Jeff J

Fair enough, but I think she still had the attitude adjustment in series. I just mentioned Robotech because most Robo fans I've encountered HATE Minmay, and I can't really blame them for it.

Did the Japanese viewers who watched the show during its original run (and by extension, didn't get influenced by the Robotech version) feel this negatively about Minmay from the original series? Or do people sort of forget about the character adjustment she goes in the last bunch of episodes of the series? I don't know why people hate her that much. Yes, she did face palm-stupid things, she didn't fully appreciate Hikaru early on, and initially wasn't cognizant of the horrors going on in the war, but all of that totally changes in the series. Toward the end, she gets the attitude adjustment you were looking for. We find out that she's super grateful for all the soldiers' sacrifices (especially Hikaru), was pretty compassionate toward all the war-torn communities whereas Kaifun was a drunk jerk controlling her life and siphoning as much money as possible from everyone, and in the last 10 episodes or so her biggest desire pretty much was to be with Hikaru. The last two selfish things she does were pretty understandable: she walks out on a concert (an impromptu one that Kaifun scheduled while sabotaging her best chance to get together with Hikaru) and asking Hikaru to quit UN Spacy because it was too stressful to wait for him to come home from dangerous military action. The latter, though, was counterbalanced by the fact that she was willing to give up her career for him. I don't want to sound too anti-Robotech regarding Minmay; I think HG probably made her less sympathetic, and Lisa more, because they wanted sensitive kids watching to feel better about Rick's choice at the end. That said, Robotech's Minmay isn't as representative of the original version the way the other main characters are. Seriously, you can line up corresponding scenes and see a pretty noticeable difference. In fact, I have. Maybe I'll share it sometime.

Thanks for the link. I've started reading the blog. I started with the DYRL entry from last December. One thing I learned was that Robotech (accidentally?) totally trashed Minmay's rep forever. Yes, she was bad in Macross, but in Robotech she was far less a sympathetic character, particularly in the first 10 and last 10 episodes. Seems like anyone who watched Robotech first will, in anime terms, "NEVER FORGIVE" Minmay. Honestly, I think her selfish outburst in DYRL is far worse than anything that happened in the show, and thus she's more sympathetic to me in the show than the movie. But Robotech version is deservedly reviled, I guess. Ironically, I stopped being an otaku around 2002, when the VHS fansub market started declining and it became so easy to get subbed anime for free over the internet. I don't know why; logically, that should've elevated me to an even higher level of anime geek, but for some reason the easy access took away something (mystique? fun?) and I started caring less and less. The last major anime purchase I made, I think, is the AnimEigo boxed set, and I preordered it on day one of preorders. That's what you call backward practicality, I suppose.

I guess that's what happens when projects under the same franchise label get released 25 years apart. Invariably, you're going to meet folks who have no exposure to the old stuff, but really love the new ones. I also met a lot of people who only knew Macross through Plus, but that was because it was the late 1990's. BTW, does SyFy still have Anime Mondays? I know Mac+ was on their cycle. Guess I'm starting to sound like a curmudgeonly old man... again...

My bad. I'm not trying to exclude anyone. Was just saying once you start liking Macross, it really doesn't matter if you don't like the follow-ups, that doesn't make you any less a fan. I do think it'd be weird, though, to find someone who says "I love Macross!" but thought lowly of the original. Not trying to start trouble... So do you guys think it's better or worse, or of no significance at all, that all the major Macross projects feel so different from one another?

It's certainly possible to like mecha designs without liking the storyline, but it's probably also possible to like a storyline while disliking the mecha. For me and Macross Frontier, I was kind of neutral about the mecha. My collecting days were long over, so I just wanted the VF's to be good enough, as opposed to atrocious. Even though I enjoyed the series, I can't tell you any specifics about the mecha right now, but since I can't remember anything bad then they probably were good. Anyway, I was speaking specifically from the storyline perspective. I think it'd be awfully hard not to like the original Macross series and still call yourself a Macross fan. Disliking any follow-up, however, doesn't disqualify your status.

Hello folks. I haven't posted here in a long time. I was long time Macross fan throughout the nineties and early part of the 2000's. I moved, didn't have access to alt.fan.macross anymore (that was my biggest connection to Macross fans; incidentally, I was probably the first regular there...), and fell out of the loop. I tried jumping back on the bandwagon, first with Zero, then with Frontier, but I didn't stick around for long. It's not really a knock on either series (actually, I disliked Zero, but that's beside the point), but maybe it was just that life and being a "hard core" Macross and anime fan got in the way of each other at times, and I unfortunately picked life. I was talking on the phone with my sister about 6 weeks ago, and in passing she asked me about some differences between Robotech and SDFM. I started explaining some of the differences, and I decided to make a Dailymotion video (YouTube region blocked my stuff, grrr....) to show her side-by-side the differences she was asking about. And then I started feeling like a college otaku again. That was a lot of fun for me, and thus I felt really compelled to lurk this forum again. So why bring up this mostly irrelevant story? Keith was laying out (BTW, Keith, I remember you well from AFM days... I see you're no less passionate than ever, and good for you, no sarcasm) some criteria of what makes a Macross fan. Well, I was as big a Macross fan as any 7-15 years ago, and today I think I only have a great love for the original series. I still like Plus, I liked Frontier, I liked parts of 7, etc., but I think if you aren't a fan of the original story, you're not a "Macross fan." You're a "II fan," or a "Plus fan," or a "7 fan," or Zero, or Frontier, whatever, but if you love the original Macross then you are a Macross fan no matter if you disavow anything that followed it. Oh yeah, and Robotech doesn't count, otherwise you're a "Robotech fan."

