Duke Togo

I dunno about the rest o fyou, but this mystical power of music didn't fly with me in Macross II, and it didn't work for me with Macross 7 either. The "culture shock" angle was far more realistic and plausible.

More Macross 7 crap. Besides, she didn't stop the war, she paralyzed the enemy long enough so the good guys could clean their clocks.

I've seen this floating around on WinMX.

LOL, no its not. Culture shock is "the anxiety people experience as they encounter and try to adapt to the customs and expectations of another culture." Your examples are completely off base. There's porn in Macross just as there is money in Star Trek. What do you think latinum was? (I can't believe I actually know what it is...). There's no shortness of perversity and naughtiness in the Macross universe.

Read my post again Duke - I said there was no magic or mystical ability in any Macross, including 7. I disagree. Its in both 7 and Zero, just Zero isn't as silly about it as 7 was.

Ya, It's a Wonderful Life and A Christmas Story were both theater releases, not "Christmas specials" (I personally LOVE both). I had to go with my long time favorite, Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer. Burl Ives, baby, its all about Burl Ives!

Its one argument that's they can't debate, imode, because they know its true. There is no magic or mystical ability in the original Macross. Its pure culture shock.

I don't think you should attempt to catch them in the act. I think you ruin the spirit of it all. Enjoy it and let it be. This person doesn't want the attention, obviously, just wants to do a good deed. Just my two cents.

I'd be willing to look at your arguments for this, but I don't think you have a leg to stand on. While the emulators used music to condition the Zentraeidi (I never could spell that damn word) , it was no where along the lines of anima spiritia. This is so out of left field. I don't see how this is so out of left field. Sure, by name it isn't Spirita, but you can't deny the similarities. Sound Force and the Jamming Birds can all be seen as emulators. Their power in Macross II has a very mystical quality about it. If I recall correctly, there's even a point towards the end of Macross II where she starts glowing while she sings. Macross II also has that conflict between the military wanting to use sheer force, while Ishtar wants to use music to save everyone, much like Macross 7 and Basara. In the original SDF Macross, it is quite clear that there its not some mystical power force in music that helps defeat the Zentradi, but culture shock. Broadcasting a porno movie would most likely have had the same effect. BTW, the use of music in Macross Plus is VERY different than seen in 7. What we see in Macross Plus is pure mind control by AI through the use of light pulses and subliminal messages in the music. There is nothing mystical or magical about it. Macross Plus is NOT about music, it mainly deals with the relationship between three people, and the dangers of AI. Oh, before I forget, did anybody catch a bit in Zero episode 3 (I think) where the singing of a "Song of Destruction" is mentioned? I don't recall exactly what it revolved around, but I remember thinking at the time it was yet another Macross II reference.

I don't know why you keep trolling Macross 7 threads with this despite how many times this "theory" has been shot down. Oh, that's how it is. Anybody who disagrees with you must be a troll, huh? Do me a favor, don't reply to any of my posts anymore.

Admit it, Keith, Macross 7 in Kawamori's version of Macross II. I don't know why you keep denying this, the "power of music" is first explored and used there.

I think one of the big problems with Macross 7 is that is runs WAY too long. Its practically 50 episodes, and how many of those are basically the same episode over and over again? There have to be about 20 filler episodes in there atleast.

I like how you left out the the most substantial part of my post, Noyhauser: Care to respond?

As opposed to the constant love in some people around here are giving Macross 7? There are two sides to every coin. I got sick and tired of being told I don't understand the series. I understand it just fine, and I don't like it.

Its nowhere close to as deep as Macross Plus. The relationship between the main three characters is more intense than anything else in the Macross franchise, and we see how physical abuse, rage, mental illness, and loss have deeply affected their lives. The only thing close is Lynn Kaifun's drinking problem in the original SDF Macross and the loss of Roy Focker. What do I get from Macross 7? Blatant and disgusting fan service, valkyries with faces (including a pink one), the overuse and abuse of some generic jrock for marketing purposes, an almost complete and utter destruction of two of the franchise's most beloved characters (Max and Milia... he cheats on me constantly, but we really still love eachother... we haven't aged, BTW, and our costumes are ridiculous), and an animation standard that at times fails to meet that of the then 15 year old original. And just why does the Macross 7 transform? Kawamori seemed to be at his best with DYRL and the series and movie follow up Flashback 2012. The Megaroad didn't transform becuase there wasn't any reasonable need for it to. The VF-4 is the most quirky and unique of all of the Valkyrie designs, without being fruity or silly. Like its characters, it was Macross all grown up and matured, and seemed to point the franchise in an intelligent direction completely disregarded in Macross 7. Why? I would guess Kawamori was under pressure from Big West to produce the most marketable version of Macross he could, and be sure to keep pounding on what will make the most money: T&A, music, and the biggest cash cow of them all, cool designs for cool toys. And, BTW, do something with all of this Macross II stuff we have laying around... Macross 7 is almomst nothing like the other Macross products, and Zero further hammers this home. The more Macross stuff Kawamori makes unlike 7, the more it stands out as the oddball in the franchise. Could I go farther? Certainly, but I've done it so many times before I think we all get the idea.

