget compared to plus and yes it uses repeats. Man if they thought that it was going to be watched consecutively do you think they would repeat every song on every episode? Do you think that Kawamori who had just made macross plus would be that stupid? Sheesh think about it for a second. Sigh I don't know even why I post if people aren't going to read it in discussion.

I think someone pointed out that Basara never played his guitar in a fighter until Dynamite 7. So really the controllers are there for flash. Which is fine by me. I think the Gundam esque mecha was more for psychological reasons than anything else. Look at how bad the Jamming Birds worked... because they were pretty well packaged up milterized versions of Sound force. Kawamori wanted to emphasize how you can't manufacture the effect of the true feelings that Sound Force had.

Probably but from the straight on photo the turrent looks reminicsent to a KV-1 or 2 (which had a reverse machine gun on it as well.)

Its funny because Macross 7 went over pretty well in Japan. I think its because it was designed to focus on the characters rather than the Mecha( thats what Macross Plus was for) and this doesn't go over well with people who don't like much of wider Japanese anime. I'll qualify that because that is a generalization, but for the most part it does hold true. Macross 7 is a manga series however you cut it, which for the most part focuses on people, not mecha. Look at the longest running Manga strip, its are about police officers and their lives and not about big bad mechas blowing things up. It doesn't have great animation because you can't have good character development over 4 supurbly animated 30 minute OAVs, but you can over a 40 episode season with eh level animation. The reason why there is footage and music repeats because it was assumed that viewers don't remember exactly what happend a week ago, and would like to hear Tosugeki Love heart again because its a catchy track. It also cuts down on the cost as well because series animes are expensive to make and Kawamori blew the budget on Plus. I would hazard a guess that most people haven't watched one of the more popular japanese television series because most of them aren't brought to North America. They focus on character development, not wicked special effects or cool animation that would make it an easy sell in our markets. Its the same difference between television series in England and North America. What are the most popular british television series... Eastenders; its about lower middle class people living their lives in england. Would a show like that make it over in North America? hell no. The same thing happens with macross 7. You can say its terrible series but most japanese would disagree with you. Also the plot isn't that bad. Alot of the show focuses on Pacifism versus militarism, which isn't a terribly big thing in the US but it is VERY relevant to Japanese culture. There are huge battles going on today on should Japan continue to maintain a pacifist policy or should it rearm the JSDF. The whole storyline is about that. Basara believes there is another way to settle the differences rather than fighting and his beliefs save macross 7 fleet. He wins over Gamlin, about episode 27, who figures out that figting isn't the only way to solve things. Thats what Kawamori was getting at. I personally like the music (I have a MD with only macross 7 tracks, and I still have "My Friends" on my playlist), but I was raised up with Japanese culture, so thats probably why. Macross is probably most people's first foray into Japanese pop, and they hate it. Great it isn't nirvana and it doesn't pretend to be. You don't like it, fine, but other people do. I'll give that the first 15+ episodes were not that great but thats because most of you are watching it consecutively as it wasn't inteded to be watched. Man if I watched 20 episodes of a syndicated television show consecutively I'd hate it too. Most people watched an episode week after week. So the first 3 months of it was to get people accustomed to the show. You think that sucked? Well watch Ruruoni Kenshin which is considered one of the best japanese series that was produced right at the same time. First 20 episodes of the Tokyo Arc is fillers and repeat just like Macross. then Comes the Kyoto arc which closely follow the manga, and is reaaaaaaally good, just like how Macross 7 resolves itself. I really think that most of the criticism laid at Macross 7 isn't fair, and I really wish people would just #$@# up about it. great you don't like it but saying its the most terrible Macross series isn't fair. I really disliked the person who put up the poll last week about your favorite series and left out Mac7. It had a lot of interesting parts to it and just because "the animation sucked" or "basara was an idiot" doesn't justify anything in my mind. It was never designed to be like Macross plus, and if it was made in 1981 people would probably say that it was better than the original macross. Just because SDF Macross was the first doesn't make it a sacred cow. For a Japanese series its fairly good, its not the greatest but still good. And the BDI/BCS system is not far fetched at all... We can already hook up electrodes to monkeys and have them move robotic arms. Add in Overtechnology with powerful sensing systems and miniturized computers and the system is very believable. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3186850.stm Edited for grammer and reading flow and a few more points... sorry

coming in on this as a total newb... But I think that HG can't use the VF-4 in Battroid because it had to be designed specifically for the PS1 Macross VFX in 1997. If their contract only covers the Macross TV series, then they can't touch them (pending the outcome of the derivatives issue) those rights are most definately Bandai because the design only exist for the two game lines and nowhere else. If what people say is true and that the YF-4 couldn't transform because of a "malfunction", thats reallly pathetic that they got around that through such a stupid plot hole. On Yamato... my compeltely un eduacated opinion is that they have been building "DYRL" Valkyries from that line art rather than the TV series line art. Im not too sure but I guess that gets them around the whole Macross TV issue, as the line arts could be considred different? Im not too sure about that.... but that might be my hunch. If it is true though the HG can keep the TV series... I'd take a Hikaru Strike Valk anyday.

accessively wordy and poorly written are two different things. You may be put off by the style of writing, but to claim it is poorly written is something else entirely. Would I classify Hamlet as being poorly written because it uses Elizabeathen English?

