knoted

Thanks ! That's awesome stuff.

Well, imo you were asking for it then. Clearly, you bought the shittiest of ROTF example to cement your pre existing opinion about the line. So, to me, this purchase example is really a non-argument to me.

Same here. For me the other way around goes for Macross ; I find Kawamori's VF designs getting weaker and weaker since the VF1. It's just elongated canopies and legs to extremes, it's becoming a cliche of itself. Btw, that 'Prime' Bumblebee pic reminds me more of Robots :

In a way, they're all slightly different versions of the samurai/ninja robot template. This image cements that infinite concept loop.

Thanx for the pics ! I really LOVE the top view silhouette, especially because of the diamond shaped wings.

I think you might underestimate the amount of people who would prefer a voyager size over a leader class figure. I for one. That's why I'm glad I held off buying the old voyager Prime. The new Deluxe molds Ratchet, Ironhide and Sideswipe are entirely new improved molds and finally, voyager Megatron will be screen colour accurate. That mold is way better than that odd metal slug leader class Megs. And yeah... Drift.... imo he looks like a TF - Gundam crossover ; especially those moonboots legs look like generic anime stuff.. ugh..lame stuff.

- a lot of movie characters with entirely new improved molds ; articulation & screen accuracy ( new voyager Prime, awesome Hailstorm sculpt, awesome new Sideswipe sculpt, etc. ) - a start for a dedicated War for Cybertron line ; and it's basically fact by now, that a lot of people are digging the style. Don't underestimate this line ; its main drive is the videogame which means it will have huge consumer reach. Videogame sales which spawn toy line sales CAN be an extremely succesful formula. - a new Human Alliance Jazz mold ; finally you can rid yourself of that horribly stubby movie 1 Jazz mold. - the Powercore Combiner concept might not be the thing for every gestalt fan, but the sculpts look decent and it also reaches out to kids who aren't necessarily into transformers. - the crossovers look OK-ish, with Cad Bane as a standout - the new Thrust ! - and other new non toyfair TF's in the 2010 pipeline. On the other hand, as you hinted at ; you could have had another year of "100%" movie line focus. The only things which imo look crappy are : - Drift ; lame mold for a lame character - the Car Seekers ; lame cars.

Again, I don't get the negativity & meh reactions to this Toyfair 2010 line up. Most of it looks like pure WIN and improvement all across the board.

Yes, really. I never liked the bulging airintake, basically under the fuselage. And I dislike the straight wingline. Those F35 pics do look good though.

Huh ? F16 is one of the fugliest planes in history ... imo...

It's all a matter of personal taste. Personally, I think the angular stealth aesthetics is the BEST that ever happened to airplane designs. I really like all those triangular & hexagonal visual aspects which connects my favourites : the F117, YF23 and the F22. Away with the old.

Mehh... The F22 and YF23 still look the coolest to me.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but based on the trailers...I'm totally NOT feeling this. The avatar creatures look like a cross between the stereotypical elves and smurfs, then stretched all out. Very original.

That's a bit better yeah. Imo, it's sad to see people having to mod their own MP seekers to have it like this. If they do come up with a Ramjet/ Dirge, this might not be such an issue since those 2 have the wings at the legs by default. But yeah, until they fix this, I'm not gonna spend cash on those MP seekers...I was tempted to get Thundercracker but the hip kibble just kills it for me.

Samurai swords ? Such diabolical nonsense...I mean, they can't hold 'em in their hands like samurai swords, right ? Imo, they should have gone to lengths to have that stuff fold up nicely on the back. If they can't get that fixed, then imo the little Classics seeker mold still has +1 over the MP's. Anyway, I do hope to see a MP Ramjet sometime. He's my fav conehead.

Takara version looks a lot better ...imo.... Besides, it's about time they revise the seeker mold ; the hip kibble is getting unacceptable by now. When they figure that one out, it's time for the coneheads.

You could slice off (using a heated exacto knife) the small toes like I did with my Breakaway ; this helps the airplane silhouette as well. The Breakaway colours don't bother me ; i like to think of it as SW planet Endor camo.

Well, I do prefer the IDW/Dreamwave style of drawing better than Marvel. Also, it was Budiansky who came up with eh... 'interestingly' controversial characters such as Circuit Breaker. Other topic : I had a look again at my ROTF Starscream, voyager version in jetmode : I think this Leader version's jet mode might be exactly the same in proportions ; the difference being ; the voyager having a neat belly cover, while the Leader version does have recognizable robot parts, BUT which are not sticking out more, than the voyager's belly cover. So, until a proper picture/video review appears, it's still up in the air about the jetmode being better or worse than the voyager F22.

