Noyhauser

Yes, much like prisoners who've been tortured into capitulation. They are brought to a point where they "want" to help the bad guys... 417702[/snapback] or commit suicide, wichever comes first or fits into their morale honestly at first i thaught Basara was just giving everyone headaches, then it seemed like Sivil was getting off to his music... strange concept, but it sure looked that way after a bit with the way she began to react 417707[/snapback] That's what I was thinking. 1) She kept describing her reactions as "This... feeling" (on my sub anyway), not "the pain" or something like that. Perhaps its the equivalent of "He makes me feel funny down there..." 2) She keeps going back for more, her reaction is *squint, squint, gasp, tense-up, convulse, gasp, scream* 3) She keeps wanting to make out with Basara while in possessed humans. 4) She shouts "Ecstasy!" when she does finally kiss him. (again, on my sub) I'm on the Lux episode now, haven't been able to watch it for a few days. I actually didn't realize the City 7 dome was a barrier! Is there any documentation on this? This does make more sense in terms of the show. At first I though that infiltration group hit one of the docking bays, and there were just enough to occupy the next few shows worth of action. I thought it was weird b/c we see footage of Elgerzorines blasting through windows on the other ships, but they just show up all the time on the Macross. A big barrier bubble doesn't necessarily seem like a great idea, though - it better have a super-dang-stable, dedicated reactor. And again, if this keeps happening, shouldn't closing the shell be standard procedure whenever the bad guys fold in? 417713[/snapback] It isn't... its solid. You see it best when Basara is sitting on it during planet lux playing his guitar. it even sounds solid when he walks on it. Or when Gigil infiltrates flying past Diamond squad he attacks it and it explodes. Pretty conclusive its some sort of tranparent material

Well as you pointed out, the F-414 wasn't a sure bet. the Super Hornet is seen as a generally successful example of modern procurement. I believe it was implemented using Cost as an Independant Variable managment, and was basically on cost and delivery without major flaws... which is a bit surprising when you look at other programs today. Imagine all the gripes you guys would give it IF it was overbudget and delayed? I'm almost assured that there will be a F-414 spiral to it, if it already isn't happenening today. In a 2003 article penned by the F/A-18E/F's project manager, he hints that there might be one.

hmm the way I read it seemed to me that he just reverted to the original argument, without acknowledging the point, that it did have spinoffs, he (or anybody else) hasn't responded to it.

Do you not read posts? seriously... Without Macross-7 the Digital mission vfx series could not have occurred. So much of its story line, units and universe was derived from Macross-7. Then there is SRW, and the prominent place that Sound Bomber plays in that game. And if you want to talk about popularity, macross 7 had more spin offs than any other series.... it had a 4 piece OVA, a movie, and a manga follow it... thats better than SDF macross.

Oh It was aimed at you and a general group. You've been quite happy to say you don't like it at all... look at your statements on Page 8. If you don't like it, why even debate? I mean seriously you should just point out you don't like it and leave because you're not open to any other argument except to hear that it sucks. Look at your whole Chemical Secretions argument. Three people replied about how Spiritia was some sort of life source ... and yet you just keep hammering some sort of idiotic tangent. You (and others) ignore the good points people make and just go on different tacts about what is wrong with the series. So, you aren't here to argue reasonably, you're here to point out every single flaw the series. Hey while you're at it, why don't you complain about Star Wars, because the Force can't occur because the human body is basically one biological chemical combustion engine.

Nothing is wrong with arguments persay. However at times you haven't even tried to engage in arguments, you'd rather just come in here and state how horribly stupid the series is without hearing the other side. Thats not an argument, and in large doses it can be disasterous for a forum (to the extent that not talking about it is better for it.)Were all for "arguments" when people want to discuss, but many people don't want to, rather beat their own drum.

