Neon Genesis Evagelion

[Godzilla]

Ok,

I am lost in the end. Could someone explain what the hell went on in the last 2 episodes? Also, who shot Kaji? Was it the Dr? And how the hell did the Dr.'s mom die? I assume she murdered Rie because she was call her the old hag and she lost it.

[areaseven]

As far as who shot Kaji, the mystery was never solved. However, nearly all points lead to Misato herself pulling the trigger on him.

Naoko Akagi was being called an "old hag" by Rei I. As a result, she snapped and strangled Rei I to death. Realizing what she had done, she fell to her own death.

[KingNor]

the way i understood it (wich i barely do) is that...

the last two episodes are mental images in the hero-boys head shingee(sp?)

basicly its the culmination of all his emotional problems which turn out to be the main focus of the show, and not the evas fighting angels and all that, wich i guess could kind of be considered a side story that is wraped up seperately in the "end of evangelion" movie made later.

the entire evangelion show is supposedly focused on all of shingee's internal issues, like his feelings for his father, his feelings for all the girls he lives with, as well as the guys. his commitment to growing up and handleing forces biger than him, and issues about acceptance.

the evas, angels, and nerv are just eye candy for the emotional rollercoaster.

thats how i perceved it. alot of people see it in diffrent ways.

gainax had made such memorable and intence giant robots in the evas that i think alot of fans feel.. kinda... put off, that they turned out to be somewhat trivial to the "real" meaning of the story. the "end of evangelion" shows other events going on 'during' the last two episodes of the serise, and focuses more on the evas and how they fit into this big cosmic thing thats going on during shingees mental apacolyps and shows (i think) more of what happens after he comes back to his sences.

i really and honestly don't know how accurate that is, thats what i got out of the show. im watching it again actually to see what i missed the first time around.

Edited February 22, 2004 by KingNor

[Golden Arms]

Kaji wasn't killed by Misato. She wouldn't have been fearing a phone call that she knew was never going to ring if she had killed him. He was probably killed by his contact or some Seele agent. Dr. Akagi shot herself if I remember correctly, you hear a gunshot and then theres lots of blood. In regards to the last two eps-- unit 01 initiates complementation, everyone evolves i.e. becomes a single entity. Shinji becomes a god of sorts and realizes that people will always face loneliness. So he decides to return everything to normal and allow others to have their distinctness.

[Memphis Egyptologist]

Misato did not kill Kaji! Go to EVA Otaku and look at the FAQ. There, using the Japanese Filmbooks as evidence, Japanese director Hideaki Anno states that SEELE or NERV intelligence killed Kaji not Misato. In the manga, a uniformed, white-gloved individual with a different type of gun than Misato's killed Kaji. Misato loved Kaji too much to go as far as killing him. Someone else did.

[NERV]

Kaji wasn't killed by Misato. She wouldn't have been fearing a phone call that she knew was never going to ring if she had killed him. He was probably killed by his contact or some Seele agent.

it probably was misato and thats why she threw such a fit when she got that message on the answering machine

[Memphis Egyptologist]

Nope, Misato got upset because she realized that that message meant Kaji was not coming back. Why would Kaji have given Misato the capsule on his research into SEELE and NERV if he could not trust her completely? Again, if Misato had killed Kaji, as pointed out on the Evaotaku page, that would have appeared in the Complementation process of the final episodes.

[Anubis]

It wasn't Misato. People seem to think that because he said "You're late" that it was Misato. In Kaji's style he just made one last Joke with the agent that came and killed him. A SEELE agent, as Kaji and Fuyuutski's discussion pointed towards (a conversation that was expanded somewhat in the DC). Fuyuutski told him that releasing him would cost him his life, and they seemed to agreed that SEELE would have him killed after Kaji released him. After all the events of the day, Misato went into a fit because she knew he was going to die at that point and was dreading some confirmation of thatl. She loved him, therefore she broke down when she heard the message.

Lot's of things in Eva can be taken by others in different ways though.

The last two episodes served to get in everyone's heads and go into how they each deal with each other, and how they feel they are precieved by others. It tried to get into why they are like they are, as each main character in the series is screwed up in some form or another, something that happened to them in childhood or otherwise that greatly influenced how they became later. It was primarily Shinji's self under the microscope, as he is appaerntly taught that his life is not worthless as he convinced himself he was, that his life was worth living and others could like him for himself.

Again, if Misato had killed Kaji, as pointed out on the Evaotaku page, that would have appeared in the Complementation process of the final episodes.