Hello, newbie to the board here (but not a Macross n00b, just a guy who was just on Macross hiatus for about 5 years...). Anyway, here's my ranking: 1. Robotech... JUST KIDDING! Seriously: 1. SDF Macross. Nothing beats the original. It's a must for any anime enthusiast. Outdated music, outdated animation, and soon to be in the past relative to reality's timeline, it's still the best. Plus, there's no 2-8 without no. 1. Still my favorite televised series of all time, American or foreign. 2. DYRL. Basically, it's what I call striking the iron while it's hot. I like to lump it together with SDF Macross, but it's not as though it's not good in its own right. 3. Plus. It's basically what any spin-off/side series should be. Doesn't mess with the original's canon, is highly entertaining, and is rewatchable. Great animation for its time, good music. 4. Frontier. I haven't watched much anime in the past 5 years, but I'm so glad I went out of my way to catch it. So enjoyable, and has a lot of the nods to its predecessors to make fanboys go wild. Legimitately good in its own right, almost a perfect way to celebrate 25 years of Macross. 5. Flashback. Probably going back to the well one time too many, and there's really no story. Just a few nice pieces of original animation and music. But hey, I'm a sucker for Hikaru, Minmay, and Misa, so it's going high on my list anyway. But why'd Minmay cut her hair?! 6. II. Okay, this is where taking 5 years off from Macross helps putting things into perspective. I rate this lowly because, as I like to joke, it really should've been titled "DYRL Again" instead of "Lovers Again" because it borrowed too many elements of DYRL, but did it seemingly worse in every way. The heroes are less interesting, the villains are less appealing, the music is less memorable and the mecha was disappointing. But, I bumped it up one notch from where I did several years ago because I see it now as a conservative attempt to do Macross: use a formula proven to please the fans. The result is a flat attempt to revitalize a series that luckily didn't do anything to harm canon. 7. 7 (et al). Just a coincidence that I rated 7 seventh. Anyhoo, it just didn't appeal. I was interested enough to pursue the whole series (back in the day, that meant finding a fansubber or trader and getting the series on 13 or so VHS cassettes... so nostalgic! ), and I thought the most appealing parts where anything that referenced SDF Macross or DYRL. I'd say it was mostly disappointing, but I had tempered expectations anyway so I consider it worth watching. As they joked in Frontier, Basara (and 7) is more dated now than Minmay (and SDF Macross), ironically. 8. Zero. I'm probably the only Macross fan in the world who ardently disliked Zero. It felt like one big retcon, which obviously is bad for a guy who loved SDF Macross as much as I did. I was so excited about its release in '02, I ended up only watching the first two episodes because I started severely losing interest after the second chapter. It wasn't until just this month I rewatched 1-2, then finished 3-5, stemming from my enthusiasm of watching Frontier. On the bright side, I really liked the animation and battles, and who doesn't like seeing Roy Focker again?

Hi, sorry for bumping a year old thread, but my quest of the weekend was to relive the old AFM roots. Name's Jeff. Last name Jhee. Some of you might recall me. Hadn't done anything anime related in about 5 years until I started watching again this past year, including the highly entertaining Frontier. Reminded me of the good old days, and man, they were really good. Probably don't have the time and energy to be such the fanatic that I once was, but this weekend I wanted to experience the good old days. You know, when the Zentradi's leader was officially named Gorg Bodolzaa, as opposed to what it is now. Isn't the funny, you go away for five years, and a fictional character's official spelling of his name changes? Anyway, if any of you would like to, please send me a PM. I would like to hear from you guys.

Hello, Newbie (sort of) here. Allow me to introduce myself. Name's Jeff. I was one of the first regulars (if not the very first regular) on the alt.fan.macross usenet newsgroup, circa 1997-2003. In '03, I was moving around, couldn't log into the newsgroup, and just kind of let it be. Five years later, I got back into Macross, thanks to Frontier (I blame Macross Zero, in part, for driving me away from the series, but that's another story altogether). Macross World guys Shawn and Graham used to post there a lot. So did guys like Windjammer, Paul, Keith, and many more. Anyway, I don't bother with usenet anymore, but I was wondering if those guys were still around, as well as into Macross. I wouldn't mind "reliving the old days," for lack of a better expression. I hope this kind of topic isn't inappropriate, but before Macross World, alt.fan.macross used to be the best place to chat Macross, and I think it's worth giving the old board a nod. BTW, my last name is Jhee. Just in case that helps ring a bell. Thanks, and hope to see some familiars down the line.