During the second world war the the Wermacht started taking damaged tanks (most of the time the turrent and the gun still operated but the drive train was smashed), fitted them in fixed positions within citites (called Festung) and used them as fixed turrents to defend against tanks. Made the tanks completely vulnerable but in time of war what can you do. I think the same thing happened here. I bet there were often damaged units which legs or engines didn't work so they just made them fixed turrents.

I'm sorry for going into this thread that is so horribly OT... but I had to point this out. Possibly the greatest english author of all time, the Lord of the Rings was voted yesterday in a BBC poll as the most readable book in English history, Tolkien was professor in English in Oxford, helped edit the Oxford english dictionary, and designed his own language ...and he is poorly written.... ...Sigh Its arguable whether or not PJ is a good director. He had one of the greatest works of all time to work with. I think its a LOT harder to say that the Lord Of the Rings is a poorly written book.

yeah I meant swallow... I'm just not thinking today

There is one HUGE advantage the VF-1 has over the SV-51... Unlimited Range. In 1944 when the Me262 Strumvogel came out, the allies new they couldn't touch it with the P-51 or P-47s. But they realized that the fighter could only do a few passes before it was nearly out of fuel. So they let the 262 do their damage and then waited until they were returing to base, and then picked them off. Since they were out of fuel... they couldn't manuver and were easy targets. Seeing that we know the VF-0 has a fuel guzzling problem, it is likely that the SV-51 has the same problem... a smart VF-1 pilot will just parry his attacks and wait till the SV-51 has to return to base, then deliver the coup de grace.

The 75 was the largest but I think they were thinking of putting a short barreled 88 on Ju88 The 75 on the HS was actually better designed than its Ju-88 counterpart as its ejected blast Gasess underneath the aircraft rather than sideways where they interferred with the airscrew blades (stalling the aircraft) the HS didn't have a stalling problem, it could fire 30 rounds per minute (thats insane) or four per pass. Most B-3s did not carry the BK 75mm , they carried the BK 3.7mm.

Not the B-3 armed with the 75mm, all indications show that most of the 50 to 60 aircraft went to the east. and From what I can tell, there was only a short time when the HS 129 were in north africa/sardinia, (and they were armed with a MK-101, which was a puny gun), then they were all removed to go to the east for operation Zitadelle at Kursk. I can't find any mention of going back. But when it was there it had a tan with leopard spots on the top, sky blue on the bottom with a white identification stripe.

Well the Box art makes it possible it could be a HS-129, Buuutt the HS-129 B-3 never was deployed to north africa, and it was September 1944 before they first got it. It could of been an Romanian HS129, but they never got a B-3 either, though they did operate in the south of Russia...so someone either made up some fictional scene... ooor its not the Henchel. (but I too think it could be the Henchel )

Spiteful/ Seafang was a beautiful plane... truly a beautiful way to finish the Spitfire line. One fighter I'd put up against it is the Do-335, which could be fastest prop fighter ever designed. It was Claude Dornier's masterpiece.. and an really smart design Back on topic It could be the JU-87 G2, it had two 37 mm Cannons under the wings in pontoons. The Me-210/410 also had a underslung cannon, I think it was a 37 as well. The HS-129 normally did not carry the 75 MM cannon, most of the time it carried either bombs or a smaller 30 mm cannon. Less than 60 were probably producded carrying the 75 MM cannon. As a side note, the HS-129 almost didn't happen. The first version was SEVERLY underpowered and the small cockpit that gave pilots poor vision and headaches.

Storywise, I'll give you that, robotech is not a story worth following, and since it is giving more money to my dreaded enemy HG, don't buy i on those grounds. Artwise is another matter, I think that Robotech lucked out in getting him as an artist, and if anything he will be the sole redeeming quality of that comic book will have. He draws in a manga style which would go well with a faux japanese style that symbolizes robotech.

sorry to dredge this thread up, but I found out that there are two artists at work here. Tak Miyazawa does the character drawings. He also does Uncanny X-men, coming out on wendsday. The other guy (who I do not know his name), does the mecha frames. Thats why there is a different style of art to it.

Hey Aeigis, your soo right, he is such a troller... http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame29.html sheesh some people....