That's actually a good point. Something like that couldn't have been left alone during her time under the microscope if that were the case. Edited February 22, 2004 by Anubis

[Golden Arms]

Why people continue to assert that Misato Killed kanji when there is overwhelming evidence to prove otherwise boogles the mind. The RCB even states that he was killed by someone else. I guess conspiracy theorist are eva fans as well. As Anubis pointed out the entire show isn't about mecha,religion and what not, but about how people relate to one another and the relationships one makes in life.

[Memphis Egyptologist]

Golden Arms,

Well said! I always took that scene where Misato got her gun and ID back as the first step that Misato realized Kaji was a dead man in SEELE and NERV's eyes. Then, I always took the cut to Kaji as meaning it was going on at the same time Misato was getting her things back. Therefore, I found it a bit odd after I became active on the Internet that people were saying Misato killed Kaji. There wasn't enough time for Misato to track down Kaji to supposedly kill him based on the way the animation was cut together. Kaji entrusted his work to Misato, and Misato knew that the phone message meant it was up to her to use it.

[bob joe mac]

Yeah I always assumed some Intelligence SEELE dude or somebody killed Kaji.

As for the last two eps and the movies what I took from it was

1. Shinji thought his life was over because he believed that he could ONLY be a EVA oilot and now that all the angels were dead he had no purpose.

2. By having that School Alternate universe vision he determins that he can go on living his life not piloting EVAs

so all in all he determined Suicide is bad.

Now as for all the over anaylysis of what exactly did the insanly long still frame that occured in the elevator actually mean and what was the meaning of rei's third eye and why the hell the MP EVA's looked like giant tongue monsters outta a hentai I don't even mess with.

[MrDisco]

intelligence killed Kaji not Misato. In the manga, a uniformed, white-gloved individual with a different type of gun than Misato's killed Kaji. Misato loved Kaji too much to go as far as killing him. Someone else did.

i wouldnt use the manga as supporting evidence as Sadamoto has his own interpretation on events. that said i'm in the camp that doesnt believe misato killed him.

also for some reason i thought someone had Dr.Akagi killed...never considered it could be suicide.

[Memphis Egyptologist]

Sadamoto is at least following the same events but clarifying them in a more precise manner as with Kaji's death and Asuka's breakdown. Question remains is what he has planned for Rei II and Third Impact.

Dr. Akagi shot herself if I remember correctly, you hear a gunshot and then theres lots of blood.

I thought Naoko Akagi jumped and splatted herself over the Magi after her encounter with Rei (I)

Edited February 23, 2004 by Memphis Egyptologist

[Godzilla]

Ok, I watched the 2 movies and now I am really lost. So are Asuka and Shinji the only ppl left on the planet?

[Max Jenius]

Ok, I watched the 2 movies and now I am really lost. So are Asuka and Shinji the only ppl left on the planet?

everyone that wanted to come back, came back...

[Anubis]

As Rei told Shinji, everyone that wants to return will be able to return to their individual selves. Just Shinji and Asuka were the first.

[Anubis]

Sadamoto is at least following the same events but clarifying them in a more precise manner as with Kaji's death and Asuka's breakdown.  Question remains is what he has planned for Rei II and Third Impact.

Dr. Akagi shot herself if I remember correctly, you hear a gunshot and then theres lots of blood.

I thought Naoko Akagi jumped and splatted herself over the Magi after her encounter with Rei (I)

I really look forward to seeing how the manga plays out in the end. The way they've doen things so far have been great.

And yeah, after Dr. Akagi killed the 1st Rei, felt immediately guilty about it what she had done, and jumped off the edge of the deck. You can see on the edge of the computer where he head impacted, and then splattered rather messily.

Edited February 23, 2004 by Anubis

[Memphis Egyptologist]

Dang, Anubis said what I was going to say! Anyway, Shinji and Asuka came back and now have to prepare for the others who want to come back. EOE is like Natural Born Killers in that one wonders what the staff was taking when they wrote and planned the script. So much of the images are so compelling, its best to just say wow! and rewatch it a bit later.

[mbs357]

There are two movies?

Cause I watched the series and was all, "wtf?"

Then I watched End of Evangelion (the one where Shinji and Asuka are alone in that, uh, place) thinking there would finally be closure, and at hte end I was all, "wtf?"

So what's the name of the other movie?

I must check that one out as well.

[Anubis]

There are two movies?

Cause I watched the series and was all, "wtf?"

