Noyhauser

or maybe the Jamming bird custom?

Okay I've read over this and I wanted to make one point

Probably the main reason why VF-1 wouldn't have a Melee weapon is because it already has an effective short ranged weapon with unlimited ammo- its head lasers. It would also make more sense why the 1A could not effectively use its lasers shooting forward, while the J and S could. Cannon Fodder would not be expected to get close in and survive. Head lasers are probably more powerful than punching, and have a better traverse (especially in the J and S versions. Since the VF-11's head laser is far more limited than the VF-1's was, it would make sense that it could use a anti armor bayonet.

Macross Plus was all about character-developments and deep, twisted, and involved plots. The mechas in Plus were very secondary.

Maybe you should read more about the series themselves. A 2 hours OAV series cannot have anywhere close to the character development that a 24 hour long series does. Thats why they both came out at the same time. Macross Plus does have a plot and some character development, but it was primarily inteneded to be a showcase VFs and be an action movie. That cannot be disputed. The Mechas in Plus were right up front. IT STARTS OFF AS A COMPETITION BETWEEN TWO NEW FIGHTERS. How can it be secondary when Guld and Isamu engage in battle for approxomately 40% of the whole series? At the time Macross plus was the most expensive OAV to date, and it had no expenese spared in animating the valks including some of the first effectively integrated Computer animation (unlike the Return Of Char, where it was very gimmicky)

Macross 7 was completely different. Its premise was based on development of characters and plot. the overriding theme is war and pacifism, which in Japan is a very big deal. If you are interested read this thread I expand on it in there.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=4039&hl=

Don't rely on my ego, rely on the fact that I work in Marketing and people pay me money to make assessments like this.

So you are making marketing assumptions without any real knowledge of time slot of the television show, the market or even the intentions of the creator. How do I know these things? Because I was in Japan during the summer of 1995 watching the show.

Honestly you are shooting from the hip because you don't like it and think its funny making one lined stupid comments about it. At least Keith does have something to say about the series. You on the other hand don't bring anything to the table except "gay this, Pink that." the DNA quote above is a perfect example.

If you have something relevant to say to the discussions, not your own opinion which is well known to all of us, by all means share it.

Because macross 7 wasn't about mecha... they played a secondary roll behind the characters in the story. That was the difference beween macross-7 and Plus and why they were released at the same time. Macross 7 was intended to be a Manga show for television with Character development and a deep plot, Plus was intended as a mecha based show that showed off the signatures of the series the VF-19 and 21.

Probably the most overwhelming aspect of production for UN Spacy is the Factory Satellite. If the thing is the size of the moon as some people have claimed (even if its 1/3rd) it would have absolutely fantastic production capabilities. And most of this production capabilities would be very high tech. That would be how UN Spacy is able to build so many Colony vessels. However once on their own, colony ships and colonies would have far more limited production capabilities, usually centered around the Three star ships, which takes significant amounts of time to construct things. Thats why Macross 7 was still using VF-11/ Vf-17 rather than Vf-19/ Vf-22s.

Sorta, but just with little kids, which after all was its target audience.

Can you provide facts prove your assertion that to refute what I wrote above, or should i just rely on your ego as the source of this claim.

Do you even know what channel Mac 7 was played on and at what times?

Mac 7 did decently well. Part of it undoubtedly had to do with the co release schedual of the Macross Plus OAVs, attracted more support.

The "morphing wings" are only a YF-21 exclusive and considering that this thread is about the VF-22...

maybe. I can also see special versions (stuff that the VF-X ravens would use) having Mission Adaptive wings. Its the cost of the wings themselves that make it expensive, which means that there is no reason why a VF-22 couldn't be fitted with them. moreover, the Immense productive capacity of the Factory Satellite probably makes the cost of them negligble. For most other manufacturing centers (like Three Stars), manufacturing the wings probably are too expensive.

For the best of the best (aka UN Spacy SAS) im sure no costs are too much.

Is the VF-22s further advanced in it's fighting capability than it's YF-22 predecessor since by all accounts on the MW forums that VF-19 is the more advanced valk but when then do Max, Milia and Gamlin fly the VF-22s instead of a VF-19?

by all accounts? Uhh what threads have you been reading? In almost every thread I've been in, its the 21/maybe 22 that rocks over the 19

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=2328&hl=

this is probably the best thread on this topic.

remember... Mission Adaptive wing technology kicks ass.

Doesn't mean that it can''t be from the general shape.

Advanced valkyrie chronicals ---> Macross 7 Vartua would be a similar idea.

From what I can see, the only thing that doesn't match is teh superstructure... the nose is perfect. It may be a direct Predecssesor to or a different flight of class.

I don't think that Kawamori had a specific design for this ship... I bet it was just a small doodle that he gave the animators. Whatever we say here is certainly non Cannon.

pinned??? why?? Bashing Macross 7 is fun! it's so crappy that it deserves everything it gets.... and by the way, what's the problem with having the same thing on different treads? it's the fun of it that matters

PINNED MEANS PUT AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE, NOT CLOSED.

Why should it be pinned? Because honestly it comes up So many times and the same stupid arguments come up. comments like this

Before I start downloading it and watching M7, I already know I shouldn't have high expectation on it. I knew it is targeted to below 12 audience, so I watch it just as a past time and threat it like yet another super robot cartoon. I didn't bash on the quality of the anime or the recycle of clips, I understand that's just a low-budget TV series. I didn't bash much on the robot design, view it from another prepsective, the mecha is still kinda cool.