Proving my point, Macross 7 was totally about the music, or should I say, the marketing of music. Not one of the other Macross series in the franchise has its main focus as the music (well, except for perhaps Macross II, but its kinda on the outside of things). Macross isn't about music, its about relationships. And I have a VERY hard time taking someone who doesn't think Macross Plus was about relationships seriously. Macross Plus dealt with some SERIOUS issues, and dealt with them more intelligently than any other part of the franchise has to date.

Since MechMadness went down, I really don't know.

I agree... Religious debates suck. This is why I am going to start my own religion/cult. Anyone interested? There are going to be some great tax benifits. Two words: Jedi Knight What was it, 300,000 people who put that down as their religion in Britian during their last census?

I believe it was in the spring, actually. March, perhaps? I dunno, saw something about it on the History Channel. Milk, this is NOT a religious discussion. I don't know why you would take it as such. I don't think there any pagans here who would get offended... Ok, a cookie to anyone who can tell me what P.A.G.A.N. stands for! As to my shoulder, I have torn cartilage, and the joint is lose, so they are going to have to scope me to repair or cut away some of the cartilage. Then they go in with this wand that uses electricty to burn the inside of the capsule around the should joint to shrink it, tightening the joint. 3 weeks in a sling, 3 months of rehab. Oh, and a Happy Holidays to all!

It's kind of weird that everytime a M7 thread comes up, the usual suspects who love it refuse to accept the fact that alot of people don't like it, and will not listen to a single word anyone says. We have our own opinions on the series, and we have as much right as anyone to discuss it in this forum. If you don't like it, I suggest you take yourself elsewhere. Its called open discussion, deal with it.

Except for Macross II, which Macross 7 heavily borrows from.

We're both correct. The date of December 25th probably originated with the ancient "birthday" of the son-god, Mithra, a pagan deity whose religious influence became widespread in the Roman Empire during the first few centuries A.D. Mithra was related to the Semitic sun-god, Shamash, and his worship spread throughout Asia to Europe where he was called Deus Sol Invictus Mithras. Rome was well-known for absorbing the pagan religions and rituals of its widespread empire. As such, Rome converted this pagan legacy to a celebration of the god, Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god during the winter solstice period. The winter holiday became known as Saturnalia and began the week prior to December 25th. The festival was characterized by gift-giving, feasting, singing and downright debauchery, as the priests of Saturn carried wreaths of evergreen boughs in procession throughout the Roman temples. Christmas as we know it is based upon this Roman holiday, and it was Constantine who was responsible for making it a Christian holiday.

I'd like to say that Jesus wasn't born on Christmas, and that it was a Roman pagan holiday appropiated by the Emperor Constantine (first Christian Roman Emperor) to help bring the Roman Empire together. As an Italian, I have more right to this holiday than the rest of you!

Jesus God, Keith, do you have a CLUE what Macross is about? The original Macross was a war drama focusing on personal relationships set against the backdrop of conflict, how they react to their circumstances, and the humanity of the characters, both human and Zentradi. Music played a VERY small role in the overall series compared to 7, and there is as much mecha in Macross as there are tanks and airplanes in WWII films. Both Plus and Zero are far more faithful to the original series in my opinion. The relationships come first above all else. Macross 7 is almost solely about the music. You can't go two minutes in the series without being beaten over the head with another song, which at that point you are probably hearing for the 100th time. Its like watching Sailor Moon. The stuff hits the fan, here comes the costume change! I didn't see that coming! And I'd say Tuxedo Mask and Sailor Moon had a deeper relationship than anything I've seen in Macross 7... so much for love.

What, no engaged option in the poll? I'm engaged, damnit!