Whamhammer

btw how come the picture I uploaded isnt displayed yet? (no biggie, not so serious, just curious)

Oh well, I guess I didn't try hard enough, I just spoke my mind after the "official" shennagans commenced and walked away (after doing donuts in the parking lot with my Alpha-Beta combo ).

"The only thing that could really fuel a false sense of fact, is if WB goes to BW and gets permission to use the designs, or names. While HG doesn't use them, perhaps WB would be able to do business with them and get that expressed permission. I'm sure to the fans not "pervy" (LOL) to how the legalities work, they'll translate that as HG being able to use all the Macross designs in their productions, even though it would be WB. Not saying this would happen, but that could be a possible outcome, far-fetched or not." The truth of the matter is, with the proper negotiations, they can put up anything that is agreed to by all parties. If W.B. sweetens the pot enough they could replicate all of the imagery. But they dont need to. They can use a completely different design on the planes and ships. They can alter the names and storyline enough to where it keeps within the realm and doesnt bring about a law suit at the same time. They dont need to re-enact the episodes verbatum to do the movie. This isnt the problem that theyre going to have. The problem is a willingness to see the big picture a plan accordingly while portraying that that is what they are doing.

"As I understood it, they were showing RT:SC at the Cannes Film Festival to shop for a distributor (the Cannes Marketplace), not looking for awards. The Marketplace is a fairly common venue for studios looking for independent works to market" You missed my whole point to what I was saying. All the awards (whic they love to mention when trying to show how sucessfull the project was) arent going to win over a customer base if they have no product and continue to whittle away at thier fan base in the way they respond to that fan base.

"You know what's funny about that??? It's the fact that there's more and more of that coming from them than ever before. The sad thing is, it really makes them look bad, because it puts them in defense mode, and most people realize that when you really have to defend yourself, there's something you are trying to defend. I've seen on other sites, this site get thrashed to pieces, and still has some of those same people on here. But, as it stands, no one makes a big fuss because this site doesn't need to be defended against." Exactly, Kevin McKeever and the gang are so much on the defensive they don't seem to see the difference between someone bashing thier product and someone stating an objective complaint or offering constructive critisim. More times than not there seems a disconnect that equates to them working harder to proove a fan wrong rather than listening to the fan, comprehending that fans concern and addressing it properly. Its easy to write off a fan/customer that is not in agreement with what the fan/customer sees and experiences as a naysayer or a troublemaker, harder yet to satisfy them once that person is branded that by ones remarks. All the Cannes film festival awards in the world dont do a thing to a saga when the follow up is off and the fans start feeling it, or even worse yet loose interest due to a lengthy follow up in product. I.M.H.O. , while they were making Chronicles , they should have already had the follow ups (at least wo) ready to go into production and set themselves up logistically for it even before producing Chronicles. It almost feels like the true problem has always been in the planning of these projects. I really feel that H.G. tries to look into the long term , but only sees the long term as one project at a time. Stories and sagas dont happen one at a time you plan them out and line them up first to fit together. This is what has many fans concerned as far as I see.

"And when you look at that dash/steering wheel just right, it looks like a robot face, frozen in a big, dumb, sh*t eating grin staring back at you... " I think the best description as of yet was that the new Camaros steering wheel appearance was that of Elton John in the late seventies/ early eighties. I agree the fuel gage shouldve been in the main cluster, but I'd hardly go as far as saying to oil pressure , temp and volt gages are "vital" how many cars dont even have those? The Camaro does have warning lights in easy line of sight, should there be a problem. Also the center console gage cluster is an option. I still think the 3900 pound wiehgt (V8 model)is the most aggregious problem the design has, it (at least) needs to lopp of 300 pounds to be worth it. "-Ford Fusion [pre '10 facelift]: Think Cadillac CTS from the front, mid '00s C-Class Benz from the rear. If you've been behind them next to ea other in traffic, you'll see what I mean." Is this kinda like the late eighties early ninties Mercedes having the front end appearance of a Chryser K car? Or the Late nineties Mercedes front end having the appearance of an early seventies Camaro? Also , the XB has always had the appearance of a half pint Isuzu Trooper II