IT WASN'T DESIGNED FOR 12 YEAR OLDS. IT was designed as a character based series, probably shounen and above. I don't like repeating the same answers over and over again. This thread

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=4039&hl=

is the best thread out there because people made pretty in depth arguments about it. My first post explains the deeper thoughts behind it like Pacifism, and other Japanese themes. Do you honestly believe its a show for 12 year olds when it makes fun of Mylene saying "enjo kosai" to Max in episode 30 (or 31)? You would have to at least be 14 to undestand the whole concept, and probably over 16 to even get a laugh out of it. Most people who bash it honestly don't have a conception of deeper trends in Japanese society. The people who do, I accord great respect to your opinions and I have no problem with you at all. Thats the Drunken Skass'and Duke Togos of the boards. But most just get to the point of "it different, I don't like it", well its different for a reason. If the deeper theme goes over your head thats because you don't understand what the deeper themes are. Which takes a while to explain WHY it is different. If it was pinned at the top we could just point to the thread instead of having to rewrite it. There must be at least one every two weeks on here.

I said it before, I think its the Algenix cruisers we see in M3.

Yeah I was about to say so.... I don't see why this topic isn't pinned. This is the 8th time I've seen this topic brought up, and I'd say put them all together and it would be a longer thread than the HG vs BW thread. I'd say that people feel more strongly about this than that thread anyways.

Can a mod please explain why it hasn't been pinned already?

Edited because I can't think clearly at 1:30 in the morning.

Thats 10 seconds of my life that you have forever wasted... I won't be getting them back either.....

pfft.

Dream Pod 9's Jovian Chronicals has some pretty sick designs although its a roleplaying minature game.

My favorite is the Valliant Strke Carriers

(these images don't do it justice)

remember that VFs probably see completely different conditions than regular fighters, they often walk on ground, skim at very low altitude, swim (god I can't belive Kawamori allowed it to swim......) ect. I'd expect the weathering to be far more advanced than regular fighters.

1995

......Over the next several years, the Tomcats are initially upgraded to the F-14A+ Kai, and are later replaced by the F-203 Dragon II in 2003. During this time, the name of the Jolly Roger Squadron is changed to the Skull Squadron and young pilot Roy Fokker joins the VF-84.

The Kai probably appeared after 2000.... According to the Compendium, the F-14 Kai was likely an F-14 A+2 (plus) enhanced with Overtechnology, therefore it must have originated from after 1999. This is from the Compendium

http://www.anime.net/macross/mecha/united_.../f14/index.html

PROGRAMME: First flight of development aircraft 1970 December 21. Total number produced: 575. Service life extended with upgrades implementing Overtechnology in avionics and other areas.

VARIANTS:

F-14A+2 (also F-14A+(Plus)Kai): Improved upgrade version deployed as a main fighter in the United Nation Forces

Also remember a lot of the individuals can live in like dormatory like accommodations, like what Hikaru's apartment looks like in DYRL. Some of them might also live in the ARDMs and also in the body of the ship.

Must... resist urge... to make... political.... analysis.

remember that Ballistics Missiles are made from very high quality metals to withstand launching and atmospheric ascent, probably the worst thing you want to go up against with a laser....

he big question is if the guidance system really can track a missile going that fast, long enough to destroy it---the laser isn't a "bolt" like in Star Wars, it needs several seconds of continuous contact to destroy the missile---NOT easy to do----a missile only a few feet across, miles away, moving at Mach 20---to KEEP a laser beam tracked on to it while it's moving (and the 747's moving as well).

Technical feasability is the biggest ABL detractor. You've pointed out tracking, which MAYBE possible to remedy with ultra powerful computers to handle the calculations. But even if this happens, the countermeasures to negate it are extremely easy to implement, the missile just needs to spin so that the laser can't burn through one point in the hull.

^^^DOOD if your going to do anything right you've got to use a photo

no their remote controlled VF-11, I think QF-11 is their designation, though I might be wrong.

#1 by far is Info High

with the YF-19 streaking into the atmosphere, just when its starts you get that chill down your neck that that the final showdown is going to start.

Angel Paint from FB-2012

My Friends from Mac-7

and of course Ai Oboete Imasu Ka

It was delivered last month...don't you guys read Airpower and keep up with Aviation news?

Maybe you should read the news. As Ewilian posted this shows exactly why the program might not get deployed.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04391.pdf

The GAO knows far more about these issues than airpower ever will. Note that this rreport was written last month.

Moreover, even if a initial rate production is carried out, only 150 can be built maximum because they don't have anymore chips, to build the avionics suites. So we won't see the next batch until 2010 at the earliest, if at all.

first of all the arms limitations idea reminds me of the washington treaty after WWI. That went out the window when most of the countries figured WWII was imminent.

HAve you ever heard of the Conventional Forces Europe Agreement? Likely one of the most effective arms control treaties ever created and nobody ever talks about it.

Edit: moreover the Washington treaty Had major effects on Naval power. It effectively ended the reign of the Battlships as world powers sought to get around its restrictive texts, which pushed the development of the Carrier as its alternative. It set off a heavy cruiser arms race, which the Japanese led. The only gross abrogation was the Japanese and the Yamatos starting in 1936, but for the most part every nation followed its quotas and size restriction. Really it was the Japanese and to a lesser extent, the Germans that tested the treaty, however its affects were widespread and it was an effective treaty in its aims.

second of all there are limitations to prop planes.

broad wings are used to provide lift for the air the prop sends back. The wings limit speed where as a swept wing or delta can acheive better speeds.

there is only so much horse power you can get from a radial or turbo prop. its preformance is way below that of modern jet engines. Reliability is a problem too.

Uhh I think that was tounge and cheek we all know that... we've talked to the ends of the earth about aerodynamics.