Duke Togo

No no, you're right on that. But you can't deny that the Protoculture's ship and mecha designs were heavily influenced by the Vajra. We can probably assume they cane first at this point, but we won't really know for sure until we get more information in the official chronology.

No, I'd say "you assume too much", with a forced fake accent.

For more clarification, according to the Macross Compendium, year zero on the Protoculture calendar for us is 500,00 BCE. If the Vajra are meeting with other groups within the galaxy (not galaxies, my bad) every few hundreds of millions of years, I think that this would prove that the Vajra predate the Protoculture.

I dunno, to me its an important plot point. Why the Vajra did what they did seems rather important to the story.

Would you like me to go back and fix my typo for you? Would that make you feel better? I assume your the type who still calls it "Super Dimensional", as well.

I had to edit my post because I forgot the line of dialog that was key. But I wasn't fast enough, clearly.

You got out of it what you got out of it, I got out of it what I did. It wasn't conclusive to me that they would become a couple.

"With the power which even the Protoculture feared, adored, and defied, to the extent of imitating its form, the Super Dimenion life form, Vajra!" And then Ranka goes on to explain that Aimo is a Vajra love song, a mating call when Vajra from other galaxies meet once in "hundreds of millions of years". Could this be ANY more clear?

Well then, how did Ranshe learn it?

I think you really missed what happened at the end of this series.

I think the mistake he made was having Bilrer obsessing over Minmay at the end of this series. Kawamori cracked the door back open again, even if it wasn't his intention to do so. He's going to get more questions on it now than he ever has.

No. Watch again, read what was said again. The Vajra came before the Protoculture. The Protoculture were in awe of the Vajra. The Protoculture were inspired by them.

Not only that, ship design, mecha design, all Vajra inspired. You see the cannon on the backs of the lobsters, you see their capital ships split open to fire, and you think, hey, these must be made by the Protoculture, but the truth is something totally different. Of course, my question still stands, where were the Vajra when the Stellar Republic was being ripped apart by civil war? They don't seem to shy away from conflict.

Indeed. For those who still lurk, thank you for all of your time and effort. You guys did a great job and I think I can speak for all of us when I say we truly do appreciate it.

Talk about problems with reading comprehension. Never once in these publications are the Mardook referred to as the creators of the Zentradi. Not once! He is assuming, that is his guess. It is his opinion. And he states, "Had you actually read my posts, you would know that I have taken great care to remind people that what I am presenting is a theory." But this statement, "At several different points in Entertainment Bible, the Mardook are referred to as the creators of the Zentradi." IS FALSE. Not once is this said. He is not presenting this to you as a theory, he is stating this as a supposed "fact" to back up his assumptions. Anyway, continue on with playing "what if? with Macross II. You can come and get me when you guys start posting up Metal Siren pics. I like me some Metal Siren!

The subs are out, this question is answered. Heck, it was answered before the subs came out. The Protoculture revered, and perhaps even worshiped the Vajra. They copied much of what they saw of the Vajra.

I think you need to watch the series again. I think its quite clear that he never had any true feelings for either of them. His love was for flying, that was his passion, that meant everything to him. I don't see why this ending is so shocking to anyone.

But how? There seems to be a big chunk of information missing here.

I think one thing that bothered me about Frontier is that Macross 7's animation and art was far more consistent episode to episode than Frontier's. If they were to go back and reanimate all of 7's combat sequences using CG, would I still call Frontier the best animated of the 3 series? I don't know. Also, the original SDF Macross, when not being outsourced, had some brilliant sequences and gorgeous art, all hand drawn.

You forgot Grace. But is she really dead?

Yes, you are right. Multiple screen shots and over 20 years of Macross canon totally fail in the face of Zinjo's opinion! We're beating a dead horse here. This was amusing during the multiple rain delays last night, but this discussion has long since lost its appeal. Wake me back up when the Chronicle is finished and the Compendium is updated.

I agree. Here we have this disabled Zentradi (war veteran?) who has his own Macross, his own Skull Squadron, and dreams of seeing Minmay.

Are we just going to ignore his line of dialog in episode 24, where he says, "Soon... Soon I'll be able to meet you"?

Well, that still leaves us with the big question of why they went from nicey-nice with Nome and the 117th fleet to destroy all humans?

"Super Dimension Fortress" does not sound like a fleet configuration to me. Unless we want to start playing engrish games.