"Contours, end cosmetics, ergonomics...and that's just on the surface. Everyone has borrowed from the Japanese. Even with the engines, you see it more and more. I'm a machinist and a card carrying UAW member who works for Caterpillar, my father in law works for Chrysler in the engine plant, and he can tell you some stories. For instance, when they were designing the Neon in the 90's, they brought in a Honda Civic, and a Nissan Sentra and began dismantling them, trying to get a better understanding of 4 cyl. engines and fuel economy. When the Viper's engine was being built, they had 2 different Mercedes engines, a Ferrari engine, and a couple 3000GT/Stealth engines laying around, just figuring out how to take the best from all three. I guess finding nothing wrong in that is a matter of perspective. I asked him about the Challenger, and he replied "Don't waste your money". For the record, he drives a Maxima. " Mind you, my opinion is from someone who has been with Toyota for over fifteen years.Toyota has very rarely come up with an original idea themselves especially in styling, especially in the Lexus brand. They have borrowed so shamelessly especially from the European brands and fall short. When they havent ,it typically ended up in an over-conservative boring design with suspensions to match (with very few exceptions) and price points that arent competitive. How many full size American (as well as the Nissan Titan) trucks did Toyota tear apart in attempts to build the last two itterations of the Tunda? How much quality controll went into the design of the 5.7 V8 cams that would snap into two ? And the six speed automatics that would puke thier torque converters? The Sequioa , the same thing. The second generation GS and just about all of the LS projects might as well have Mercedes royalty payment envelopes sitting in the glovebox. What works for them (as well as some of the other import companies)? Distance from the U.S. . They were able to make cars and and tool themselves up for a (major) U.S. market and able to watch and learn with minimal interference from the U.S. government. They saw the damage the Warren Act had put upon the domestic manufacturers as well as other regulations here. They were able to take advantage of things such as the U.A.W.'s protection of the carbuerator plants and workers that wouldnt work with G.M. to upgrade to M.P.F.I. in the Rochester groups plants , and only relented in letting them produce crappy throttle body injection fuel systems. G.M. had to utilize Bosch for th T.P.I. systems in the Corvette and F bodies. The E.P.A. almost immediate mid-eighties change over requirements in some plants forcing them from oil to water based paints. How many vehicles were being sabotaged on the prodction line just before a strike happened? That did alot for makinging build quality look good. The imports were able to come over and build here with thier alredy established unions with agreements before ground even broke on the plants choosing more convienient products that they could afford to drop making from over here and build back in thier outside of U.S. plants if need be. They were able to skirt a vast amount of the problems the domestic car makers had on production side. Which is good business, and they are succeeding. I dont blame them at all for that. And I'll be the first to say that domestics did make bad choices as well, they shouldve worked harder on the more compact car designs for the U.S. market, but if you have a market that goes over 50 percent buing S.U.V.'sits kinda hard to not work more on your s.u.v market. What doomed the U.S. companies and save the otehrs was that the U.S. products didnt enter competition in Europe with at least double if not more the cost for a gallon of gas / When the price jumped they didnt have an adequate answer . But of course when the price dropped again what did the American buyer go back to? S.U.V.'s! It even caught Toyota off guard with thier hardcare revamp of their S.U.V. lines , they took a bath! They still cant sell a Sequoia. Giving kudos to Jaguars line is kind of ironic, being that Ford royally saved thier arses when they bougt them and invested heavily in the upgrade of Jaguar to make them what they are today. Thier current success is due to Ford, not Tata. Tata's influence will take some time to prove success or failure. (And Id much sooner drive a Jag than a Lexus or Mercedes.) . I really feel it was sad that G.M. and Chrysler were dumb enough to go to the government for bailouts, there was no way on this Earth that they coulve avoided bankruptcy. The government wasted our taxpayer money on behalf of controll of a major private industry (that they have no business involving themselves in). I wouldve preferred to see them go intobankruptcy on thier own and possibly fail with the chance of someone else buying them and rebuilding them. Of course with th way the laws are set up, who would want to start a new car company in the U.S.. This being said , as long as the U.S. governemtn and the unions have controlling stakes in Chrysler and G.M. , I will not be buying a new vehicle from either.

"Hell, a Vette can't even stand up to an NSX. American cars are all but dead compared to the rest of the world". Good luck finding one (NSX), nobody bought them because the dealers priced themselves out of the market.Just like what Toyota did to the Supra's and MR-2 Spyders, but worse..... I see an occasional NSX on the road once in a blue moon at best, I see more Elise's and Exgiges on the road than NSX's.

