Noyhauser

I was just about to go to bed when.... I've asked you this before and I'll ask ALL of you to say this again. THREAT? WHAT IS YOUR THREAT? There is NO NEED for the F-22 in the next decade, ESPECIALLY given the full range of capabilities that the US has. Not one of you can come up with one possible threat will have the capabilities to wipe a US air expeditionary force out of the sky... because the only one is china, and honestly if you want to argue that one be my guest... Many of the same arguements many of you put up were similar to the ones in the 1950s when it was thought that vast armadas of Soviet nuclear bombers being built that were going to come over the poles and nuke north america. 1960 rolls around U2 flights show that the USSR has barely a fraction of the bombers that people claimed. Billions of dollars that could have been used to adress the real threat (the impending missile gap, which later was overblown as well) was devoted to the Air defence of North America, which Provided us with all those great interceptors for Vietnam, and not enough funding for strategic rockets. Thats what happens when threat analysis isn't properly carried out and you get useless procurement programs that just waste money. What war is the F-22 going to fight? Really the F-22 was built for a war that was won 15 years ago. The F-22 is perfect to fight the Field Manual 100-5 Operations Airland Battle from 1982. The F-22 was built to stop a massive soviet attack on NATO airfields and be able to penetrate Soviet airspace, to fight against huge odds of fighters. How many countries do you think the US is going to fight in the next 10 to 15 years will have those sort of SAM capabilities that the US will be unable to neutralize, or that we would be outnumbered so significantly that the US would need to fight with stealth because it could not operate near the front lines? I really await your answer. The US military is going to be fighting small wars for quite some time, given each and every policy document that has been put out. I'm sure troops on the ground in Iraq will be happy to hear that their body armor/next generation APC ect, is being pushed back because the airforce needs another fighter to defend the air superiority over their heads right now... Why the would you have it at lakenheath? really thats an off shore deployement that costs WAAAY more money, and is nowhere near any sort of potential battlefield that the F-22 would have no range to deploy to. Its 4 hours more and far cheaper to keep them on any base on the east coast. Kadena is marginally better, but I'd rather chose guam or Diego Garcia which are closer to potential target areas for the F-22 (even though I can't imagine who would be foolish enough to strike them or even have the capabilities to do so)

The creators of Macross, Studio Nue have specified these things. The Japanese text says rocket not missile. In Macross, the company is called Bifors, unlike the real life Bofors. Truth about designs and respect for the creators is something to care about. I really hate to say this, but please we don't need you going around and correcting each and every error on the models forum, especially if you don't build them. For the purpose of the kit It doesn't really matter especially if it goes by the line art. I don't mean to be an ass, but its kinda annoying. We are happy enough to get these kits made in the first place, and just because you can pick out an error in its name (which has little to do with the cast) is not a modeling problem per say.If you want to make a thread about it nanashi, do it in the Movie and TV series thread please.

I think that was my #1 gripe actually. For example I only build 1/72 scale models and for years I had to suffer building the REALLY poor Revell HE-162 kits because they were the only company who built them. I spent ages accurizing them. We ALL have stories like this... like the F-14D issues that dave has pointed out. Having a missile pod that is definately inaccurate, and a hardpoint that "may" be inaccurate to me is so trivial, when you look at the absolute beauty and the overall accuracy of the model. I'd be far more recieving if he actually HAD built one, like HWK and his battroid missile problem.

I personally felt it was more of an attack, especially after the Club-M/Tanmen comment. You're right that its an interpretation, but wasn't it mentioned somewhere that Kawamori signed off on the Hasegawa designs? If it is true I doubt that ClubM had the same privledge, I certainly doubt that Tanmen has either. If the biggest gripe people have is the "optional" missile pod not having a reverse missile, thats pretty tame. I can see the hardpoint thing maybe, but I'm pretty sure there are conflicting line art versions out there... so to say that its a shame that hasegawa didn't follow X interpretation over y interpretation is splitting hairs, and is a bit much. Sure Hasegawa's models have more details than the animation, but thats also because of cost of the animation itself. AS was said in the other thread, up close fighters have panels everywhere, rivets and the like. Animators, and even shoji Kawamori don't have time to draw every single panel line on a fighter. As budgets go up, more and more detail gets put on, but never like what a real vehicle has. I think Macross Zero made it perfectly clear that VFs are fairly normal fighters in their requirements and designs, so that the VF-1 likely has these sort of details on them, but we never seen them before.