Also because you seem to keep forgetting that Macross 7 was never intended to be action series, because Macross Plus was being produced at the same time. Story based anime probably don't make the best material for action video games. Macross 7 did have follow-up Manga and movies too, which in some ways can be compared to SDF macross and DYRL. 416550[/snapback] heh Mac plus had a shoddy PS1 game to.. i found it while in japan (twad looking for DYRL but never found it while i was there ) aint played much, but i call it shoddy only cause it was pre-analog controls PS1 if they took Mac7 from Gamlin or someone elses perspective, itd make a decent game at best, as the sound force thing would make a crappy thing unless they went DDR on us! but once ya get to the Protodeviln parts... itd be beyond gimped as Macross Mecha vs giant monsters = guhay 416552[/snapback] Umm you seem to be forgetting that Macross 7 has the most new designs of all the series (and not introduced as the gundam MS of the week way, but as a normal progression). Vartua mecha and their fleet, which were some of the most interesting designs (especially since they were rip offs of UN spacy fighters like the VA-14s). Moreover they had some of the best ship to ship combat, where fleets were knocking each other down. Though the series emphasis was on the story, it still had some pretty sweet designs, which contradict some people claims that it wasn't well thought out, these things added great background to the series. In reality the game did spawn alot of follow on games. the Digital mission VF-X series would not have happened if Macross 7 came along because half of their mecha were from that series. the VF-22, Vf-17, the VF-11 Full Armor, the VA-3 are all Macross-7 mecha.

Also because you seem to keep forgetting that Macross 7 was never intended to be action series, because Macross Plus was being produced at the same time. Story based anime probably don't make the best material for action video games. Macross 7 did have follow-up Manga and movies too, which in some ways can be compared to SDF macross and DYRL.

So how often did they battle the PD in an atmosphere compared to space? As for the mouse argument, well I have speakers that look like speakers and they produce sound, not luminosity or Anima Spiritia... The fact that the series tended to have the PD army actually hearing the music whether they had a speaker pod imbedded in their ship or not, is what tends to blur the common sense aspect of the series. However, I fully appreciate the fact that the target audience didn't care about the "credibility" of the tech, but enjoyed the show as it was. They didn't spend half as much time thinking about such matters as some people do typing up defenses to questionable artistic licenses the production team took with an early adolescent targeted program... 415021[/snapback] I find it ironic that you can't grasp a basic concept that "sound energy/anima spiritia" is different from "sound." Its is clearly stated in the series (its introduced in the episode where the spirita backpack is given to Basara by Doctor Chiba). It was clearly stated in the series, and everything in the series (the creation of elaborate sound beams and fields, as well as making the macross cannon a HUGE sound booster shows that this is purely physical sound energy. I don't disagree there was some beliavabilit and artistic licence taken with "Sound energy"... like when we see it protect Gamlin from an energy attack from a PD. but its definately not "physical sound." Ignore that all you want, because its pretty conclusive that "sound energy" is something different alltogether than sound, and was coherently stated throught the whole series as such. Also, I put down the fact that Vartua pilots hear the music to two things. First I'd say that some of the sound can be attributed to bad sound editing in production (not the first time its happened). Other times its clear that they cannot hear the broadcasts. Think of the episode where they use speaker pod Gamma vs the mother ship. The sound usually cuts off with scenes inside vartua ships, which makes it pretty clear that the Vartua have machines that prevent them from hearing sound broadcasts. Exposure to music (like when they infiltrate City 7) often caused them to lose control (usually described as Abnormal C Chord error, or something like that).

So did SDF Macross... maybe even moreso. And from what I seen the toys are terrible, but some of the models, and specifically resin stuff are amazing. The Tect kits, and Wave vinyls, are some of my favorite kits out there.

Then you don't really have much of a point at all. You made two points. #1 Impractical technology My rebuttal: Its no less impractical than a lot of other mainstream sci-fi, particularly gundam. And To be perfectly frank, I cringed watching the VF-0 Diving into the water... so I'm not oblivious to these things. #2 Stupid story. My rebuttal: Thats really a subjective comment... but you haven't even responded to my earlier comments and see fit to ignore them, which leads me to believe you really don't want to consider other opinions, and rather come here and bash it. I don't think Mac-7 is the be all and end all of Anime (far from it), but I think you're treating it unfairly though given what the story is about. Its clear that its themes are basically the same ones that are found in SDF macross... I think it has execution problems, but its certainly not god awful (especially when the story picks up). 3 years into this argument, and I have yet to see one clear argument that puts macross 7 in the "kiddie" category. Young teen, more like it (which is the demographic almost every major anime series is aimed towards)

