Hiroshi Ohnogi and Macross Frontier

[Final Vegeta]

This could belong to the series discussion thread, but it's mastodontic and would engulf it, so I thought it was better to post it in a separate thread. I know its contents are polemic, but it's something that caused me serious concern. I will post here an interview with Ohnogi, then in the next post I will write the painful reflections it caused me.

I found this interview on the blog whataboutmystar, taken from the forum animesuki, taken from the forum Macross Generation, taken from its user Shaloom, likely taken from a Japanese radio program, taken from the original staff of Macross Frontier. But it's Shaloom who brought it out of Japan to us and the rest of the Western world

The inclusion of Hiroshi Ohnogi to the staff of Macross Frontier caused furor in various Japanese forums, and actor Kenta Miyake (Bobby Margo) has invited him to the Macross Radio program for an interview. The program was broadcast on the Radio MBS, August 9, 2008.

This interview covered various subjects, his career, what he was doing before entering Macross Frontier and what their plans were in the series. Here is the extract referent to Macross Frontier:

(Note that the actor Kenta Miyake personifies Bobby Margo in his program, so understand this interview as "Bobby Margo" interviewing Hiroshi Ohnogi .)

Bobby: Well, Hiroshi-kun, now you were listed as a writer of Macross Frontier. I wonder if you will make Ranka and I rule the galaxy...

Hiroshi Ohnogi: (Laughs) Believe me, the director had asked me to, but honestly, I do not feel able to do so.

B: But why? I don't bite, believe me. I'm sexier than any star.

HO: You can say I have another plan in mind.

B: Tell us! I'm eager to know what will happen ... Are you going to move the ship to a dark place in the universe where Ozma and I can be alone?

HO: Rather, I want this great story become epic, and there are many people who are going to change. Others may be dying and others will have a confirmation in their motivations. The series is going through a good moment but I think the fans now have more questions than answers. Where to go? Why is my favorite character not evolving? Who is behind all this? Now is a good time for Frontier to expand the story and find new faces.

B: Exactly who do you think?

HO: Well, I convinced Kawamori to let me do a Macross Frontier epic. His series has everything but that and Macross has always been epic. That's why I came.

B: What motivated you to call Kawamori-sama and ask that you want to work with us?

HO: In fact it was the opposite; in the episode Mother's Lullaby, I saw Kawamori put some tributes to the novels of Macross TV Series writted in 1983. I invited him to my house for dinner and during that time, Kawamori talked about Frontier's history and what we wanted to do. Then he asked for my opinion, and I told him that, as he had planned the story and the changes he had made, the series had lost their way.

B: Kawamori-sama lost direction? Has Macross Frontier made many changes?

HO: That's very common in a TV series. This relates to how the market is reacting and the popularity polls of the characters that make the magazines every month. In these surveys, directors and writers see an idea of how history is acting in the public and we can correct or improve the series to gain a wider audience.

B: I'm surprised that Kawamori-sama accepted that it had lost its way.

HO: Well, that was my opinion; perhaps to other writers, everything went perfect. But Kawamori believed in me and asked me to help him. I immediately felt like I returned back in time, to 1982 when we began to write the ending of Macross TV Series.

B: What aspect in the series motivates you to accept Kawamori-sama's invitation?

HO: In order of importance?

B: Yes, please! Do you have a list of top-ten beauties? Tell me that was me!

HO: (laughs) I have to accept that I love your afro hairstyle, I would have to be reborn to have a hair like that. But no, you were not a reason.

B: So who or whom?

HO: For reason number 1: Sheryl Nome. In "Star Date" I loved that character. When I saw the episode in the morning, I told my wife, it was like watching a sleeping lion and was only woken up to hunt in a spectacular way, and then went back to sleep. That is, in previous episodes, you see a common J-Pop diva. That means she obeys to an image and her attitude should reflect that image, but we see a charming woman in Star Date, who puts her foot to a boy and makes fun of him, who hides his amulet, who hunt butterflies like any woman of her age, who feels wonderful with the simple things such as the blue sky, the viewpoints, and who likes to be treated as a normal girl. It matters little what you think by not suppressing her desire to write. As a writer, sometimes we have such reactions, looking for anything to show our art and what she does as an artist really does.

B: I think that's the episode where the Sheryl fans appear.

