Thoughts on Macross II

[VF-15 Banshee]

Just watched episode 1 of Macross II and... holy fragging, smegging, fraking, CRAP! That was almost physically painful to watch!!! Not because of bad animation or anything but the english voice actors! That was HORRIBLE! I've SciFi Channel movies that have better acting than that.

I really hope the dub of Macross Plus is better.

Other than that, it seems fairly interesting.

[Seto Kaiba]

Just watched episode 1 of Macross II and... holy fragging, smegging, fraking, CRAP! That was almost physically painful to watch!!! Not because of bad animation or anything but the english voice actors! That was HORRIBLE!

Sorry you had to endure that... the voice acting in the english dub of Macross II: Lovers Again is absolutely freaking terrible. There's really no denying that. Macross II's english dub track is a relic of the early days of (mostly) faithful dubbing, so it was passable back when it first came out but generally hasn't aged well. I strongly recommend you watch that one in subs with the original Japanese audio tracks... though I'd say the same for the ADV dub of the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross, which is somehow even worse for being godawful despite having an all-star english VA cast.

I really hope the dub of Macross Plus is better.

Meh... IMO, subs are the way to go with that one too.

[Keith]

You only have yourself to blame for watching bad dubs.

[anime52k8]

I've always thought the Macross plus dub was fine.

[Robelwell202]

I've always thought the Macross plus dub was fine.

Same here. Aside from a slight mis-casting for Yan Newman, and the slight dialogue glitch when the commander's giving the speech about each plane (when he mis-speak's the name of the plane's producer), I found it to be excellent.

[MadCatChiken]

I thought Dyson's English voice actor was brilliant, I've yet to watch it in Japanese though. MII's english dub was pretty bad, I prefer Japanese VA because it tends to be better than English VA.

[Shaorin]

this provides a good venue in which for me to finally get around to asking, i think;

why is there so much general fan apathy towards MACROSS II, anyway?

yes, the English dub is BAD, but that cannot be the only, or even primary reason

why this entry in the MACROSS series has long been generally considered as the Ugly Duckling, can it?

Edited September 4, 2011 by Shaorin

[VF5SS]

Because II commits the ultimate sin of not being really good or really bad, it's just mediocre.

[frothymug]

I thought Dyson's English voice actor was brilliant, I've yet to watch it in Japanese though. MII's english dub was pretty bad, I prefer Japanese VA because it tends to be better than English VA.

He's brilliant because he's Bryan Cranston, also known as Hal from Malcolm in the Middle. He's also the main character of Breaking Bad (I haven't watched much of the show and can't remember the character's name), a role which he's sooo good at, he's won several awards. From what I've seen of that show, he's an absolute badass.

Same here. Aside from a slight mis-casting for Yan Newman, and the slight dialogue glitch when the commander's giving the speech about each plane (when he mis-speak's the name of the plane's producer), I found it to be excellent.

If I remember correctly, that's Dan Woren, the guy who voiced Roy in Robotech. Agreed... he just doesn't fit the role very well.

As far as Macross II goes, I also agree that you should watch it with Japanese audio and English subs. The story is fairly entertaining, but definitely not as strong as the best Macross works. It's worth watching.

Woot, my 500th post!

[sketchley]

this provides a good venue in which for me to finally get around to asking, i think;

why is there so much general fan apathy towards MACROSS II, anyway?

yes, the English dub is BAD, but that cannot be the only, or even primary reason

why this entry in the MACROSS series has long been generally considered as the Ugly Duckling, can it?

I don't speak for anyone but myself herein:

Macross II has it's good points and bad points (don't feel like making a list, but one of the good things is an unanticipated use of the wrecked Zentraadi ships). But, it's biggest flaw is that, ultimately, it's just a retelling of DYRL with a reporter protagonist who really shouldn't be the main character and doing the things he does.

In the end, aside from a plot and plotting slightly on the "could've been better" side, if the show had spent more time invested in its characters (both pre-production development and in-story character development), it could've been better (Ie start by making the main protagonist a combat pilot, and not a reporter in a Valkyrie.)

[jenius]

I hit the + icon for Sketchley's comment as I concur completely. Not an original enough sequence of events and poor decisions relating to the characters. On a separate level, the English dub is DREADFUL, Macross Plus is many times better.

EDIT - while some of the MACII designs appeal to me more than others, I am bummed there aren't quality toys for many of them.