Your example is not equivalent to the situation you initially describe. And its certainly not as impractical as you make out... its no less impractical than warp drives (given our current knowledge of astrophysics), and CERTAINLY no less believable than "newtype energy" that is introduced in UC Gundam. IT never was said that what was emitted by Sound boosters was "sound" travelling through space, rather it was some sort of energy that could resonate sound. The Protodevilin series was always about the protoculture tapping into some sort of newly discovered energy source eminating from another dimention, that they had limited knowledge of. The protodevilin were essentially bio machines that used this advanced power source. Also from what we have seen in Macross zero, 7 DYRL, the protoculture's esthetics were highly stylized with an organic, primitive and biomechanical feel to them. The AFOS showed the mechanical aspects of this, and the protodevilin follow this design philosophy. (Note for LVlurker. I don't care what you have to say, so don't bother giving me some long winded reply on some arcane level of gundam knowledge. You're wasting your time)

Or in the bun. Blech. 414160[/snapback] nobody likes juice in the bun Think we need to lock this thread now. its gone beyond is usefullness. 414181[/snapback] nah, not yet...debating over condiments on burgers is kinda fun for once.. 414216[/snapback] The sad part is that we're actually having a good debate for once on M-7. No trolls or anything. But then someone has to go and ruin it.

Well Anime prevalance culture in Japan isn't as mainstream as one would think in the west. Its always been offshoot of the mainstream. I suspect though that the people who are the most into Macross 7 you might not meet that often, as they would be my age back then 10~15, and now in their early 20s. Manga's prevalence on the other hand...

Do you have an answer to that, or is that an idle musing? From all I've seen its was a decently popular show. I know at the time it was... though I think it was overshadowed by many other shows at the time.... I believe kenshin was playing at that time too. I think it suffered though in its timeslot. If I remember correctly it was late afternoon on Saturdays or sundays. But its still got a following. The re-occurring inclusion of Macross-7 in popular references (like SRW, and cameos) would seem to indicate to me that it was a popular show.

You kinda gota understand its not the quantity but the quality that counts, if shoji got all the money and funding he put threw mac7 and place it threw a differnt project you would get something like mac+ or Mac0. for example the 3d fx they used for M+ was some realy complicated stuff they came up with back in 94, also you have to remember the animation quality and the replayed action scenes they used was to save some labor and money. 413863[/snapback] No I think people understand the "quality" vs "quantity" argument however you don't understand that Mac + and M-7 were released at the same time, with very different aims. Whereas Mac+ was intended as pure eye/mecha candy rehashing Kawamori's unreleased Advanced Valkyrie chonicles story (or whatever its called) Mac-7 was intended more to tell a story, and focus on character development. Macross Plus ate a phenominal part of the budget up... it had bells and whistles like CG that ate up the budget.Macross 7 didn't have that money but it didn't need it. It wasn't supposed to be about the mecha (even though it had the most of any series) it was about the characters and story telling anyway. Whats the point animating complex battle scenes when it wasn't even a focus of the story, and you don't have the money anways? 413871[/snapback] Well that would be a good counter point if Macross 7 actually had a good story. It may have focused on it, and it did, but that doesn't make it an automatic winner. 413882[/snapback] Yes but as Sketchly pointed out somewhere earlier Macross 7 is really a more japanese show than most others. (And one that is interesting because it occurred during a period of fundamental upheaval in Japanese culture.) Though I disagree that its a fundamentally kid oriented show. Its main theme of pacifism mixed based in popular culture and fundamental distrust of the military is something thats not really applicable anywhere else in the world. Not even Germany today would really get it. You also have to look at the timing of Macross 7 (I was in Japan at the time). 1995 is very soon after the implosion of the Japanese Economy, greater social freedoms for younger people, and the end of the Cold War... its a time when the japanese don't know where they are going. However even more importantly its the 50th anniversary of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Doesn't it seem a tad ironic that the use of nuclear weapons in the story is shown to be completely useless? I'll agree that parts of the story weren't well done... the first 10~15 episodes, could have been condensed. I still think though that these problems aren't nearly as bad when you watch them on a week to week basis, rather than cramming them all in 4 hours.