HO: I would not call myself a Sheryl fan but I saw a diamond in the rough screaming to give it a personality and I will do. Sheryl has many facets that have been somewhat misunderstood. In Macross, to be a legend, there are multiple processes and one of them is humility, something that Sheryl does not have at this time. We'll see until where it can take up and of course she endure it. The diamond bears great pressure before it turns beautiful; we'll see if this is the case.

B Who else got your attention?

HO: Grace O'Connor. In fact I have big surprises for her. You could not imagine the character that she can become. Macross generally know little of idols "managers". This case is very different, Grace will offer a lot to talk about. Saotome Alto is also a rare and unique character. While I am not very sure of his convictions to make sacrifices, I think he can make things interesting.

B: Grace? But she is thin and these lenses do not turn on to anyone! And ranka-chan? (so annoying) TELL ME RANKA-CHAN CAUGHT YOUR ATTENTION TOO!

HO: (laughs) Also I can not deny that I have much of my attention on Ranka Lee. Although, unfortunately, she carries a heavy burden of being the child spoiled by the director. The other day, I told Kawamori that he was an irresponsible father because Ranka was very pampered. Not even Minmay had been so pampered, and she was the favorite of the staff. Ranka has enormous potential, but history has led her to a stereotype, so instead of support, she has become a dramatic burden on the story of Frontier. I want to reverse that. How? I do not know. I am still thinking.

B: Ranka-chan is a legend too.

HO: She is a diamond in the rough but who had put on a collar already. It's like being the daughter of a famous artist on stage and people expect the best of everything from you, perfection, the best songs, best choreographies. Ranka was indeed one of the reasons why I told Kawamori his script had lost its way. Ranka is more than an idol, but the problem is that her own creator did not intend to make her grow out more than the stereotype of an idol. Ranka is nothing without a microphone. In Macross, there is no idol that could become useless without the microphone. And Ranka is no exception. For that I am here.

B: What do you think of ranka-chan?

HO: I have great ideas with her past, she has a past that is very painful to show with the character she currently possess. That past defines the personality without a microphone in the middle. The series itself is about that past and she will have to confront and assimilate it. I hope that defines Ranka and the series.

B: What do you think of the love triangle?

HO: The triangle has been defined little by the lack of decision of the director. But I hope that I can define it with the few episodes that are left. At least I have the permission by Kawamori to have total control over the matter.

B: I heard you had a very long meeting with Kawamori-sama about the opening.

HO: Kawamori told me that episode 18 would be completely done with my script. This episode had also been scheduled for the premiere of the new opening, strangely named "Lion". Do I mentioned that is how I think of Sheryl? Mrs Yoko Kanno and I had worked in Macross Plus so Kawamori and I joined immediately to work the opening concept. Kawamori wanted to send a "preview" to what they will see in subsequent episodes. There is a lot of symbolism of what will happen, so do not miss it and be observers.

B: What can we hope now in Macross Frontier?

HO: Drama, romance, an epic story, great dialogue, memorable scenes. What is really a Macross, I hope you like my work.

B: Thank you, Ohnogi-san.

Edited March 6, 2009 by Final Vegeta

[Final Vegeta]

OK, here is now my rant. English is not my mothertongue, but I will try my best.

First of all, a bit of history as I was able to collect it.

Sheryl was indeed supposed to disappear from the scene in the earlier episodes. I think Kawamori still planned her to return after a while, because the rivalry with the VF-27 involved Galaxy, so there was the need for some people to represent it.

Because fans like her though she was kept, if only for a while. In exchange we got a lousy animated episode 6 (because there were last minute changes) and three standalone episodes after episode 7, which instead is the kind of episode Kawamori already planned from the start. Episode 8-9-10 gave time to the staff to think how to include Sheryl for a while. Best of all, maybe she was already planned to return in episode 12, while until that there was a story arc based on the mysterious VF-27. You know, you cannot change too much a carefully planned story, or you won't know how to continue. I am sure episode 12 was another episode Kawamori planned to do from the start, since it is based on a homage to older series; also the appearance of a Macross class ship was the kind of thing you think first when brainstorming.

Then Kawamori made in ep. 14 a reference to Ohnogi's love story with his wife. Ohnogi was impressed, as you read above, and called Kawamori for dinner. There Kawamori made what could be the mistake to tell him what he was going to do with the show.

