edwin3060

Ok, I think its pretty disingenuous of you to imply that the max cruising speeds stated on that page are relevant to our discussion when they are not, so I'll post them all here: * Cruising speed o VF-19 Custom (standard in atmosphere at 10000 m): Mach 5.5+ o VF-19A (standard in atmosphere at 10000 m): Mach 5.1+ o VF-19F (standard in atmosphere at 10000 m): Mach 5+ o VF-19S(standard in atmosphere at 10000 m): Mach 5.1+ * Max Cruising speed o at 30,000+ m: Mach 25+ [(8.5+ km/sec)] o VF-19A (at 30,000+ m): Mach 21+ -Macross Compendium As you can see, the Max Cruising Speeds are Mach 21+ or Mach 25+, and only relevant in the really upper atmosphere-- which is not what our discussion is about, which is why I didn't include it. But, in the relevant speed/altitude range, the cruising speed is Mach 5.1+, which implies it could go faster than that, while the max speed for the VF-25 is Mach 5.0+, and the additional words after that imply it cannot go faster. * Maximum speed: o standard, in atmosphere at 10000 m: Mach 5.0+, on account of the fuselage heat-resistance boundary. -Macross Compendium I've quoted all the relevant parts so we all don't get confused again . P.S. I think you made a mistake-- the word "Max" does appear with "Cruising speed", but that's for the YF-19/21, not the VF-19/22-- and the discussion is about the VF-19/22.

Interesting. But isn't the air density related to temperature as well? Anyway, the VF-19 seems to be able to straddle the hypersonic boundary a little because it can go up to Mach 5.5? The custom can anyway, and the others can do Mach 5.1. Actually, given the way the VFs engines work, might it be possible that it doesn't even have to slow the air down to subsonic speeds? As I understand it, the need for shock waves is to slow the air down to subsonic so that combustion can occur-- but since no combustion is required, we could just maintain supersonic air flow through the engine all the while?

Dude-- I quoted the Macross Compendium, which I understand is canon. And it doesn't have "max". If you got problems with the VF-19 stats there, take it up with SK. Otherwise, don't have a hissy fit. Here it is again, * Cruising speed o VF-19 Custom (standard in atmosphere at 10000 m): Mach 5.5+ o VF-19A (standard in atmosphere at 10000 m): Mach 5.1+ o VF-19F (standard in atmosphere at 10000 m): Mach 5+ o VF-19S(standard in atmosphere at 10000 m): Mach 5.1+ --Macross Compendium

Yes, and your wish is that SK will retcon the VF-25 into the SuperDuperUltraHeroMecha that you wish it to be? Except that sketchley's translation says that it can't go faster or the fuselage will melt. The VF-19/22 has no such limit Arguing hypotheticals again? Not replying to your post dude-- replying to someone else. P.S. Don't get all pissy cuz I just used your math against you. Peace out!

Irrelevant. We still have no idea what Guld's speed was.

Ok I was talking about the VF-19, where Mach 5.1 was the cruising speed, not the VF-25 where Mach 5 was the max standard speed-- so yea.

True! Maybe SK should make use of older designs like the VF-4, VF-9 etc that have been seen more in the games as well. It would certainly give us a better chance of seeing them made as toys!

Just goes to show you shouldn't be spreading your legs carelessly

Looks like some of the design elements went into the VF-0A... Esp the head, the wings etc. I'll be doing my part too! I hope they eventually produce every single one of those though.

Meltran's don't use bras, they use antigravity devices

Graham has discounted the 1/100 Yamato PT valk line so either Yamato hates him again or it's probably not going to come out. I'm going with the latter. Also, can we say VF-19A, VF-11C and (maybe) VF-22? Woohoo! For sure the VF-19A and the VF-11C will come out, since the GNU-DOUs for that are out already.

Yep. There's actually a whole bunch of us who are Minmey-neutral at best We just keep out heads low.

If I may ask, what happened to your YF-21?

