Duke Togo

Kawamori is alot like Lucas to me. The fact that someone else took over control of the direction of Frontier from him can only have been a good thing.

Finally got around to seeing Razor, picked it up at Best Buy for 10 bucks and change. The classic Cylon/First War stuff was great, but the rest of the story left me kinda flat.

Two more things I picked up from the last podcast: RDM again says (this time referencing the Opera House) that they had no idea what it meant or where they were going with it when they first put it in the show 2 season ago (or whenever it was), and that Head Baltar's line about "it" not liking to be called "god" is a pretty clear sign that whatever this Lord is, its not some spiritual, divine being. It still amazes me how much of the plot was really smoke and mirrors, they had no clue what half of it meant at the time they were writing it, with no clear path, yet they were able to make a great series out of it (even without paying alot of them off or clarifying them).

Also, how the Tigh/Ellen relationship plays out in it sounds much more satisfying to me, much more true to their characters. More than one of us commented on how Ellen didn't seem like Ellen anymore when she came back, yet the others of the Final Five were still themselves.

Sorta, but not completely. In the three way fight, half of the fleet is destroyed. Also, they don't attack the Cylon homeworld, they attack the colony, its just that RDM has a name for it. Also, I am not sure calling Ellen "evil" is the correct way to put it. Though, he does refer to either Cavil or Ellen (don't remember which) as "Lucifer".

Well, from what I understand, its explained earlier in the series. Who or what the Lords of Kobol actually are (beyond some higher life form) is the true unknown. Is it important that we know? Not really. I think not refreshing our memories (along with the info that is found on the extended episode cuts on the DVDs) left many of us feeling like too much was left unanswered, when it actually has been in the past.

Listening to RDM's last podcast, he talks about the original plan for the final season, and man, it sounds so much better than what they did. Sure, its 10x darker, but I liked what they wanted to do.

Yeah, no...

I would doubt there is much influence at all, unless you are talking about what influenced Macross that may have also influenced BGS. And you're REALLY reaching with some of these. Hell, the Jolly Rogers is a real fighter squadron, has been for decades, and its where the Skull Squadron in Macross comes from.

Battlestar Wiki says "The Eye of Jupiter" (3.11): In "The Eye of Jupiter", Tyrol says that "Our initial radiocarbon dating suggests that the temple's at least 4,000 years old, which lines up with the exodus of the Thirteenth Tribe." This is the oldest date noted in the series' timeline, but also conflicts with the prior date of Pythia and her works as described by Elosha in "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I", where she states that the exodus of all 13 tribes occurred approximately 2,000 years ago. Another contradiction occurs in "A Measure of Salvation", when Adama says that "According to Cottle, the virus was an exact match to one reported over 3000 years ago, right around the time that the 13th colony left Kobol." Also, they quote the miniseries: "...The Sacred Scrolls tell that the 13th tribe left Kobol in the early days. They traveled far and made their home upon a planet called Earth...which circled a distant and unknown star." And more: During some period, travel appears to have taken place from Earth to Kobol, as the Sacred Scrolls give an account of the journey to Earth. The effect of Earth on the 12 other tribes is significant, as Laura Roslin states that the star patterns from the Earth Zodiac shown in the 3D projection in the Tomb of Athena were used for the original flags of the Twelve Colonies, and the colonies' original names match the Earth names of the constellations (Home, Part II).

No, the 13th left 2,000 years before the Humans did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr4QBZfjtqs...player_embedded I'm speechless...

BTW, Myersjessee wins:

Its one of the Lords who orchestrated this entire mess (the "one true"). Also interesting, there is no way the people on Kobol could have known where the 13th ended up (and how to get there) if there wasn't continued contact between them after the 13th left and settled Earth.

Yes, but its the "why" of their leaving Kobol. We know why humans left, cylons its not so clear. They left 2,000 years before the humans did, so I don't think the fracturing amongst the Lords of Kobol played into it (though, the Cylons *seem* to have worshiped the Lord who wanted to be worshiped above the others).

I am not sure it was ever made completely clear why the Cylons left Kobol. Humans left Kobol because of the civil war that broke out between the Lords of Kobol.

Is this your first post in one of the Battlestar threads?

Yes, if you go back and look at those first few seasons (having seen the ending, now), its quite obvious. Not entirely true. Had they not been able to go back into production, it would have ended with that shot of the planet, and it would have been left at that. No Cylon world, no Nuclear fallout, no cinder Earth. It would have been Earth, period, and the rest left to our imaginations.

I am wondering: What happened to the human survivors back on the original 12 Colonies? Statistically speaking, out of 18 billion people, there are survivors who did not leave on those ships and who were not captured or killed by Cylons. Speaking of, what happened to the Cylons back at the 12 Colonies? They had baseships there, troops on the ground. Again, for me, the lack of a coherent storyline and plan for the endgame through the mini-series and first few seasons (which RDM admitted on several occasions) really hurt the story at the end. The biggest problem is that the first half of the show's life seems totally different than the second half, and I am not sure you could watch them all together and be satisfied. It's almost like being married to a woman for 3 years, having a kid, then waking up one day and she's a man. And you can't quite explain WTF just happened, and what was going on those past 3 years. I just don't know if I buy the explanation that all of this happened because Baltar had to be made to believe, REALLY believe in something greater than himself, so he could convince Cavil to stand down in that pivotal sequence.

Well, they did, but they didn't. Only way to get those tidbits would be go watch the first few seasons on DVD. Basically, we have the 12 Lords of Kobol, some sort of higher life form that ruled over the humans on Kobol. At some point, one of the Lords became jealous and wanted to be worshiped above the rest, and proclaimed himself to be the one, true Lord. The inference is this being is very likely the Cylon "God". Civil war broke out amongst the Lords, which led to the humans leaving Kobol 2,000 years before BSG. The Cylons consider the Lords of Kobol not to be gods at all, but do believe they existed. The Cylon "God" does not like to be called such, and I think you can take from this that the Lords of Kobol were not gods at all, but simply an advanced race of beings. Its much more "Ship of Lights" than something spiritual or omnipotent.

The biggest failing in the end, for me, was the lack of an explanation for the Lords of Kobol and the Cylon's one true god. From what I can gather from online sources, if you go back to the first few seasons, there are some vague references to a fracturing amongst the Lords of Kobol that led to the exodus of the 13 colonies, and the rise of the one god (who is hinted to be one of the Lords of Kobol). I'm big on mythology, and I think they missed an opportunity to add another dimension to the backstory while making the plot at the end a bit cleaner.

Yeah, this is what happens when you create a show (and then proceed to go almost 2 seasons into said show) with a pre-defined ending (finding Earth) without any idea what your character's motivations and the end game are. Was the episode good? Yes. Am I satisfied with the ending? No.

This is an anti-spoiler, and not news if you follow the podcast:

Quite a few spoiler shots in it, as well.

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