Now, Sheryl was Ohnogi's favourite character; he denies being her fan only not to admit to being biased toward her. You know, his wife was interested in him and approached him. Ohnogi reacted and married her; maybe he would have died virgin if a girl didn't approach him first and he didn't secure her as soon as possible. That's the reason why Ohnogi liked Sheryl in episode 5 when she flirted openly with Alto, it remembered him his wife. "She was like a lion", that is, a man-eater. Imagine his face when he was told Sheryl was gonna die in the next episodes and Alto was gonna end up with Ranka in the end. He didn't like it so much he convinced Kawamori to let him in. A fan that knows the director is like a computer programmer with a screwdriver.

Starting with episode 16 and then fully be on charge with episode 18 Ohnogi changed to story to include Sheryl. I suppose episode 17 was another episode planned from the start, but it was originally placed as episode 18 because Pineapple Salad was episode 18, so that symbolism would have been maximum; I think that episode was anticipated to give Ohnogi more room for Sheryl. Now, how did the show handle a second unplanned injection of Sheryl? That's what I am gonna tell you.

First of all, Ohnogi said in the interview above that he was gonna give a special treatment to Grace, "big surprises". Fact is that if we take the story as of episode 15, that is what Kawamori made, Grace was already planned to be a spy of Galaxy. Also in the episode 15 there is a mention of her living in the Global, possibly alluding to her relationship with the mother of Ranka. Grace was also already known to be a person who acts nicely in front of other persons she is gonna kill. So, what did Ohnogi changed or add? Nothing I can see.

Brera underwent slightly bigger changes though. First of all, Kawamori planned to give Alto a rival. A serious rival, one who used his cybernetic advantages without shame, and got a state-of-the-art Valkyrie. And you know what? He was even a love rival for the affection of Ranka. Alto-Ranka-Brera was supposed to be the true love triangle of Macross Frontier. It was like Macross Plus Plus if you think about it. Beside that, Brera was the character that linked Alto to the bigger picture, the Galaxy conspiracy, and made it personal, so he was fundamental to escalate the climax and make things epic.

What did Ohnogi do to Brera? Well, Ohnogi didn't like Alto fighting with Brera because he understood istantly it was metaphorically a battle over the heart of Ranka, and he didn't want Alto to partecipate in. Therefore the grudge against the mysterious VF was cancelled out of the story. He wrote Alto to quiet it out abruptly the moment he was fully in charge, which is episode 18. No more VF-25 VS VF-27 until the end. Take this, mecha fans.

I think that in episode 21 there was supposed to be another big battle, like in episode 7 or 14. You see Brera calling his VF in the previous episode, this is a great prelude. Then nothing happens. Due to the changes made by Ohnogi to give enough room to Sheryl there was even a need to rush events. I also think that Klan was supposed to use the weapon found in episode 4 instead of the wacky FAST Pack Klan that was a lame excuse for not having a VF-27 slashing Vajra left and right. Brera never became a major character in the end, and lost even his slightly sadistic vibe.

By the way, maybe the scene originally planned was having Alto creating the heart in the sky with smoke trails, and then Brera intervening with the remoted controlled VF-27 to ruin his work and managing to impress people and Ranka more. That would have been a great scene. It would also explain why Alto send that message if what he was doing was trying to cheer Sheryl up. If Alto was honestly trying to impress Ranka, and only Ranka, it would all have made sense. And every time he tried to do that Brera came and showed off, ruining everything and frustrating Alto. It would have been so funny.

Alto. Well, Alto was obviously supposed to have some kind of chara development. He was supposed to show he was the main star of the show after all. I think in the original planning the fight between him and Brera was to become a giant chess game with the introduction of Bilra, and the competition between Bilra and Galaxy over the Fold Quartz. At the end of episode 15 there was this feeling something big was coming, and Alto was stated to be decisive in this. After Ohnogi there was nothing. I think the main reason there was nothing it was because Ohnogi wrote out all kinds of competition: not only there was no competition with Brera over Ranka, but there was also no more competition with Ranka in the story between Alto and Sheryl. How is one supposed to have chara development without competition and rivals? And adding to that Ohnogi took frustration out of the protagonist and gave it to another character. It's no wonder people thought the frustrated character was most interesting than the lead. Contrary to what Ohnogi said the show here actually lost its direction, because Ohnogi used as starting point what is the ending point (the two lovers getting together).

