Mospeada and Southern Cross endings

[ewilen]

A couple of things that I've been wondering about with these shows. Note that I'm talking about the originals, not the Robotech versions.

1. In Mospeada, when the Inbit fly off the planet, they also destroy the incoming warheads which were launched by the Mars Base fleet. Not only that, it looks like they destroy the entire fleet, killing everyone on board. Yet no one seems to comment on this at the end. I wonder what the creators of the show are trying to say, and how the (original) audience reacted to this development?

If my point isn't clear, compare Mospeada with Macross (episode 27) and the last episode of Southern Cross. In both of these shows, a huge battle leads to devastation on both sides, but once it's been well established that War is Bad--with unanimity having been achieved by killing all the characters still in favor of war--the fighting ends. In Mospeada, once the Inbit decide to abandon Earth, all they had to do was put the nukes out of commission and then nobody needs to die. The destruction of the fleet is gratuitous. Or is it?

2. The descriptions of Southern Cross that filtered over to the US before the ADV release (look at this and this) claim that the ending of the show tells us that the survivors of the war are going to become Zor. But this is hardly spelled out in the actual show, with the only ominous sign being the sprouting protozor flower in the last shot.

(This isn't the only discrepancy between the descriptions and the actual show, by the way. The whole "history" of the Zor's earlier occupation of Glorie is nowhere to be found in the show.)

So--what are we to make of this? Is the ending deliberately ambiguous? An opening for a sequel? Or does it clearly say that the colonists will--or won't--end up becoming Zor? The idea that they will definitely become Zor would make for pretty bad storytelling, in my opinion. Not because it's a downer, but simply because it contradicts the overall theme of the story.

[Pat Payne]

I'll bet what happened with Southern Cross is that the show was probably supposed to run longer, but got cut down (like Macross was) and they had to throw together an ending. I always thought that the ending of SC made no sense, and seemed way too forced.

[Keith]

Mospeada: Most likely the fleet was destroyed, but then considering they were about to Nuke Earth, do you honestly think Stik & gang would care about them?

Southern Cross: The survivors were "not" going to turn into Zor. Seifriet destroyed all of the protozor by ramming the ship into it. The ending represented the surviving humans & surviving Zor on Glorie facing a future of having to rebuild together in a "human" society.

[ewilen]

Pat: actually, I think the pacing of SC works reasonably well, and the ending works for me except for the lack of clarity. (See above & below.)

Keith: A majority of the people on the fleet had nothing to do with the decision to nuke Earth. And even the ones that did, were making a hard choice out of desperation. It just seems to me that an enormous sacrifice is passed over with barely any comment. I'm tempted to interpret this as a form of harsh justice--collective punishment for the fleet's "sin" of trying to destroy Earth.

As Final Vegeta has argued in another thread about Macross, it seems that a common theme of anime in that era was, if not pacifism, anti-militarism. In each of Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada, the combatants who pursue war most eagerly all end up dying, usually in an apocalyptic flash of light accompanied by thousands or millions of innocents. It's hard not to see a reaction to the Japanese experience of World War II. And if it's correct to see this as a common theme, perhaps the original audience simply didn't need an explanation for something that American audiences might find strange and gratuitous.

(Another article on this overall topic can be found here.)

Regarding Southern Cross, I don't see how you can be so sure. Yes, Siefriet's personal sacrifice wouldn't make sense if it turns out that the survivors are doomed anyway. Yet the final shot is a healthy protozor plant blooming. At minimum, that looks like a challenge, if not a threat, to the future of the Glorie inhabitants.

[Amped]

Regarding Southern Cross, I don't see how you can be so sure.

He is sure 'cause he's KEITH! 'nuf said!

[Myriad]

Southern Cross: The survivors were "not" going to turn into Zor. Seifriet destroyed all of the protozor by ramming the ship into it. The ending represented the surviving humans & surviving Zor on Glorie facing a future of having to rebuild together in a "human" society.

Interesting......

I feel the opposite though. Time and the Terrans healed Glorie from the wars of the past. The Zor flowers were able to grow again. Sure you can try to stop the flowers growth, but a ship crashing into a large patch of them and spreading them all over would make it difficult to do.

The flower's growth is not really explained to well. I can see how the arguement could go both ways. Maybe the ship did kill them maybe it didn't. The last Episode is called Genesis. It gives no clue. LOL! Genesis of the Zor, Terrans, Glorie, the flowers or the little rat bunnies?

Whether or not the Zor and Terrans become symbiotic with the flowers again is kind of left in the open if you feel the flowers were not destroyed. Perhaps some Terrans and Zor go the way of the flowers and some don't. The ones who don't want to would probably leave Glorie.

I like series that were not too popular. That leaves room for lots of viewer translations. Bad ratings equal no bad sequals.

[Myriad]

The Refles took away the Terrans means of destroying the planet before and after the Inbit left. All those military people equal bad news for Earth. She saw what they would do to defeat the Inbit and did not like it. Who knows what they would have done after the Inbit left. The Refles did the same thing when the Inbit came. The things that were first targeted were things that were destroying the planet. People, power plants, and pollution causing centers. Does that make the Inbit better then the humans? No! The Refles killing all those civilian and military people is just as bad. War is bad no matter what side you are on seems to be part of the theme. Damn Dirty Humans! Damn Dirty Inbit! Damn Dirty Keith!

Edited May 13, 2004 by Myriad

[F-ZeroOne]

A couple of things that I've been wondering about with these shows. Note that I'm talking about the originals, not the Robotech versions.

1. In Mospeada, when the Inbit fly off the planet, they also destroy the incoming warheads which were launched by the Mars Base fleet. Not only that, it looks like they destroy the entire fleet, killing everyone on board. Yet no one seems to comment on this at the end. I wonder what the creators of the show are trying to say, and how the (original) audience reacted to this development?

