A valkyrie paint, should be opaque or should gloss????

[akt_m]

The valks aren't grey, they are usually white coloured, just like commercial airplanes. But commercial airplanes have a shiny painting.

There are the military planes that are grey but are opaque, so how the valk is supposed to be????

[SchizophrenicMC]

The valks aren't grey, they are usually white coloured, just like commercial airplanes. But commercial airplanes have a shiny painting.

There are the military planes that are grey but are opaque, so how the valk is supposed to be????

Go for... Gunship Grey. You can NEVER go wrong with Gunship Grey.

If you want white, find a non-gloss white.

[akt_m]

Whoever moved I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE MODEL KITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is for a 3d model!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Noyhauser]

Seriously, calm down. Nobody is going to want to help you if you scream at them when they are trying to help and your post is in model kits.

I think it really depends. Modern fighter aircraft have a matte or dullcoat finish; having a shiny exterior defeats the purpose of camoflauge. However many valks don't have any camouflage so I'd assume they might have a smoother finish, as this would aid in performance and ease of maintenance.

[akt_m]

Sorry, it is just that i posted at another place, then my post got moved to here.

Thank you for your answer.

Edited April 28, 2009 by akt_m

[Kylwell]

I usually go for a semi-gloss finish. Matte also works.

[David Hingtgen]

IMHO this should go in the "movies and TV" forum as it refers to the actual valks, but I don't know where it was to start with.

Anyways---few valks are *white*, most are very pale grey. Most pale grey military stuff is flat. But if you go for airliners, their pale grey areas are always glossed.

Now, on military planes, white is always gloss---never seen flat white on a military plane.

[regult]

Metal is still metal (assuming VF are made of some kind of overtechnology metal) so they still reflect light, even if they're covered in dull/flat paint....in a 3D model, probably you have to find a good balance between weathered (using bitmaps as "skin" with weathering painted in) and some kind of semi-reflective surface instead of just assigning colors to the surface of the CGI.

FSX did a good job with some of the stock aircraft (yes, they're civilian) in that matter, they look dull but when sun is reflected there is some kind of sheen to it.

Look at pictures of contemporary fighter planes in low vis (gray) paints, they still reflect sunlight at some angles and the paint is definitely dull, not glossy like commercial aircraft. David is right about white paint though, especially US Navy 70's liveries, and the "Skull Squad" pretty much takes it from Jolly Rogers (VF-84?) F-14's, still, when in active service, the gloss usually wears out quickly!

And the most important thing: that VF-25 CGI you have there is amazing, can we have a look with higher res? the transformation looks accurate and so the proportions!!

[Kylwell]

Metal is still metal (assuming VF are made of some kind of overtechnology metal) so they still reflect light, even if they're covered in dull/flat paint....in a 3D model, probably you have to find a good balance between weathered (using bitmaps as "skin" with weathering painted in) and some kind of semi-reflective surface instead of just assigning colors to the surface of the CGI.

FSX did a good job with some of the stock aircraft (yes, they're civilian) in that matter, they look dull but when sun is reflected there is some kind of sheen to it.

Look at pictures of contemporary fighter planes in low vis (gray) paints, they still reflect sunlight at some angles and the paint is definitely dull, not glossy like commercial aircraft. David is right about white paint though, especially US Navy 70's liveries, and the "Skull Squad" pretty much takes it from Jolly Rogers (VF-84?) F-14's, still, when in active service, the gloss usually wears out quickly!

And the most important thing: that VF-25 CGI you have there is amazing, can we have a look with higher res? the transformation looks accurate and so the proportions!!

Since when does matte or flat paint not reflect light?

[regult]

Since when does matte or flat paint not reflect light?

Duh! even the moon reflects light!

You do realize I am talking about paints that are supposed to be dull but under certain circumstances are quite glossy?

I collect mainly military diecast models, and diecast models hardly get that aspect of real-life aircraft done: DULL is really "coarse" and very "flat", while GLOSSY is like nail polish, but matte-flat-dull grey on modern fighters do look shiny at some angles under the sun.

To the point: the fun of making CGI models is probably (I don't have the skills) the capability of achieving a more realistic effect.

[Omega One]

To everyone:

Real combat aircrafts are matt, flat or dull whe they are recently painted, after some time, the paint becomes satin in most parts of plane because of air+dust friction. You can check this by looking pics of the same at different anlges.