Edited September 4, 2011 by jenius

[VF5SS]

i reviewed the model

watch it fall apart in the video lol

[JB0]

But I think we can all agree that Mac2 needed more of Ishtar in that singer outfit.

[Keith]

Definately coulda used more Ishtar, and more budget. I've said it before, and I'll say it again though, Frontier definately softened my hate for Macross II.

[Roy Focker]

Macross II wasn't that bad but there is no excuse for the poor quality of animation in the last episode.

[EXO]

Bryan Cranston... Walter White in Breaking Bad is Isamu Dyson... that's enough to give Macross Plus dub a passing grade!

[nexxstrait]

(Ie start by making the main protagonist a combat pilot, and not a reporter in a Valkyrie.)

Why? Sylvie is a combat pilot and she is the protagonist of MII along with Ibiki and Ishtar. Where's the problem?

I see the parallels with DYRL, but it's far from a retelling with different names.

Anyway, I personally found M II extremely entartaining and the mecha gorgeous.

Sadly, it's true the first half of the last episode has indeed a rather remarkable drop in visual quality

[VF5SS]

Why? Sylvie is a combat pilot and she is the protagonist of MII along with Ibiki and Ishtar. Where's the problem?

Because in order to have Sylvie interact with two characters who are non-combatants that means she can't do cool robot things. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but who does cool robot stuff other than Nexx (and I guess Feff)?

I see the parallels with DYRL, but it's far from a retelling with different names.

No they just decided to copy the love story from Roman Holiday

[Thom]

Yes, the dubbed version was horrendous. I can never get past ANY anime - so far - that doesn't sound like a kid's Saturday morning cartoon when it's been dubbed. Like Scooby Do...

I stick with subtitled now, and the longer I watch that way the easier it is to read and watch the action at the same time.

Macross II has its lows and highs, but I generally enjoy it, and take it like it is. The red-headed stepchild from a rather blue-blood family.

[sketchley]

Because in order to have Sylvie interact with two characters who are non-combatants that means she can't do cool robot things. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but who does cool robot stuff other than Nexx (and I guess Feff)?

This.

[VF-15 Banshee]

Well I finally finished Mac2 and... well I'll get to that when I post it on my blog. One thing for right now: Did Nexx's VA completely change in episodes 5 and 6? And why didn't Hibiki end up with Ishtar? Hibiki ending up with Sylvie is a bit like Shiroh Amada ending up with Aina in Gundam 08th MS Team: rushed.

[frothymug]

Well I finally finished Mac2 and... well I'll get to that when I post it on my blog. One thing for right now: Did Nexx's VA completely change in episodes 5 and 6? And why didn't Hibiki end up with Ishtar? Hibiki ending up with Sylvie is a bit like Shiroh Amada ending up with Aina in Gundam 08th MS Team: rushed.

Because Feff was in love with Ishtar and probably would have ripped off Hibiki's head if he had a problem with it. Even though it's in English, I love his line, "No one will know of my failure; that I dared to love above my station."

[Jasonc]

I never thought it was that bad, with the exception of the voice actors. As a standalone, it's decent. I actually think it's quite fun to watch, especially if you're gonna drink. Get a slight buzz on, and mimic the voice actors. Good times.

[VF-15 Banshee]

I never thought it was that bad, with the exception of the voice actors. As a standalone, it's decent. I actually think it's quite fun to watch, especially if you're gonna drink. Get a slight buzz on, and mimic the voice actors. Good times.

Ugh, you don't know the meaning of the word culture...

Because Feff was in love with Ishtar and probably would have ripped off Hibiki's head if he had a problem with it.

This could have used expanding too.

[Seto Kaiba]

why is there so much general fan apathy towards MACROSS II, anyway?

Good question... you'll get as many answers as there are people answering, but most of them boil down to some permutation on the theme of "because Kawamori wasn't involved" or, as VF5SS put it, "because it was only average". Macross is a series that has built itself up on a run of exceptional shows, so Macross II criticized more than a stand-alone show of the same quality because it isn't just the one average show in a run of excellence... it's an average show that's trying to follow on from DYRL, one of the most exceptional Macross titles.

Well I finally finished Mac2 and... well I'll get to that when I post it on my blog. One thing for right now: Did Nexx's VA completely change in episodes 5 and 6? And why didn't Hibiki end up with Ishtar? Hibiki ending up with Sylvie is a bit like Shiroh Amada ending up with Aina in Gundam 08th MS Team: rushed.

Nope, I believe it's Bin Shimada or Steve Blum all the way through for Nexx Gilbert.