One guess would be is that, for very obvious reasons, the Japanese regard nuclear weapons as the Ultimate Evil, and anyone associated with them is going to get what they deserve - in a lot of anime, users of such weapons often have unpleasant fates.

[ewilen]

I like series that were not too popular. That leaves room for lots of viewer translations. Bad ratings equal no bad sequals.

That's an interesting take on things...and all too true, unfortunately.

[Mislovrit]

For those of you who seen the last epsiode of Mospeada, just many nukes were launch and what was their yield per missile?

F-ZeroOne to many Japanese (well the animation directors) technology in all of it's myriad forms and humans are the Ultimate Evil to the planet not just nukes.

[Phyrox]

I don't know the yield per missile, but they launch about a half dozen of them...and they are, well quite big.

The forward grey portion is the actual warhead, and that is a cruiser atatched to the missile, not in the background.

[ewilen]

I'd say that's going a bit far, Mislovrit. I can think of many anime, in addition to SDF Macross, SC, and Mospeada, that offer a critical view of technology or humanity, but they don't necessarily condemn all technology or all of humanity. E.g., Miyazaki views technological advance as far from an unalloyed good, yet he seems to love both nature and flying machines. In Princess Mononoke (not one of my favorites, but useful as an example) he even shows technological development in a somewhat positive light.

If there's a common theme in many anime I think it's more of a critique of the view (rather stereotyped) that "technological progress" will necessarily lead to an improvement of the human condition. To offer another example, Wings of Honneamise certainly offers a negative view of much of modernity but at the same time it portrays space exploration as an opportunity for spiritual uplift and expansion of peace.

[Mislovrit]

To offer another example, Wings of Honneamise certainly offers a negative view of much of modernity

but at the same time it portrays space exploration as an opportunity for spiritual uplift and expansion of peace.

I can think of many anime, in addition to SDF Macross, SC, and Mospeada, that offer a critical view of technology or humanity,

Hugely overgeneralizing on their part.

but they don't necessarily condemn all technology or all of humanity.

Sure as hell ain't approving it either.

E.g., Miyazaki views technological advance as far from an unalloyed good,

Which field of technology(ies) he sees of being very bad. Cause it seems to me he's see almost all technological advancement as evil.

yet he seems to love both nature and flying machines.

Loves contradicting himself.

In Princess Mononoke (not one of my favorites, but useful as an example) he even shows technological development in a somewhat positive light.

What positive example?

If there's a common theme in many anime I think it's more of a critique of the view (rather stereotyped) that "technological progress" will necessarily lead to an improvement of the human condition.

Contracy to popular believe "technological progress" is the best thing for humanity, barring the little problem of low reproductive rates amongst educated First Worlders.

To offer another example, Wings of Honneamise certainly offers a negative view of much of modernity

What the hell is wrong with modernity?

but at the same time it portrays space exploration as an opportunity for spiritual uplift and expansion of peace.

The scale of naivety is sickening.

[Mislovrit]

I don't know the yield per missile, but they launch about a half dozen of them...and they are, well quite big.

The forward grey portion is the actual warhead, and that is a cruiser atatched to the missile, not in the background.

Depending on the tech level of the nukes, their yield can be in the mid-megatons to low gigatons. Other words no worse than a couple of volcanos erupting at once.

[LePoseur]

As for the Inbits killing off the whole fleet, including those who were, more or less, just along for the ride, I'd have to use the "contractors on the Death Star argument" from Clerks as an explanation. Even though I've never seen the movie, I thought that was a great little bit of dialog.

Guilt by association? Too strict? Maybe, but I prefer the current ending to one where they would have just absorbed the nukes and left those maniacs who were in favor of that extreme plan to come down and rule the Earth. But then again, that could just be me.

[Keith]

Considering all the Zor civiliians were abandoned by their own leaders due to falling levels of Protozor, Jeanne herself rejected the joining process, and again, Seifriet rammed the only existing source of Protozor with his dying action, I think it's pretty safe to say they didn't re-assimilate with the plants. If they had, then there would have been 3 of everyone in that last shot, 'nuff said.

The whole point was to bring humanity back to the Zor.

Edited May 14, 2004 by Keith

[ewilen]

The scale of naivety is sickening.

Mislovrit, I began a response to your post, with examples in support of my points, but first I have to ask--is this directed at me, or at Wings of Honneamise?

[Mislovrit]

 

Mislovrit, I began a response to your post, with examples in support of my points, but first I have to ask--is this directed at me, or at Wings of Honneamise?

"The scale of naivety is sickening." is direct at WoH, not you.

[ewilen]

Very well. While I wouldn't use the term "sickening", I agree that there's a lot of moralizing in anime. Sometimes this gives the impression of trying to impart "universal" lessons which are of limited applicability in reality.

But the validity of the moralizing is rather beside the point. At least, before you go off condemning the themes expressed in various anime, you might want to make sure you're talking about what's actually there, instead of caricaturing anime directors and "many Japanese" as misanthropic Luddites who think that "technology in all of it's myriad forms and humans are the Ultimate Evil to the planet".

I'll expand on two examples. In Princess Mononoke, although Miyazaki portrays technology and economic development as destructive toward nature, he doesn't demonize them either. In fact, he shows the social benefits of development, such as the fact that Lady Eboshi's Iron Town provides employment and a new life for ex-prostitutes and lepers.

As for Wings of Honneamise, it shows a modern world beset by international tension--where technological advances serve to increase the destructive potential of human conflict. It also shows alienation and spiritual decline. However, an astronaut is the hero, and space exploration is shown in a very positive light.

In conclusion, both animes may express their themes rather broadly, but they're far from unidimensional.