Personally I love the Hase, models. I've got a few just waiting for construction, to go along with my already built ones.For Hasegawa, a company that has staked its claim on the modeling market based on realism and quality, to be doing Macross kits speaks volumes about the kits themselves. It was a dream come true when I first got a YF-21 in 1/72 scale. I don't think I've ever been as ecastic... except when I was building it. One of my friends is an excellent excellent 1/48th scale WW-2 plane modeler. He thinks science fiction modeling is "the dark side." But I told him that the most advanced kits hasegawa makes right now are the Macross line. I showed him the sprue and he was blown away. I had to buy him one for christmas because I knew he wanted it. I think the Accuracy far surpasses any plastic kit and they are only surpassed by ONE resin kit. http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=12597 I think the biggest rant was a certain member who picked apart the model for its exact line art specifications. Actually the comments pissed me off to some degree. If the VF-1 was a REAL vehicle I think he may have had a legitimate gripe, but in truth it isn't and the Hase VF-1 is one of the closest interpretations you can get... by a company which makes some ofthe most accurate models in the world. To be honest I found some of the points he made were not very informed and did not reflect the truth behind how good hase models are. I know I should have said something in that thread, but I'll say it here.

I think the same question could be asked even if they did carry lasers back when episode 4 came out.

Well there is some stuff from the Japanese magazines that may be of help these ones are designed to transform... thefore I they must use the wings from fighter mode.

... I know... and I want one BAD.

I think its the companys fault actually... and partly due to as well to called the "core" market group of these companies. I think the comic book format is too slow and unwieldly to be an effective seller. I look at the Japanese manga market, and its prospering right now.. why? Three reasons: its accessable ( everybody can buy it at any corner store: 7/11 lawsons ect at very low prices), it has broad ranging appeal (not just superheroes but romances, political drama ect.. they translate harlequins into manga now) and finally its fast... you can get a new installment every week if it is in a weekly publication. Manga's pulpiness IS its appeal... and it works. And I think that comic books are really none of these things. Storylines are long and ponderous, often requiring you to buy several books that take months if not years to develop... for the same price of one comic book you can buy one manga with several strips. Really comics rehash the superhero based story lines, that have limited appeal to all but the 13~45 age group of men. Even love stories and the like are based in a superpower world. And although there are real gems out there for storytelling, many are not that deep. The style of comics reflect the art, at expense of story telling... taking a month for 15 pages of carefully inked cells with detailed backgrounds. I really think the last point is its worst detractor. In a time when we do have such a fast moving society, having something come out so slowly just puts new customers off. having an issue every week or even two weeks would make the product far more accessable. The real problem for these companies is to make the shift over to this new business model... which is very uncertain. I think though that it has to be done gently and slowly... rush into it and it will fail. Oh if you think I'm out to lunch, A very good friend of mine is a pencilist for marvel, and he'll tell you the exact same things. Hell he's trying to do that right now.

ahhh the operation of the pentagon... love it Jumper "Yes thats right Mr Rumsfeld... these F-35s, they are just so capable... that we need less of them!!! and with the money we save, we can buy more F-22s instead!" Rumsfeld inner voice :"Uhhuh who does he take me for?" Rumsfeld outervoice " GREAT. well that means they'll be cheaper and more effective to buy than the F-22! ... great going jumper! you've served your country well... get me the OMB on the phone" Jumper: "But! but!"

Likely the wave 1/100 http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/models...ave_yf21128.jpg

oooh someone who speaks the lingo... nice to see.

Not to wade too deep into the field of politics. One thing you don't see is that Rumsfeld and especially Wolfowitz has angered not so much the democrats, but a wing of the traditional foreign policy establishment of the Republican party... Realists, who dominated policy thinking up until very recently. These individuals guided policy through the Cold War, and see the neo cons as blatant idealists who have guided american foreign policy into areas it should have never gone. These are guys like Brent Scowcroft, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Richard Hass, in and outers like Mearshimer and others. Although they may not have influence in the White house, they have plenty of prestige and influence in Congress.Some are in the White House already (Rice and Cheney) but they have move towards the Neo-conservatism over realist tenets... I think you might not see Rumsfeld walk, but I think some of the neocons may lose their positions.

... yawn Macross really represents the edge of my Mecha believability.... This just jumps way over it. I'm WAAAAAAY more excited for the next adaptation of a Yoshiki Tanaka novel (the guy wrote Legend of the Galactic Heroes) Titania. Mikimoto is reportedly doing the character drawings for it.

Ah, not from wales it isn't Happy new year to all, and my your new year bring you and your families all the best.

See this is what I love about japan. Mechanics and the sort watched anime too, they will build stuff like this for fun... I wish I could build a scopedog.