Why is my favorite character not evolving? Who is behind all this?

The added changes to Alto are clearly his sudden affinity with Sheryl. He was the kind of person that got away from home because he didn't like his father controlling his life. He wanted to be free in the sky, he wanted his spaces. How such person was supposed to like a girl domineering and with superior initiative like Sheryl that tricked him to go with her and do what she said is out of my mind. Even the personalities are opposite: Sheryl is adventurous and daring, while Alto is a quiet guy that doesn't like thrills, but don't mind to do something brave to save others (like Ranka before Ohnogi came). In fact in episode 13 Alto spoke his mind to Ranka, and then in episode 14 he was clearly into Ranka without any second glance or thought to Sheryl. Ranka was the girl that made him smile in the first episode, while Sheryl was the one that gave him a negative impression. The fact that Alto was mostly always with Sheryl was clearly to add drama to Alto's and Ranka's relationship; a good writer makes situations swing right before the end.

Ohnogi then thought to create affinity making Sheryl looking like Alto's mother, which is a giant boner killer, but who am I to judge other people's perversions? Well, that fetish freak me out, but that's just me. The fact is that it was clearly tacked on. At the end all he could do was force Alto into Sheryl through pity for her illness, which is not a great reason to marry a person I could say, unless you are Dr. James Wilson. And even then there are people who will make fun of you for that. From here on Macross Frontier was no longer a story about Superdimensional Love, it was about Superdimensional Pity.

Ranka. Now, this is serious stuff. I knew there was something wrong with her chara development, like the one in charge had spent all his good ideas, but I couldn't understand why until now. There is something I am more pissed for what happened to Ranka and the show though, and that's what Ohnogi said:

In Macross, there is no idol that could become useless without the microphone. And Ranka is no exception. For that I am here.

After Ohnogi met his wive he "awaked". Kawamori remembers that influenced the last part of Macross. Now, let's see what happens to Minmay in the last part of Macross.

-She became useless even when she sang. An interesting scene.

-She spent most of the time with a look in her eyes that said "I am so sorry". Or I am imagining things?

-She was kidnapped and rescued by Hikaru with the help of her love rival Misa. Talk about humiliation.

-But most of all:

She suddenly mostly ceases to see Hikaru. She couldn't even get off the car and say hi to her almost boyfriend. Not only that, she didn't even speak with anyone else aside from her cousin Kaifun. The number of her scenes was reduced, while Hikaru and Misa scenes were increased. Misa even became a habitué of Hikaru's house.

This appears to be Ohnogi's opinion on how to make a character useful. Quality writing indeed.

Now, let's compare it to Ranka.

-She became useless even when she sang. Check

-Looked like nothing interested her anymore. Check

-She was kidnapped and rescued by Alto with the help of her love rival Sheryl. Check

-But most of all:

She suddenly ceases to see Alto. I mean, she even got separated from him until the end. She didn't speak with anyone else aside from her brother Brera. Didn't even speak with anyone about the fact her belly ached when Vajra were killed, and thought about it only when it happened, like there were no weird things going on. Before Ohnogi came Ranka had a lot of people near her who gave her advice. There were Nanase, Ozma, Bobby, Michael. This part disappeared (it disappeared so much Ranka wrote Ozma a letter when she left, and then Ozma didn't even read it but was satisfied with a brief summary). I mean, Nanase is even working together with Ranka, and the two don't talk anymore; Ranka can't think of Nanase not even when she was hurt before her eyes! Since Nanase naturally could only exist as a friend of Ranka, with her disappearance she was disposed of. This doesn't mean maybe Nanase wasn't supposed to die in front of Ranka in episode 20 so that Ranka could show how she still got herself together and faced bravely the tragedy though, but she was eliminated from the story.

Yo Gubaba, I herd you like Nanase, so I put her into a come so she can be a useless character while friend of a useless character

To make things clearer Ranka spent a whole episode thinking about Alto and then when she hold his hand she could only think about her brother ("I am (not) so into you"). Not that it matters, Ranka previously fighted against Sheryl over Alto and then she suddenly was like "It's all over for me, he is taken". She wasn't even angered about this, like it was natural for Sheryl to be hooked up for eternity with Alto. One side of the love triangle suddenly doesn't take the love triangle seriously anymore, and this can only happen because the writer doesn't take his job seriously.