Then I watched End of Evangelion (the one where Shinji and Asuka are alone in that, uh, place) thinking there would finally be closure, and at hte end I was all, "wtf?"

So what's the name of the other movie?

I must check that one out as well.

The first movie is Death and Rebirth. You could kind of skip this one if you like, though it could serve as a decent refresher. The first part of it is an orchastrated recap of the series, with a little of the new footage from the DC embedded in there as well. Seemed to try to highlight a few points. The second part is actually the first 20-odd minutes of the actual movie, up to where the Eva-5 series arrive and circle overhead in flight, to be continued.

The End of Evangelion movie has those 20 minutes, but instead of cutting to to be continued, continues uninterrupted and finishes the story. An odd way to do it, but that's how the movies were released in Japan anyway.

Again, the Director's cut is actually very useful with the new footage, and worth a view if you haven't yet. Vol. 2 just shipped from Right Stuf for me, I'll see what was added to those when it gets here. May take a day or two to work the last two out, because in that instance I may need to sit through the original last two episodes again (or maybe watch them first). I have no clue what they would've done to the last two.

For the 21-23 new stuff I found the extra conversations quite good, Fuyuutski gets to talk to Yui some more, more Kaji time, and during Asuka's mind attack you get a better glimmer of what happened to Asuka's mother from listening to the background voices. I don't remember them specifically saying she had a contact experiment accident previously. That alone, putting two and two together, comfirms why her mother went nuts (as is you didn't guess aready), as quite literally because all her marbles were not there, some of her mind or soul was taken into Unit-02, also explaining her presense there in the movie. There was good stuff in there. I want to see what was added the the last 3 episodes.

Since the first versions are also (thankfully) on the discs I am going to give my old vol. 7 and 8 to my brother, and since he already has 1 and 2, he can get the remaining 4 discs during the next ADV sale easy enough.

Edited February 23, 2004 by Anubis

[Godzilla]

Dang, Anubis said what I was going to say! Anyway, Shinji and Asuka came back and now have to prepare for the others who want to come back. EOE is like Natural Born Killers in that one wonders what the staff was taking when they wrote and planned the script. So much of the images are so compelling, its best to just say wow! and rewatch it a bit later.

Ok,

Well, it answers a lot of my questions because after episode 24, I was like WTF?!? Yes I could have skipped the 1st movie because I was already watching everything in order. After watching the 2nd movie, it wasnt WTF, WTFHWT?! My initial impression was that only Shinji and Asuka were the only ones. I didnt know if more would come. I thought everyone who wanted to come back would come back by then. I thought Shinji and Asuka were the Adam and Eve to start mankind over. (I dont think Asuka would let him get near her but who knows... Then again Asuka is a real conceited witch. I mean duct tape comes to mind. ) If they are waiting for people to come back, they got a hell of a lot of cleaning to do.

Overall, I thought it was great till I hit DVD 6, 7, and 8. The movies made the impressions worse. I thought they could easily stopped the 3rd Impact by assassinate all the SEELE members. I mean, the 2nd Impact was the reason why they had Angels or am I totally wrong?

Oh, BTW, mankind is the 18th Angel? My buddy who loaned me the DVDs is a big fan of this and he said it was.

It is kind of erie that this uses references of the biblical nature.

[Anubis]

The thing is, in my take, Asuka actually did like Shinji, just in her normal fashion she masked it. There are several times she probes him, and tries to get him out of his shell some. She wants him to bite back and act like a man. Against the shadow angel, Shinji surprized her when he said "I'll show you how it's done", she made one comment, and then not another word. It did infuriate her later when he passed her in the synch tests, as her place as no. 1 pilot was her emotional crutch. She talked to him for a second nicely after her call from Germany, caught herself and the immediately put her mask back on. I think the kiss was kind of another "will he actually do it" kind of things from her. The pool incident was as much an attempt to flirt as also messing with him a little. As a fellow pilot Shinji was probably the only guy that had a real shot, IF he could get his act together, which he failed to do, and thus pissed her off. Shinji managed to put her off though with his sheepishness and lack of a spine. The opposite of Shinji's skulking around, she wore a mask of brazenness and superiority on top of her actual overconfidence. This is an area I look forward to seeing more in the manga as he has shown far more backbone with her already on a few occcasions already.

She even said in the movie, "if I can't have you to myself I don't want you at all." The kitchen fight they had during the 3rd impact stuff was actually very important, as their feelings actually did come out for that moment.

