myk

That's a real shame as the '93 LX is, in my opinion, one of the better looking 'Stangs to date...

Kate Beckinsdale is certainly not a waif...

Copy that. Imagine a Low Viz VF-0?

I've always wondered why Japanese producers of modern anime, toys, or whatever can't get someone fluent in both English and Japanese to provide aid in composing some of their works? For example, Bandai's Space Battleship Yamato Mechanic File toy states the following on the box: "The Earth is attacked...There is not fate of the Earth besides Great Navigation to Iscandar of the light year distance...to save the human..." and so on, and so on... I could poke my eyes out with a spoon reading this stuff...

.........You don't think they'd release the same thing again, do you? Ok, if Yamato did that, then I would be angry...

'Low Viz owners such as myself shouldn't feel so slighted. The next generation of '48s, whether 'Low Viz or Stealth Vf-1's, are another version of the theme and are different than what we already have...Relax, guys!

Relativity people, relativity. What works for me, may not work for you, or Hurin, or the drunk and sorry guilt-riddled soldiers in the Veteran's hospital and vice versa. So......you don't think it's criminal to take a life? Wow. Society should really fear people that could be so ready to claim the life of another, for whatever reason. TAKING LIFE IS TAKING LIFE, NO MATTER WHAT THE JUSTIFICATION OR THE CIRCUMSTANCES BEHIND IT... This thread in a thread is pointless-I'm done here. If you guys wanna' continue this then PM me, let's not waste any more of MW's time...

Macross fandom will continue to flourish as long as there are people who fancy stories that feature cutting edge fighter craft that transform into robots and things, guided by big haired pilots who dim-wittedly fumble about the women in their lives...

Like I said, it's very fashionable to think this way now. Everything is relative. There are no capital -T- Truths anymore. Everything depends on a point of view. All of which is true, but there is also objective reason, and post-modern moral relativism doesn't totally supplant objective facts despite people behaving as though it does (usually because spouting such things makes them appear to be oh-so-enlightened). Really, my understanding is that former enemies in war often develop friendships later on. There are even individual stories of people paying respects cordially to family members of those they are believed to have killed (in aerial combat especially) with no rancor taking place. And I would daresay that the vast majority of people who lost friends and family in WWII no longer hold a grudge against their former enemies (though I personally know of a rare exception). How many people do you know who behave that way when their loved one was murdered on the street? Again, "murder" and "kill" are two very different words with two very different meanings. The distinction between them is important. To conflate the two is to give up on having any meaningful dialogue about the nature of killing and whether it is ever justified. And again, as is usual with rhetoric like this: That is an overly simplistic way of looking at things masquerading as sophisticated and enlightened fair-mindedness. 367001[/snapback] H, buddy, the fact that you agreed that relativity is a factor to consider only validates my approach to this topic of ours. By their base definitions the words murder and kill have different meaning but they have the same result: life is prematurely and unnaturally ended. It is the point of view of the people analyzing or processing this premature ending of life that will decide whether it was in fact a murder or a killing. Obviously, various people will decide differently on the situation at hand, and you CANNOT confine the definition of an event such as life being taken by another individual or party to literary definitions...It's all relative! In regards to the example you cited using war veterans of opposing factions seeking peaceful terms with one another, do your really think this is how conflicts like those resolve themselves? From time to time that happens, of course, but we don't need to be reminded that not all people involved in these circumstances reach those same, peaceful resoloutions; there are countless other war veterans or people familiar to them, that still believe that their losses were the result of brutal murder from the "other side," and not what you would call a justifiable melee on a foreign shore. Once again, I and my neighbors still contend that the young boy performing his duty in Iraq was murdered; I'm sure that the persons who took his life would say it was a justifiable killing. In summary, my position about war and the taking of life is as follows: killing, murdering, however you choose to label it-the premature ending of ANY life is NEVER justifiable, although usually UNAVOIDABLE, hence the simplistic rhetoric that you won't accept. It really troubles me that some people can actually RATIONALIZE the taking of a life and categorize it-I'm speechless to that point. My mother is an RN at a local Veteran's Hospital. Talking to the old soldiers there allowed me to learn this: a soldier that has performed lethal duties for God and Country will tell you that they did what they had to do, but their actions have stained them and their people for the rest of their days....Murder, kill, what difference does it REALLY make? Why make the question more complicated than it needs to be? Lives were prematurely lost, and any ideas or discussions of heroism is ridiculous...

wtf?!