And what about Sheryl? Well, she became a habitué of both Alto's houses. The number of scenes between her and Alto skyrocketed; with Ranka gone what else could have happened? Ohnogi even wanted Alto so decisive about this he made him break his vow to never enter his former house again. Pushing for a kiss without some karmic balancement for Ranka appeared natural with these premises. And if Kawamori didn't brake Ohnogi who knows what could have happened? After all Alto and Sheryl were in Alto's mother's room, and Sheryl was wearing Alto's mother's kimono, and you know what Ohnogi thinks about his mum.

Can you seriously say that Ranka wasn't useless after Great Writer Ohnogitsuka barged in?

Bobby: I wonder if you will make Ranka [...] rule the galaxy...[/b]

Hiroshi Ohnogi: (Laughs) Believe me, the director had asked me to [...] You can say I have another plan in mind [...] Ranka [...] has become a dramatic burden on the story of Frontier. I want to reverse that. How? I do not know. I am still thinking.

(Keep thinking, Ohnogi)

When Kawamori was in charge Sheryl has never been useless instead, even when she was supposed to die. Kawamori should have more confidence in himself, he is a pro.

Check

By the way, Ohnogi was a scriptwriter in SEED Destiny. In SEED he only wrote the scenery. I heard that Cagalli was an indipendent tomboy and in Destiny she became a crybaby, and her pairing was kinda ruined (also in Destiny there was a famous main character hijacking). I didn't watch Destiny or SEED, but if you recognize things written above in it maybe we got a case of serial scriptraping against Ohnogi.

Now, Ohnogi thought that Ranka was stereotypical. He was right. In fact there are two major stereotypes: one is the character whose job is often clearly cut too big for him, but manage to do it anyway through bravery and resourcefulness. This character is the underdog. It's a famous stereotype, for example Gunbuster is the story of an underdog. The other stereotype instead is che character who already got all the skills neaded for the job and then some. This character is the Mary Sue.

What's a Mary Sue? Well, now it has become famous as a character who possess skills above the norm, who got no flaws and with a tragic story to be faced bravely, but originally the term meant someone who steals the spotlight from the main character and has sex with him.

Isn't this familiar?

A peek on internet gave even a physical description:

Revealing outfit? Check. Purple? Check. Ethereal traits? Check. Contradictory backstory? Check. Stealing the hero's job? Check. Sparkly? Check. She's good to go.

Why purple? Well, pink is a feminine color but is cute, purple is like the aggressive sister of pink. So purple it is, it gives bad girl vibes.

Check

One cannot not be bewildered for how Sheryl fit her stereotype right down to her clothing style. From how Ohnogi talk about her she was not supposed to be part of a mold, but when you actually think about it she is so much it's scary.

Now, there is a sign of a Mary Sue if you know one, and it's that Mary Sues don't have friends (by the way, people who don't have friends don't make good partners, because when they have a personal problem you are the only person in their life. Not that real life matters to Mary Sues). They are written for sex with a precise character in mind and they exist only for that, they are all business in their relationships, so why should they have lesser love interests? And it is so strange, since they can be more friends with your friends than you could ever been, and all people cannot help but admire and respect and obsess about Mary Sues (that is, except the ones who want to kill them).

-It was Sheryl who thought about saving Ranka's friend in ep. 20.

-In ep. 23 it was Sheryl the one who thought about Ranka. Elmo, who worked with her, couldn't even remember he was once the manager of Ranka and make comparisons.

-Michael and Klan were supposedly "bipartisan" from Ranka and Sheryl, ufficially only pushing for the love triangle to be resolved, but they only spoke to Sheryl and Alto, and never to Ranka. They also organized a meeting between Sheryl and Alto, while Ranka butted in only by chance and misunderstanding. Micheal saw Alto as the himself who didn't close with the first girl he met, so he pressed to make Alto close with the second girl he met. The only thing that doesn't make sense is why at the end of episode 12 he pressed Alto to stay with Ranka and not with Sheryl.

-Cathy thought Sheryl was a devil in the first episode, and she never had a chance to rethink her opinion. Then in ep. 24 she found out in Global's shipwreck a picture of Sheryl. He felt it was so important to salvage it, and she was smiling like it was their Sheryl. Ozma didn't even bother to show displeasure not having found any memento of Ranka.