Rei is another topic. Suffice to say, all the positive stides she took were in no small part to Shinji's trying to reach out to her.

Take away the super angst, NERV, end of the world, the Rei= Yui/Lithith hybrid complication, and everything else, just the cores of the three characters, and you might have been able to put Rei/Shinji/Asuka in a normal triangle.

This is one area several fanfics (serious, as in non-lemon) have actually resonated dead on with IMO.

Edit: fixed some spelling.

Edited February 23, 2004 by Anubis

[Anubis]

Allright! The DC Vol. 2 arrived today. I'll give it a watch tonight. There are also more behind the scenes images from the live-action.

[CoryHolmes]

Anyway for those of us without the DC to get those live-action scenes? Hint, hint

EDIT:

Anubis hit it perfectly on the head. I agree perfectly with what he said.

Edited February 23, 2004 by CoryHolmes

[Memphis Egyptologist]

The thing is, in my take, Asuka actually did like Shinji, just in her normal fashion she maked it.

Yup, I always saw Asuka and Shinji as two mixed up people who lost their mothers and eventually would end up together. At least in the series, Shinji told Rei that she does things just as a mother would like when they were cleaning school. After he found out Rei was a clone, things changed. I think Anno said his characters essentially revolve around relationships within their hearts and the longing within their hearts for relationships. I always wonder if the scene of Asuka and Shinji in bed together in EOE where she berates his "peformance" was just part of the head trip of Third Impact or based on something else . As such, Evangelion was the first series that ever made me think about the characters and not the mecha.

[Anubis]

Anyway for those of us without the DC to get those live-action scenes? Hint, hint

EDIT:

Anubis hit it perfectly on the head. I agree perfectly with what he said.

I'll try to take some screen shots of the new pics tonight if I have a chance. I'll open up a new thread with those when I do, unless someone beats me to it.

[Anubis]

Another point towars Asuka actually liking Shinji is how much attention she actually gave him. True she was giving him a hard time, but the attention was still going to him. She didn't give anyone else the light of day. When she went on the blind date the one time, she left early and came right back home.

She was rough on him, but if she really hated him as much as she let on, she wouldn't have spoken to him at all. She was trying to get him to speak up. There were times she did not like him and really was pissed off, but deep down was another story. To Shinji's credit, good thing or bad thing, he was also the only guy who could withstand Asuka. After all she did to him he was still around (you could attribute it to his being a punching bag, but regardless he always came out unscathed). Toji and Kensuke were deathly afraid of her. Toji even called her the Demon. The "look the newleyweds are fighting" comment was perfect.

The latest volume of the manga (7) has a great scene in it. Asuka is at the train station, and off in the distance she she's Shinji and Rei at the other platform, Rei sitting on a bench, both of them chatting away. She immediately get jealous and storms off.

There's no question that Rei had developed feeling for Shinji, it obvious the way she gradually opened up more to him, she stood up on his behalf a couple of times, self destructed Unit-00 to save him at the cost of her life, and Rei-III betrayed Gendo and left the final outcome of 3rd impact everything in Shinji's hands, on what he wanted to do. The problem with Rei is because she was so unused to displaying any high emotion, or doing anything for that matter, that everything was new and foreign to her, and no one knew what was on her mind.

Asuka is more difficult to diagnose, because of the heavy mask she displays, the overbearing act she shows everyone, wheras deep down her and Shinji were actually very much alike.

[Angel's Fury]

And thus they ended up being together after the 3rd impact. Am I right Anubis?

[Anubis]

And thus they ended up being together after the 3rd impact. Am I right Anubis?

They have a few things to work out, but it's safe to say they'll end up together.

On a similar note they were the first to come back in part becaue of Rei, but also their because of the evas they were in as well.

One point of debate I wuld like to bring up that is not clear is what about Misato and Ritsuko? They were both shot before actual 3rd impact, so technically there, they should have been dead.

However, the ghost Rei (II?) that appeared before they actually died could mean they have been included after all in the "merging" as it were, and therefore could have a chance to come back as well. Also, now that I remember, you are actually shown their bodiless clothes on the ground after the impact begins, complete with the new LCL, further giving evidence to support that as well.

[Godzilla]

And thus they ended up being together after the 3rd impact. Am I right Anubis?

They have a few things to work out, but it's safe to say they'll end up together.

On a similar note they were the first to come back in part becaue of Rei, but also their because of the evas they were in as well.

One point of debate I wuld like to bring up that is not clear is what about Misato and Ritsuko? They were both shot before actual 3rd impact, so technically there, they should have been dead.