Yea I wish a VF-27 had come out as well!

That's just AMAZING. Kudos to you!

Oooh heavy weathering-- Just a little too heavy for my taste, makes it look a little too cartoonish. But still great!

You mean the opening song? Yea I was wondering, whats up with that? I got the gSS sub and the OP was some guy singing-- is that how it was broadcast or is gSS screwing around? Love the ED. esp. the vocal opening! The whole episode was kinda predictable though--- from the moment Setsuna said tt he would shoot instead I knew that Anew would die by the end of the episode. I'm still hoping that the writers will throw a twist and have Saji and Louise come out ok, even though Louise is an innovator half-breed now.

The designs look great, but the inclusion of gigantic swords just doesn't seem Macrossy to me.

I hope we get one for each major fighter class! I.e. VF-1, then maybe VF-4, then VF-11, VF-17/VF-171 etc, YF/VF-19, YF-21/VF-22, VF-0, SV-51, VF-25, VF-27.

The first (older torrent) on Gubaba's site is all SDFM and DYRL music, I think, while the second is the 1st episode of SDFM.

I think it's more your poor understanding of semantics this time. Don't blame your failures on me. Because in this case, the acceleration is perpendicular to the direction of travel, thus not affecting the magnitude of velocity, which is the relevant factor in the discussion. Urmm.. so? I just proved that the F-35 is not superior in every way to current generation fighters. So, for example, in a short term energy fight, the F-16 may well beat the F-35 due to its higher thrust to weight. Not at all-- like I said, we don't know the limits of the ISC, since we have established that the 27.5G figure is only for the airframe. Similarly to the F-16/F-35 example, a VF-19 can beat a VF-25 with identical pilots in both due to its superior atmospheric properties. From your equations, Turn rate x velocity = g x TAN (angle) Substituting into the first equation, Turn radius = velocity^2 ÷ Turn rate x velocity Therefore, turn radius = velocity / turn rate. QED. Except that model number tells us nothing about thrust. Highly unlikely to the point of incredibility that the VF-25 can pull more negative g's than it can pull positive gs

It is much more complicated than that. Because SK has only provided Mach numbers and not true air speed, your indicated Mach number would go up at the same true air speed as your altitude increased, since the speed of sound decreases with decreasing density. Don't forget that the denser atmosphere would increase thrust as well due to the operation of the TRT, which would offset some of the drag.

I think it has more to do with the ECA and pin point barrier than the engines, since I don't think thrust is a factor in top speeds for valks. So maybe the VF-27 is unique in that it can utilise its ECA and pin point barrier in fighter mode. All the more reason to love it!

Irrelevant, since for the purposes of the discussion the stats must be real, else no discussion can occur at all. That's certainly true for the VF-25, but not for the VF-19/22, where Mach 5 is only the standard cruising speed, implying a much higher max cruisisng speed (even at 10000 m). We have no idea what speed Guld was going at when the YF-21 started to melt. Hobbes211/VF-25: Speed doesn't do anything-- its the acceleration that kills. So the limiting factor for the VF-25 vs the VF-27 is that the VF-27 can use its pinpoint barrier system to shield it's fuselage from the heat for short periods when going up to Mach 9, but the VF-25 can not. From all the data we have, we still don't know exactly what the limits of the ISC are, since it is established that the 27.5G limit is for the airframe, not the ISC. We probably have an upper limit of 46.5G though, inferring from the VF-27.

I knew that. I was just waiting for one of you to point out, yourself, one area where the VF-25 was inferior to the VF-19, since : Fighter Mode * Cruising speed o VF-19 Custom (standard in atmosphere at 10000 m): Mach 5.5+ o VF-19A (standard in atmosphere at 10000 m): Mach 5.1+ o VF-19F (standard in atmosphere at 10000 m): Mach 5+ o VF-19S(standard in atmosphere at 10000 m): Mach 5.1+ -from the Macross Compendium