"And I'll still take a VR-4 over an LS1 or 2. All that HP and half the body weight? That's a no-brainer" Hold on , are you talking 3000 gt vr-4? All wheel drive adds weight you know. Theyre 3800pounds, my WS-6 is 3500pounds and the 'Vette hovers around 3200pounds. The LS-1 dropped about 60 pounds off of the weight in the front (the engine weighed that much less than the iron blocked LT-1) and it helped the handling charachteristics a great deal for the F bodies. LT-1 equipped Camaros gave the 3000 gt VR-4's a run for thier money accelerationwise with a power defict with a stick starting between 17 and 21k (depending on the year 93-97).And how much did a full-zoot 3000 GT VR_4 cost? The thing the 3000 GT VR-4's was best at was that the all wheel drive helped a mediocre driver drive more like an excellent driver, but it handicapped the excellent driver with a weight disadvantage (and some would say the advantage of being able to throttle steer). As far as Japanesse cars of that era, I'd point more to the Supra Twin-turbo model, but with an entry fee of 40-45k its also is a hard swallow (and theyre still high up there, they suffered such small sales numbers compared to popularity that they are still in demand). Of course today, if your buying from the Japanesse market get a new Z , its bfb is awesome . Still though an LS-3 Vette Coupe with the Grand Sport package (last years Z-51 package) is still a phenominal value bfb.

Believe it or not, some Rtech fans arent big on Rick Hunter as much as others. He was fine as he was n the first segment, and I'll slip the leader of the R.E.F. slide by as a "why not". I personally felt that they made too much of a big deal about him. Every generation has its leaders, as it should. If they ended up doing Rick under in a not so ridiculous way, it would be fine with me. There are plenty of characters down the chain of command that could take up the mantle of leadership for the R.E.F. . Heck, I say recall Rook and Rand and have them co-op leadership (I know, I know they werent military........)

Anyway, thanks for answering my question. Yooooooooooouuuubetcha!!!

As far as diesel fuel in a gas engine goes; 1) they needed to drain the tank first (its sad they didnt) 2) many times the fuel pumps get wasted if you drive with the diesel in them enough. Usuall the parts list includes a new fuel pump and fuel filter, occasionally new spark plugs if there was fouling ( a good idea to replaceat this point anyways to besure). If its really bad the catalytic converter can get fouled up and need replacing too (as well as o2/air fuel ratio sensors). 3) Diesel fuel spouts (at least on the East coast) are larger diameter than gasoline spouts, mainly so you cant just insert the diesel in you filler neck. (but it happens anyways ) 4) At my dealer , we had a local gas station that got replenished and the driver filled the tanks incorrectly. The diesel went into the 87 and 87 in the diesel tank (luckily I use 93 , I use that station!!!! ) and we got in about 40 or so cars and trucks that fell prey to it , fun, fun, fun. But at least it was a paying jon

Heres mine.

I don't think Wanzerfan belongs in that group... I know for a fact he's a Macross II fan. In fact, he's one of the original members of my Macross II site, from way back in '03 when it was just an attempt to fix the screw-ups in the Palladium RPG. I have a group ! Wicked!!!