However, the ghost Rei (II?) that appeared before they actually died could mean they have been included after all in the "merging" as it were, and therefore could have a chance to come back as well. Also, now that I remember, you are actually shown their bodiless clothes on the ground after the impact begins, complete with the new LCL, further giving evidence to support that as well.

Actually that was my next question that was on my mind. Also, what is this deal on the figure of Asuka and Rie? I see these characters in Wedding dresses and bath? I see the figures that my friend has of Asuka and Rei in their suits but that seems more logical to me.

[Anubis]

Actually that was my next question that was on my mind.  Also, what is this deal on the figure of Asuka and Rie?  I see these characters in Wedding dresses and bath? I see the figures that my friend has of Asuka and Rei in their suits but that seems more logical to me.

If I'm not mistaken some of these figures are from art books. The think I was the wedding dress figures in an artbook before along with some of the other figures that have been trickling out. There are gym figures of those two plus Hikari and others, there are pajami Rei and Asuka figures too. They seem to be pushing the market again pretty heavily. There have been lots of new resin statues too I know have been in various art pieces. Not to mention the new Chogokin evas and other figures. It's a good time to be an Eva fan again.

What surprizes me though is there is not NEARLY as much Misato stuff.

This group needs a good Misato I'd consider a resin even but I haven't seen any reasonably priced completed ones. I also have Kaiyodo's plug suit Rei and Askua put away.

Edited February 24, 2004 by Anubis

[Memphis Egyptologist]

There's no question that Rei had developed feeling for Shinji, it obvious the way she gradually opened up more to him, she stood up on his behalf a couple of times, self destructed Unit-00 to save him at the cost of her life, and Rei-III betrayed Gendo and left the final outcome of 3rd impact everything in Shinji's hands, on what he wanted to do.  The problem with Rei is because she was so unused to displaying any high emotion, or doing anything for that matter, that everything was new and foreign to her, and no one knew what was on her mind.

I just wonder, if given more time would the TV series writers have given more feelings to Rei (II-III)? She did save Shinji, but the last vision in her mind was Gendo. In the manga, Asuka teases Shinji about being attracted to Rei, and he states that its not a feeling of like but that it is a feeling similar to some part of him that had been taken away. Once one considers who and what Rei is, Asuka is the only one to turn to unless Shinji goes both ways .

[Max Jenius]

Mmm... Asuka... I'd love to break down those barriers. lol

I knew a girl kinda like her in HS, she hates me because I make sure that she knows that she sucks.

[Anubis]

I just wonder, if given more time would the TV series writers have given more feelings to Rei (II-III)?  She did save Shinji, but the last vision in her mind was Gendo.  In the manga, Asuka teases Shinji about being attracted to Rei, and he states that its not a feeling of like but that it is a feeling similar to some part of him that had been taken away.  Once one considers who and what Rei is, Asuka is the only one to turn to unless Shinji goes both ways .

Shinji was never meant to be with Rei. They got close, may have devoloped some feelings for each other, but once the facts were discovered and laid out there was no way Shinji and Rei could have that kind of relationship. They were inching in that direction though, at a minimum becoming actual friends, which was another thing that severely pissed Asuka off. That the puppet could potentially take the Shinji she had been putting effort into away was a blow to her. It started back when Asuka moved into the apartment to do the synch training with Shinji, and he synched up perfectly with Rei right off the bat after having a tough time with her. She immediately saw competition.

This was the argument Asuka made in the Kitchen during EoE. Shinji had been getting closer to Rei, but as soon as Ritsuko took Shinji and Misato to the lab and they learned what Rei was, he had no idea how to speak to her anymore.

Asuka told Shinji he was afraid of Ayanami, afraid of Misato because of her stake in everything, so all that was left was Asuka for him to turn to, and she knew it and resented him for it. If that stuff had not happened, Shinji may well had been spending more time with Rei than her. She thought Shinji said he wanted to be with her simply because there was no one else for him to cling to.

Rei had already been developing her feelings, even if she did not express it that much, and had the show continued on she very likely would have displayed more. Hopefully Asuka might have calmed down some. They really were polar opposites in several areas, and made for some interesting moments.

Edit in: Damn I've been typing a novel today

Edited February 24, 2004 by Anubis

[Anubis]

Mmm... Asuka... I'd love to break down those barriers. lol

I knew a girl kinda like her in HS, she hates me because I make sure that she knows that she sucks.

Literally?