Just about any civilization or people has gone to war. What were the reasons? There are countless of them to explain why millions of lives over the course of human and sci-fi history had to be prematurely ended for whatever purpose. For some, it's Iraqi oil and land, others, the fight for survival against an invading alien force, and yet for others, the fear of losing control over a society that had existed a certain way for generations; what difference does it make? Anyone can and probably will go to war if they feel threatened or otherwise challenged for power. War IS about power, and about who eventually remains IN power. Bodolza needed to eliminate the human race because it's culture was an immediate threat to their way of life and thus his power...

That's great work. I wouldn't worry about the vehicle being too chunky, as it's a tank after all. Now, how difficult would you say this conversion was to complete? Is it a "perfect" transformation, or one of those Lego-type deals?

This thread is about heroicism in the Macross story. We had to include a discussion on the concept of heroism, murder and killing, but only as it pertains to war and the war in the Macross story... See, it's all good!

Why are they making such a big deal about the loss of the Resurrection ship anyway? You can't tell me that was the only one of its kind...

Kill Unjustly? Who is to say what is just? Don't think that killing a soldier on the beaches of Normandy is murder? Try telling that to the family or the people of the dead soldier, whether Allied or German, and I'm sure they'd disagree with you. I know of a local kid who served as a Ranger in Iraq but was killed last year. As far as we're concerned here, he was murdered by insurgents. From the perspective of the people who ended this boy's life it was a killing in defense of their ideals, flock of camels, whatever. It's about relativity my friend, and a dictionary isn't necessary for that. From the human's point of view, they killed justly to defend their planet and the fate of mankind, as the invading forces were unjustly murderous and intended to destroy the human race. From the alien's point of view, humans were just as dangerous to their existence and the following assault against Earth was to keep mankind from being a mortal threat to them. Each side could cry self-defense and justful killing on their part, and cry murderous intent on the part of their opponent. Which group is merely a group of killers, and which is a group of murderers? I don't know, it depends on how we want to look at it. The point I am trying to drive home in response to the title of this thread is that no one's hands are clean in war and heroicism is irrelevant...

'Fraid trouble's already been here. Why over-complicate a simple concept as murder? Murder is what it is, despite the context of how, where and why it happened. Don't get me wrong though, there are plenty of circumstances where murder is appropriate, such as when giant 50 foot aliens try to incinerate you, some punk tries to rob you, your next door neighbor's kid drops your 'Low Vis, etc..

Lol, the Apollo groping Starbuck shot was cute-it's too bad we can't have animated avatars anymore...

Fashionable? Lol. Fashion is irrelevant and an odd concept to mention when you're talking about taking life for the sake of a territorial dispute, whether in deep space or oil fields in the Middle East. AS I SAID, slaughtering your enemy, banishing them into non-existence is perfectly fine with me, after all it's what should have happened in Iraq instead of the bloody impasse that exists now, I just don't think that the act of doing so is heroic. If some of you find murder on a grand scale to be something to sing about then knock yourself out... Now, I've got some freckles to count...

Actually, checking out that picture of "Dana" makes me want to say enough, already...

That's coolio, but what about the other modes?

I'll take care of that... There are no heroes in the Macross universe. With all of the destruction and loss of life that ensued, whether in DYRL or the t.v. series, I fail to recognize any sort of victory or other cause to celebrate. For all intents and purposes I personally believe in wiping out your enemies from existence, however even I know that there are no heroes in war!

Well, they did create a protoculture powered mechanical horse. I think the question should be "What were they smoking?" 366728[/snapback] No, no no no. I refuse to acknowledge the "literary" productions of Jack McKinney and the Sentinels novels AND their unfinished cartoon work...

Dong-Wook Lee? What, is he related to Long-Duck Dong?

They've been hanging around Tarantino, or something...

I miss Fisk...