Real US Navy planes used to be painted gloss or satin due to a matter of protection for corrosion, untill TPS (tactical paint scheme) was a standar to the fleet, wich is flat under FS codes, but then again, take a look a at a F-14 or F-18 and you`ll see that some parts are satin or even gloss depending on light exposion.

ahhh.....BTW in space there is no air..... so no fiction unless you go into earth atmosfere.

Regards

Andrés

[regult]

Gracias Andrés, esta explicación es mucho más clara que la mía...

I've been on board USS Kittyhawk before she was decommissioned and I observed the phenomenon you described. Unfortunately diecast models hardly recreate that, and plastic modellers also tend to use very matte paint and weathering.

Back to Valk aesthetics: the 1/144 Doyusha diecast models were painted in high-gloss paint and they look horrible. Most Sci-fi modellers use matte finishing instead, maybe nothing above semi-gloss unless you like Valks to look like sports cars.

To akt_m:

I don't know how to make CGI models, but in Flight Simulator X, the CG models can have reflective surfaces of different qualities (simulating glass, polished metal and painted surfaces that react only when "sunlight" is at the right angles), so I guess you may be able to achieve the same effect with your CGI Valks.

(edit: deleted quote of previous post to save scroll space)

Edited April 30, 2009 by regult

[Kylwell]

Duh! even the moon reflects light!

You do realize I am talking about paints that are supposed to be dull but under certain circumstances are quite glossy?

I collect mainly military diecast models, and diecast models hardly get that aspect of real-life aircraft done: DULL is really "coarse" and very "flat", while GLOSSY is like nail polish, but matte-flat-dull grey on modern fighters do look shiny at some angles under the sun.

To the point: the fun of making CGI models is probably (I don't have the skills) the capability of achieving a more realistic effect.

But your statement makes it sounds like the reason light reflects off of matte paint is due to the underlying metal.

[akt_m]

IMHO this should go in the "movies and TV" forum as it refers to the actual valks, but I don't know where it was to start with.

Anyways---few valks are *white*, most are very pale grey. Most pale grey military stuff is flat. But if you go for airliners, their pale grey areas are always glossed.

Now, on military planes, white is always gloss---never seen flat white on a military plane.

I posted originally at the "movies and TV" forum.

Thx for all the help everybody!!!

[SchizophrenicMC]

Okay, if it's for a model, go with a flatter color. Don't gloss it. Gloss is bad for camouflage purposes, the whole reason fighters are painted the way they are. It just makes it harder to see. If it's shiny, it sticks out.

And why not build models?

[edwin3060]

On the other hand, the YF-19 is high gloss-- even mirror-like-- as evidenced by Isamu looking at his own reflection

[captain america]

On the other hand, the YF-19 is high gloss-- even mirror-like-- as evidenced by Isamu looking at his own reflection

The YF-19 wasn't an in-service fighter, it was a prototype. Lots of experimental or prototype aircraft have semi-gloss or full-on gloss paint schemes.

As mentioned above, most military aircraft start out in matt or satin finish, and end up a tad shinier in ceratain areas as a result of friction with the air, and also due to maintenance & cleaning. You can test this yourself by spraying a sheet of plastic or metal with a matt paint, and then just by rubbing it a few times with a cloth, you end up burnishing it. If you do that often enough, you can start to get quite a shine going. On a real fighter, it creates quite a visually-interesting texture/patina.

So to answer the question of what kind of finish these aircraft have, I would say that it's generally matt, but with certain areas being almost semi-gloss, like the leading edges of wings and parts of the aircraft that are accessed/walked on frequently for maintenance.

[David Hingtgen]

IMHO, very few "flat" model paints are truly flat. Almost all have some gloss. Some more than others. Gunship grey is among the "glossiest" flat paints. If you want DEAD flat, you need Floquil or Pollyscale model railroad paint--most of that stuff is so dead flat it's scary.

So in short---just use "flat" paint. It won't be totally flat, and will have just enough shine IMHO to replicate the slight sheen on most stuff.

[SchizophrenicMC]

IMHO, very few "flat" model paints are truly flat. Almost all have some gloss. Some more than others. Gunship grey is among the "glossiest" flat paints. If you want DEAD flat, you need Floquil or Pollyscale model railroad paint--most of that stuff is so dead flat it's scary.

So in short---just use "flat" paint. It won't be totally flat, and will have just enough shine IMHO to replicate the slight sheen on most stuff.

According to akt_m, it's not actual paint, but for a 3D model he's making. Apologies if I misunderstand that, but if that's the case, it's misnamed.

Either way, Dave's pretty right. If you want a flat-painted model, go for one of those.

If you want model-flat, go for Testor's Flat Gunship Grey or the Tamiya equivalent.