Hibiki ended up with Sylvie because, as they correspond to the original love triangle... Hibiki = Hikaru, Sylvie = Misa, Ishtar = Minmay.

[nexxstrait]

Because in order to have Sylvie interact with two characters who are non-combatants that means she can't do cool robot things. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly, but who does cool robot stuff other than Nexx (and I guess Feff)?

This.

Nexx is super cool and has one of the best solo action of Macross history (plus, he gets to command a Cannon!), but don't forget that Sylvie singlehandedly infiltrated the Mardook armada and was able to escape with one hell of a stunt and a whole ship complement of enemy mecha at her heels.

Plus, don't forget that the cool action sequences are almost always performed by secondary characters:

Macross TV: Max & Milia

DYRL: Max & Milia

7: Max (wow, a stunning record)

Dynamite: Gamlin

0: Roy

Frontier TV: Ozma, Brera, Canaria, Bobby (quite a good choice of coolest mecha action by secondary characters here)

Again: I don't see the problem of having Sylvie as the main combat character. I hope your dislike doesn't come from the fact that it's (for a change) a woman filling the role.

Edited September 5, 2011 by nexxstrait

[sketchley]

I hope your dislike doesn't come from the fact that it's (for a change) a woman filling the role.

Who said anything about disliking Silvi? It's Hibiki. As a REPORTER. Doing illogical stuff for his occupation.

Silvi gets the short stick because the script requires her to. I'm sure with a different main protagonist, she would've ended up doing a lot more cool stuff.

Edited September 5, 2011 by sketchley

[nexxstrait]

Who said anything about disliking Silvi? It's Hibiki. As a REPORTER. Doing illogical stuff for his occupation.

Silvi gets the short stick because the script requires her to. I'm sure with a different main protagonist, she would've ended up doing a lot more cool stuff.

I think she has her cool moments, but ok, that you don't like him as he is written I can understand (even if I personally liked the fact that he was a reporter and a civilian, for a change).

[VF5SS]

Plus, don't forget that the cool action sequences are almost always performed by secondary characters:

Yeah but all those secondary characters you listed have the advantage of having actual personality traits. I'm struggling to remember any of Nexx's dialogue. And you can certainly have cool robot action, but to get the audience to care about the robot action (and by extension the robots themselves), the people inside the robots need to be people you care about.

Again: I don't see the problem of having Sylvie as the main combat character. I hope your dislike doesn't come from the fact that it's (for a change) a woman filling the role.

Change is a funny thing. It jingles around in your pocket while you're walking and you never seem to have enough for the toll booth.

But yeah, the change in Macross II is just not well done.

[MadCatChiken]

He's brilliant because he's Bryan Cranston, also known as Hal from Malcolm in the Middle. He's also the main character of Breaking Bad (I haven't watched much of the show and can't remember the character's name), a role which he's sooo good at, he's won several awards. From what I've seen of that show, he's an absolute badass.

Oh snap, I thought I recognised his voice. ^^

Edited September 5, 2011 by MadCatChiken

[Gian]

I liked Ishtar, the Gilgamesh's and the VF-2 and that was more like it...

I wish they created something similar to the story between Hibiki and Ishtar with Max and Miria. They just met and were soon married :/

[valkyrie312]

I wasn't a huge fan of the Macross II anime, but I love the mecha. The VF-2SS and VF-2JA really need to be released by someone (ahem, Yamato).

[Jasonc]

"Why don't you open your eyes and take a good look. You think Earth has the best culture? B.S. You don't even know the meaning of culture!" Or something like that.

[VF-15 Banshee]

Nope, I believe it's Bin Shimada or Steve Blum all the way through for Nexx Gilbert.

Hibiki ended up with Sylvie because, as they correspond to the original love triangle... Hibiki = Hikaru, Sylvie = Misa, Ishtar = Minmay.

1. It's gotta be the first guy. There is NO WAY that was Steve Blum. I've heard him enough that i'd recognize his voice.

2. That's the problem! Let's have a little variety here.

In any case, it was good to see the Macross flying again. I kind of didn't like it getting blown to smeg but it's very much like the death of the Enterprise 1701 in Star Trek III. At least she went out in a blaze of glory and then flew again in Plus.

[VF-15 Banshee]

Sorry to double post but I just finished my review of Macross II on my blog. You can check it out here.

A little preview: Thing is, it would have more impact if you understood more of why Feff is in love with Ishtar, beyond, you know, the fact that she has a penchant for wearing a partly transparent swimsuit-like getup.