As an aside, that was another sign of Ohnogi's deficient skills in writing. While the idea of SMS becoming pirates sounded awesome on paper, they didn't do nothing that they couldn't have actually done while remaining with Frontier and helping protect their people. They only needed to hide Ozma and Cathy and send messages to Earth's directorate. The idea of them finding revealing data in Global's shipwreck was a double idiocy: not only the Global was destroyed by a dimension eater (and before that collapsed when Vajra's ship emerged), but all the data were also cancelled before. This is a proof that when you disregard characterization you must also disregard short-term continuity. And what about Sheryl's photo ludicrously found there?

Whenever Poochie's not on screen, all the other characters should be asking "Where's Poochie"?

Frankly I think Mao Nome was tacked on by Ohnogi (who didn't even get her eye color right). She had absolutely no part in the story. For the story Ranshe and Grace were sufficient as scientists. Ohnogi wanted to explicitate the fact the Sheryl was a descendant of Mao, but was that really needed? We already knew Sheryl's earrings where retconned in Macross Zero, although I do only pray that it wasn't a revision made by Ohnogi (I heard something similar happened in Gundam SEED Destiny, because of a decision by some scriptwriter they added a scene in Gundam SEED that altered previously established facts). This is one of Ohnogi's worst flaws: the lack of any kind of subtlety whatsoever (In fact I guess that if he were subtle he wouldn't have tampered Macross Frontier).

It is for this reason that I hated how he killed Michael. The scene itself was sad, but I liked when it was without subtitles and I didn't know what was said. It was all ruined by Michael's last sentence (actually next to last sentence, because Michael became the one that not only speaks before he dies, but also the one who speaks when he dies. When the scriptwriter is in charge you can't have important scenes without dialogues)

"Hey, Alto... if you really care about someone, you'd give your life for them, right...?"

You can only make it more unsubtle phrasing it like this:

"Cool, I can see the future, but now I know I am gonna die. Better not be the usual prick and say something casual as I would have done if I didn't know I was gonna die, I want to show people how selfless I am when I die. Here I go!"

Which is Ohnogi standard level of dialogue anyway, as seen from his novelizations of Macross. Let's see Sheryl's dialogues for example.

Grace: "Hi Sheryl, do you remember your childhood terminal illness? Well, now you will remember it"

A normal follow-up would have been like: "I always knew this moment would have come, I just wished it lasted longer". And then character undergoes into depression until other characters "rescue" her. This is called "chara development".

Sheryl replied like a Mary Sue though: "Oh no, now I am ill. Well, I'll fight it, because I am Sheryl, Sheryl Nome. No, I can't even fight it. Tch! Oh no, now I've got even my career, my popularity, my fortune, and my villa taken away from me, what I am gonna do? I knew giving 100% royalties to my manager and letting her tipping me wasn't such a good idea, I just hope Grace is at least nice enough to send me back my dresses, the one I am wearing is starting to stink. And to think I was planning on being #1 singer forever, I have been so naive I am totally unprepared for this."

Mysteriously Grace was so bent on killing Sheryl that she thought just be verbally mean to her would suffice, and she let her go without a further thought for the rest of the series. Grace didn't feel like Sheryl could have been questioned (Bilra might have found Sheryl's case a useful information on what Galaxy was planning to do. He had an eye on Alto not by chance). She didn't even try to cover up what she was doing in front of Sheryl. She could simply tell Sheryl she felt Ranka had bigger chances of financial success, and tried to pass herself as an opportunistic person. Instead she chose to openly reveal her meanness, which is a major slip for a professional. But then again, Mary Sues make everyone around them act out of character.

Ohnogi Sheryl part 2: "OK, maybe I can take advantage from my terminal illness. Who wouldn't give in an elopement or two with a person who is gonna die? Who would be such a mean and unpityful bastard not to take advantage of a diseased? But I can't make him know of my illness, because it would be like begging an elopement, and I am Sheryl, Sheryl Nome, and I never begged in my whole life, not even when I was a beggar. Lucky me, I just found someone who learned about my illness without me telling him, now I just need he let it slip to Alto, a little sloppiness will do. It's so difficult to smile when in your mouth there's a manic laugh that would make you look like a brain diseased. Which I am. Now it's not like I would be asking Alto to pity me. I wanted him to love me without pitying me, but a pitying is fine, too. And since I don't have a house anymore there's no reason why he shouldn't let me live with him. Hang on Sheryl, you can still fulfill your lifelong desire of having sex with a single person in your whole life."