"Yes, but can you say with absolute certainty that those users who you had an issue with on Robotech.com were there for the sole purpose of bashing Robotech? After all, every now and again even I get accused of going over there to bash Robotech (albeit, the ones doing the accusing are usually the ones who think Robotech is somehow above criticism by mere mortals like myself), and yet I spend most of my time there helping people, answering questions and the like. Also, what you may consider "bashing" of the series may just be your interpretation of something that was intended as legitimate criticism (which my criticisms of Shadow Chronicles often are). I say this because there's been a recent, SEVERE upswing in Robotech fans labeling anything they don't agree with, and particularly anything that shows Robotech as somehow less-than-perfect as "bashing", "trolling", etc." One can interperate one mans help is anothers lambasting, I would definately say I try to give enough berth in my consideration. Those to which I referred to I go by thier tone and words, it was generally negative, generaly devolving into the personal (as opposed to objective) and hardly constructive , per my consideration of what bashing and trolling would be. I try to believe that we are all adults and I judge by that notion. Its is by this guidline that I describe the aforementioned. Does that make help make sence ? I hardly think Robotech is perfect, it is far from it. Robotech is strewn with errors in script and requires a certain level of suspension of disbeleif . In my opinion Shadow Chronicles did fall short in my expectations, I think it required more attention to detail than it recieved ,but I did enjoy it. I also wish they would be more organized and be able to set up thier projects better as to appearing that they have a plan and a timetable and can manage to keep to it. I believe that the product has potential and that as its being presented it is failing to meet that potential. "I'm all for keeping an open mind, but coming here JUST for the Robotech legal thread kind of defeats the point of it being a Macross site. It's good to know that you're not going to limit yourself to just this thread." Im glad youre for keeping an open mind. I would hate to believe that you were otherwise. Im not here just for the Robotech, this place talks about Yamato products, Bandai, Toynami and other product lines which I may be interested in and I can learn from them here, I hope you as well frequent those sections and enjoy them. Just because that section is the first place I posted (as described in the first lines of my introduction) doesnt mean that thats the only reason why I was here which I did end my first posting showing my intention of openess to other things, wouldnt you agree? "But I'm talking more about people like MEMO, and (more recently) people like Wanzerfan, HappyPenguins, and Whamhammer. HappyPenguins and Whamhammer both came out and said that they're not fans of Macross (yet...heh heh). And I've never heard Wanzerfan say ANYTHING positive about ANY Macross story. There are many others, too...and all of them post in this thread 90% of the time. Now, I know HappyPenguins joined up to speak out on the legal debate; others joined because they were either banned from RT.com or got frustrated with it. But again, my question is...Why here? I'm not being confrontational, I'm genuinely curious." I am here because a friend of mine reffered me here. I was told that there were a good sort of people who chatted about here and had mature conversations, and that there were sections that talked about Robotech and other topics sci-fi as well. I believe I presented why I left there , and if you believe Im disengenuous go ahead and read my posting on topics in that site and youll probably agree I am on the up and up. And as far as to the "why here?" question, my responce is "why not?". If my attendance here s an abomination, please let me know. Hopefully this can clear things up, the the very least , if I leave the lights on in my ride you wont have to guess whos plane is the white Alpha-Beta combo with blue racing stripes on it with the smoking tires (post parking lot donuts). Lol

Feel free to stop me when I lose the plot here... You didn't like that a few, belligerent fans of the original works criticize the Robotech adaptation on a site which also caters (albeit minimally) to fans of the originals, so you left there and came to a site devoted exclusively to the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross series and its sequels, which you say you don't even like very much, to defend Robotech from perfectly legitimate observations, criticism, and legal discussion? Forgive me, but your logic seems to be horribly screwed up. Sure, Ill be more than happy to . ... 1) I insist that Macross didnt do that much for me, true , but I do appreciate it and am willing to keep an open mind to things and wish to see more anime in different series, I was also reffered here with the infromation that there is also a Robotech section in here, which Robotech is discussed, which is the section I am in. I was alsotold tha this place is a great place to hold an adult discussion. 2) I dont like belligerent people going to a website with the primary goal of bashing another series no matter what the product is. It doesnt matter what kind of service the site goers get. If they dont like the site and feel they are treated poorly, they can leave, such as . Can we agree on that? 3) I'm not here to defend Robotech , I was giving my point of view of it, if you didnt notice I have also criticized those who currently produce Robotech as well. I dont suggest its superiority to anything. Its not superior to anything,but I do enjoy it. As you can tell I am also not belligerent, I have given Macross its dues, and I am willing to see more of the product.I Enjoy many types of anime , and can always try something new again, but if you wish I could leave and not keep an open mind to it... more later, I have an appointment to go to.

As far as the L.A.M. , it should be as true to the original as it can. Theres no reason you cant keep the characters and plot. I believe it would be a shame if the had to reset it and alter it from the original story line. Okay dont call them Zentraedi, you dont have to name thembut keep them square peg-round-hole giant humanoid aliens. Have a spaceship crash on an island , it doesnt have to be the Island of Macross (just dont make it the island of Manhattan, lol.) Keep Rick, keep Lisa , Global , Roy etc. they wont look exactly like them unless we do some real anotomical alterations. Sure the Veritech doesnt have to look exactly like the VF-1 does,it can be altered to be good looking and keep it in the spirit of it without getting sued, yopu could even do it off of the Raptor. I think keeping it in within the scope of the original is the best reciepe.