You kinda gota understand its not the quantity but the quality that counts, if shoji got all the money and funding he put threw mac7 and place it threw a differnt project you would get something like mac+ or Mac0. for example the 3d fx they used for M+ was some realy complicated stuff they came up with back in 94, also you have to remember the animation quality and the replayed action scenes they used was to save some labor and money. 413863[/snapback] No I think people understand the "quality" vs "quantity" argument however you don't understand that Mac + and M-7 were released at the same time, with very different aims. Whereas Mac+ was intended as pure eye/mecha candy rehashing Kawamori's unreleased Advanced Valkyrie chonicles story (or whatever its called) Mac-7 was intended more to tell a story, and focus on character development. Macross Plus ate a phenominal part of the budget up... it had bells and whistles like CG that ate up the budget.Macross 7 didn't have that money but it didn't need it. It wasn't supposed to be about the mecha (even though it had the most of any series) it was about the characters and story telling anyway. Whats the point animating complex battle scenes when it wasn't even a focus of the story, and you don't have the money anways?

I don't think its a parody, as much as maybe a comment or critique of the mecha genre, given Kawamori's beliefs in pacifism. Parodies in Japanese anime are pretty blatant, they would have very obvious direct rip offs of other series. M7 doesn't have that. It does build on the trends that SDF has about something other than war that could be used to solve problems. I mean what mecha series has the main character get OUT of his vehicle to go fight the enemy?

Hi there, First off, deadghost, maybe you should try typing normally NOT SHOUTING LIKE THIS OR #@$#@$@#. People might take you more seriously. I guess you're new to the boards so you don't know the Ettiqutte that surrounds Mac-7 reviews. We just don't do them, because people tend to get real irrational, swearing, making fun of each other, ect. Somewhat like your first post. There are multiple threads on Mac-7 that cover what you are saying, you might have done well to use the search function. http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=16027 http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=9322 http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=15622 http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=14945 http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=7643 (I got bored after that) For my part, before this argument starts, I'd like to say that I think alot of the criticism of the series is unwarranted. The main one was that was a TV series watched weekly and not intended to be watched episode by episode all in one afternoon. It makes a big difference. Curiously though, I wonder if a sane Mac-7 discussion could occur since many of the usual suspects have left the board.

I'm all for France, seriously. I had the pleasure of watching Theirry Henry and Patrick Viera play for the Gunners at Highbury (even if I'm not a fan) and they are fantastic players. Also I can't stand Brazil and Argentina personally.... so I'm happy to see them knocked out.

Man, this is great, although nothing will top the election episode. Morbo: "Morbo will now introduce tonights candidates. Puny human number one, puny human number two and Morbo's good friend Richard Nixon." Nixon: "Hello Morbo. How's the family?" Morbo: "Belligerent and numerous." Nixon: "Good man, Nixon's pro-war and pro-family."

I've been waiting forever for this particular MS to be made. Grunt units rule, and the powered GM is one of my favorites. However, I think I'll wait for the inevitable (one can only hope) Master Grade version to come out. After this, the next one I want to see is the Guncannon II from 0083, in MG glory, of course. 410577[/snapback] I've been waiting for an HGUC Custom GM and the Guncannon II. I think the latter has enough similarities to the gundam NT1 Full armor that I'll attempt a scratch build of it. Edit. The guncannon 2 is available as a refit kit.

I'm IN! Maybe for 2! I LOVE little vehicles like these.

And India doesn't have enough jets.... enjoy. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5094234.stm

I'm not very much of a star person. I've met decent few at parties and what not, especially when I was in London, but I really don't care. I work in International Relations, and what really turns my crank is meeting people who actually have made a difference in the world. I mean celebs aren't all that special, but people who work in Foreign affairs are usually very intelligent, and worked exceptionally hard to get to there position. Among other... I've met Romeo Dallaire (the actual basis for the character that Nick Nolte plays in Hotel Rwanda), and last year I met Mohammed El Baradei, the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency. I could go on, but I think you get the picture.