I just want you guys to see how deep the pentagon cost cutting is One less carrier http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=...80&section=news and a whole lot less of other stuff. http://www.nytimes.com/learning/students/p...30military.html

What is the most lucrative fighter program for the US defence industry? Its certainly not the f-22, it was the F-16 because of its massive foreign sales. When you have foreign sales your return is far more than if you build a fighter for yourself because you don't pay O&M costs. The F-35 will become the next F-16... everybody is buying into it. Moreover over 20% of its development costs have been paid for by other countries, so its not that large a drain on the Military budget. If you kill the F-35 the development of the US military aircraft industry will be dead. You think that there are problems now with not enough f-22s, there will not be compeditive companies available 10 years down the line to design a new fighter when the real threat appears.

If the Raptor does get canned I think there will likely be some sort of standby program that keeps essential elements of the program together in reserve until a next generation fighter program is launched. The problem with the War in Iraq is that you will be seeing its effects for quite some time. Even if the deployments ended right now, you'd be paying for replenishing stocks of weapons, veterans pay outs, ect for at least the next 3 to 5 years.

again Shin you can't can the JSF project or you will demolish the US aircraft industry in one blow. Not just in military aircraft but in Civillian production. Confidence in US defence manufacturers would plummet and then when newer russian and Chinese fighters come on line (because I've said this before, the current batch is not a threat to the US) the US won't have a compeditive fighter industry to rely on. the F-22 is Not that needed. There isn't a major threat that requires a plane of such sophistication for the next 20 years. I've said this before the only reason why a FB program is on the books is to keep US industry compeditive.... thats it... there is not enough research dollars available to keep the industry afloat as is. Given the war on iraq the massive US deficit, military spending will be the first to go. There is no options. Here is an excellent article detailing why http://www.economist.com/agenda/displaySto...tory_id=3524771

Thats the thing about rummy, say what you want on his strategic analysis, his view on programs is very spot on. In some way he would have been a better Sec Defence during the Clinton years. He sees threat perceptions and he goes with it. He rightly nixed the crusader and the Commanche... the F-22 is likely next. Also remember the the 22 is going to require a costly avionics upgrade for its next batch, because they ran out of 286 chips to equip the original avionics suite. They were going to adapt the JSF's avionics for the 22 but then you are going to have to test it and redesign the hardware/software. So if there was any time to cut the program, it is now.

Yeah but Israel is a special case. Its kills there are almost always against lesser number of opponents (they have numbers in the air), with the aid of E-2s control, perfect maintenence, and most importantly excellent training and constant flight experience. I can see the IAF achieving those numbers quite easily. Iran may have some of these things, but really not all of them. Iraq wasn't a pushover like Syria would be. It had training from soviet advisors and their planes were fairly good. 150-3 till ratio just doesn't seem to fit the nature of the battle in the Iran/Iraq war (Iraq almost always having the Technical and planning edge in any battle)

No I don't doubt that they did shoot down a lot... but 153-3 is REALLY out there. I don't think the IAF has that sort of numbers... I think the need for independent confirmation is there... and it doesn't exist. They may have inflated their numbers back then and now take it as fact. I'm not doubting the Cat's effectiveness, just that a 50 to 1 kill ratio is stastically, very very very very improbable. Also shooting down a Mig25 at speed isn't that impressive. Remember the Pheonix is intended to shoot down high speed anti ship missiles that don't really make much turns just run in a straight line. A Mig-25 at speed is effectively the same thing, just alot bigger (and not at sea level). It can't really dodge or do much except release Chaff... if it sees it.. Its really a matter of physics for the Pheonix.

Love that quote. I should go on that board to talk about life cycle costs, and spiral acquisition schemes and the sort. They may get a kick out of listening to the Bureacratic side of the topic. I'd also be VERY wary of iranian claims, Airforce or not. Iran used propaganda to increase the morale of their soldiers which they used human wave attacks against Iraq (to great effect mind you) and they heavily regulated the press. For example at the battle of Susangird the Iranians suffered a terrible defeat, losing 100 tanks (Cheftains and M-60s) several thousand men, and most ominously 150 captured (these were ideologically motivated troops.... capturing Iranian soldiers was rare). The Revolutionary council said instead that they destroyed two Iraqi Brigades and captured 1500 troops... which was utter nonsense. This was a common thread among all battles regardless of service or outcome. Even the army was played up, when they trusted the Revolutionary guard (the army was the most distrusted service in Iran, far more than the Airforce) so I'd be extremely wary about those claims. I'll see what I can dig up on the topic in the next few days.

Its an indigenously developed Chinese Anti ship cruise missile- 100KM range, can be launched from medium to heavy bombers or from ground emplacements. Its pretty big... not so good