The box picture looks kinda warped ; so, we need to see real review pics to see if the jetmode holds up. Either way, the voyager jetmode's canopy looks great ; it really has that bulge volume.

What I meant with 'different angles' ; I could look at Robots X Something and come to a conclusion that it doesn't look like Robots X Vintage at all. I might even dislike it at first sight. But then after a while I start looking at a design, and I start to notice some aspects in that design which remind me of Robots Y and Z....which I think are cool. So, then...I look at it again and see that influence, it makes me rethink and re-appreciate Robots X Something from a new perspective. Had I stuck with looking at it with only Robots X Vintage in mind...I wouldn't have had this new appreciation ; in other words I would have LOST interest. I am not here to foulcall people Geewunners...but I am only saying that perhaps you might gain a new appreciation, instead of losing something. A positive approach really. So, Pete... I hope you can see that, before you regret selling it all. But its true on the other hand ; this CAN sometimes be difficult.... for example ; i don't like some of the changes to my fav videogame franchise, so yeah, I agree changes to things we love are either HIT or MISS. Personally I like G1, Classics and ROTF. I disliked the 2007 movie designs for about a month when they were publicised online.... then they started to grow on me.... but I still wasn't convinced to actually BUY the 2007 movie toys. Come 2008/2009 and I find the engineering of most of the ROTF to be an improvement, hence I found myself buying TF's again after 20 years.

I didn't even specifically mean the movie designs. There's no need for snarkiness here. I just gave him some positive hints to move on either way, concerning his fading interest in TF's. He made clear, even G1 is boring him by now. Besides, can you vow to say you LOVE each TF line before movieverse as much as G1 ? I mean, each one of them ? The positive message in Bruce Lee's idiom is to approach something from different angles. Yeah, maybe that means going 'around' something, generally waiting for the next cycle of change. Because that's what change is ; an infinite loop cycle. Next round you might indeed find a TF line more to your liking. But, that still does not mean generalizing one TF1 line is the right thing to do. I see enough hardcore G1ers who do find at least 1 movie bot they like. Mike, your anology about the parents is not the right one here. A person likes TF's because it's a choice. Nobody gets to choose their own parents. I mean, what would you rather have ; the dad from your example or a dad who's been beating and abusing you from the day you were born ?

I think your fading interest in TF's is tied to 2 factors : 1. You want the whole deal : character + exciting character BIO. 2. You're somewhat stuck into 1 single aesthetic when it comes to TF's. I'm 31...and I only started buying some TF's again with the start of the movieverse - after a hiatus of 20 years - despite the fact I think the movies are so so....I even dislike ROTF to some extent and the character portrayal ; BUT, I do LOVE some of the ROTF designs and their respective toy versions. They are what brought me back after 2 decades. And then I come to the TF boards and I see people of my age, complaining and talking like grandpa's, how they wish it'd be 1984 again.... So, basically, the TF world around you is changing, while you're still looking for an 'image' of past days. So, I would advise Bruce Lee's advice : Be like the water...i.e. change & flow with the times.

Which other transformable robot toys of 84' - 87' of the same price range, did feature immensely better articulation ? Also, G1 84/85/86 toys did feature some really nice chrome app details, rubber wheels & diecast parts. Well, that's because Yamato has the luxury to focus on a handful of variants, of basically the same robot/jet mold (which have a fairly simple transformation scheme). There are a billion TF's with a billion different altmodes. Those are some bad examples, because Classics Megatron is of course, not allowed to mirror an actual Walther P38 anymore. All the Classics/Henkei Seekers do a better job at representing their cartoon counterparts than their G1 toy versions. It's not a golden rule though. Personally, I prefer G1 toy Prime & Megatron over their Classics versions too. But hey, that's what the Masterpiece versions are for - How come you don't like those ? About the 'new vs old' debate : I like both new & old. From 84' G1 to current ROTF. There's no ROTF 1/48 F22 Starscream model kit coming up, but I do love the current voyager version as much, if not more than my Universe 2.0 Starscream, and I'm looking forward to the ROTF Leader version of Starscream.

I Love this stuff !

I'll be getting voyager Megs in the mail soon. He's indeed movie accurate. The green colour represents the short scene where he rises from the green depths of the sea. Green is probably one of my least fav colours, but the mold looks so great, I can tolerate the green.