Hi all, Please excuse me if I dont use the interface so well, Im getting use to its set-up. Some of you might, know me, some not. I am a Robotech fan, wouldnt go as far as to say Im a fanboy so much as some (for obvious reasons to those whove been on Robotech.com in the last year). If I may, please let me give my humble opinion on Robotech. I first saw it in 85 and loved it, it was different than anything else on the air at the time and I loved the artwork and characters (most of them at least). The show actually showed that going to battle meant some amount of people wouldnt come back alive, so you better fight for a good cause and better fight to win. I was left waiting twenty years for more, grabbing the occasional thing here and there, watching other anime to try to get my fix calmed. I did watch Macross and one or two of its sequels from friends. it opened me to see Bubblegum Crisis and The Slayers (two of my fave's) and anime of its ilk, some good , some bad. To be honest , I'm not a Macross (the original series and its subsidiaries as well as the portion in Robotech) series fan as much as the content of Southern Cross (Robotech Masters) and Mospeada (New Generation) , it just do it as much for me. That is my opinion, as much others have thier own, and I respect a persons right to have an opinion as much as the next guy. What I do enjoy about the Macross portion in Robotech is that it does work well for getting the ball rolling, it starts from the world as we world normally have and accepted it for and brought us into the real "transformable combat craft fighting space aliens" world, for that I am gratefull. I also believe that all anime projects ,to the most part, have helped each others popularity, and that Robotech with its alterations and combining of series to move a storyline that worked for introducing some Americans that may not have seen it (I think adding the commentator to add more in depth explanation to the storyline was a boon for the series). It has also alowed a divide to be created from the original series and the Robotech fans. I would like to discuss my opinions on the divide. In regards to the Macross loyal, I am gratefull for the series that you enjoy so much and I would dare not criticize the series (or any other) other than to my interpretation of the series content (art/plot/script/etc). All that said, there have been some few people, who have in the past went over the the Robotech.com website, with no interest in Robotechs content with exception to bash it and insult thehabitants of the website and their enjoyment of the show and related items because of its "unoriginal/impure" origins. When I was there I tried to reason with them the differences between shows, and when that failed I would ask that they wouldnt return unless they wished to contribute in a more constructive manner. I also would have a quarell with those Robotech fans, or anyone else who would go to another "fansite" to bash it. I believe that all fans of different shows can co-exist without the flame wars. Most of us are adults. If you go to anothers website, please dont go there just to show how wrong someone is over there, especially if you dont consume the product. If you own a Mustang dont go Chevy owners websites just to tell the Camaro owners that thier cars are inferior to yours . Now, that being said. I would like to comment on my disappearance from the Robotech community over the last while. I had been a loyal supporter of that website for sometime (about 4 years) , contributing this and that (sometimes to the mod's dismay) for a while, Im sure Steve and Tommy still have nightmares of me screaming "I WANT MY BETA!!!!" to this day ,lol. ( I am still waitng for Steve to personally present me my Beta in honor of me being the loudest-Beta-fan-ever award.) I would try to be loyal opposition when I felt it was neccesary. When Shadow Chronicles release dragged on and on and on , somes fansexcitement turned to impatience and frustration.there was some descent to H.G., so deserved, some not. Eventually S.C. was released with raves and criticism, but the fan base wanted more (either it being for improvement or just more from Robotech). As time went on, they had a project name "Shadows Rising" but precious little more than that (after a year and a half). There had been some people complaining about various issues with the Robotech product in various areas . The individual responsible with customer relations was getting a rough time from some of those that were discussing misgivings, which I felt pretty bad about. I put together a statement where I believed I would streamline some of the complaints and help bring along a betterunderstanding of why someof the customers were upset (I've spent a while in customer service and saw some of the things Ive learned from it.), I figuredit would help everything out and make things better, I honestly did, I would use some examples that Ive seen and try to explain why I believed the people who were complaining were unsatisfied. I dont know what was behind the scenes on what was going on with the customer relations person, but he took it as I was attacking him and his company, buttoned up and fired back, not even taking into account that I might have been trying to help him understand the customers he was in discussion with. After four years online and twenty plus years of supporting the product, the person who stood as the representative of Harmony Gold and Robotech insulted me what he accounted to a few upset people and went kneejerk on convincing us how good his product was andthat we were wrong, that his customers were wrong. There is a techniqque taught in many csr/csm classes called L.A.C.E. L Listen A Ask questions C Confirm understandinf of the problem/situation E Educate (some liketo call it empathize, etc.) One of the biggest problem with companies today is that people dont listen, they dont try to understand whats going on, they take complaints personal (which I understand, to a point) and they must emerge on the winning side. But what is winning?If you proove the customer wrong without gleaning the solution, he/she doesnt feel like a valued customer and no matterthe product you risk loosing them, and turn an advocate away from helping. Which is what happened to me. I am going try to turn this place into my new home and learn new things here and enjoy them, please excuse the weird sence of humor.