I think that some chara development could have happened at this point. Sheryl could have shown truly selfless love and thought that Alto shouldn't love a girl with such a short lifespan, so she could have even tried to put Alto together with Ranka (it's not like she didn't know Ranka was after Alto), because she didn't want him to be alone. She could have put Alto above herself. Alto then could have found this out and been so impressed that he would have chosen Sheryl. This would have been chara development, a word that basically means "change". We didn't get any change with Ohnogi though, because the illness subplot was treated (by every character, nonetheless) only as a pause between Alto and Sheryl's love, not as a source of chara development. Nobody moved on a bit.

There is a reason why Kawamori uses love triangles, and it's because a love triangle is a source of chara development. With a triangle you play it with interest swings, and it works fine. If you have couple-type love stories though the love story is a stretch until the two say "I love you" at the end. To make the stretch last some 25 to 50 episode generally you have to make either the male or the female clueless about her feelings. What you can't do is decide that the two characters are already together and already love making at half series, because at that point the only chara development option you have is to make them break. Alto for most series was together with Sheryl; sorry Ohnogi but if make things go that way you have to make him switch girl at the end or the story will be stale and predictable, you got yourself into a corner with your own hands. Never thought you could let Alto talk with Ranka and then still making him end up with Sheryl like a good writer would have done? The amatuerish mistake he made was thinking that "love stories" are about love; it's a misnomer, they are more properly called "falling in love stories". And when you are falling in love you don't do things like agreeing to live under the same roof, like a platonic couple, it skips the whole "falling in love" part away.

A good story is one where in the end the underdog wins and the Mary Sue loses. When the Mary Sue wins over the underdog it's called "bad fanfiction" (or simply "fanfiction"). If Ohnogi had turned Sheryl into the underdog a story between her and Alto would have appeared gratifying, instead Ohnogi made her even more than ever the Mary Sue. Since Ranka was also severely shafted at this point, it's no wonder Alto didn't choose anyone.

Ohnogi Sheryl part 3: "So many words to say I am gonna die, huh? But I am Sheryl, Sheryl Nome, and you can't lick me, because I am gonna die, 'nuff said. You'd like to say I am gonna die but you don't have the guts, because you would cry like a baby if you were me, not that you aren't a baby yourself. And here I am, the epitome of humility, more perfect than I have ever been, totally selfless, so I will take your job and die. How can I manage this humble front of mine? That's my secret, but I will tell you anyway: healthy doses of good ol' pumpin' and blowin', it keeps you feisty. I put up my most suffering face and I milk mah man of his juice, that's what I do. I could teach you how to do that with your bazonga if you wish, life told me medical conditions ain't no match for free love."

I can't see how Sheryl became the embodyment of humility according to the vision of Ohnogi. Is it because she now gives money to the poors? But that's altruism, not humility. OK, she became an altruistic prideful diva. Openly begging sex from Alto is not what I would call humility either, since it's putting yourself first (not only of Alto, but also of Ranka). And I certainly hope Ohnogi didn't consider humility being the last person to be considerate of Ranka's physical well being, without evaluating how stealing her love interest has emotionally affected her. Now, if you want to make a character deep you make him question his most relevant trait in the story. Usually it's his reluctance to take the lead. In Sheryl's case it has become his love for Alto. Sheryl once had other things, then Grace magically took them away from her, and made her a bidimensional character. Ohnogi then worked his best to keeps things this flat.

At the start of the series Sheryl had a public professional person ("I am Sheryl, Sheryl Nome"). In ep. 7 Sheryl got emotional in front of a public. It was a good moment, things could have progressed from there. At the end of the series Sheryl is back again to her public professional facade. Privately, she was interested in Alto; at the end of the series she is horny for Alto. Big changes. She never learned how to be always herself in public, or how to mix with people other than her love interest. You thought that a terminal illness would have radically changed a person. It didn't happen, Sheryl only confirmed herself while waiting the bad moments of her illness out. But that's understandable, if Sheryl or Alto were to change too much they couldn't end up together like Ohnogi wanted. Now you can see how much a Mary Sue hijack can backfire.

See also what was done to the main character. Alto once was supposed to 1) conquer the love of Ranka 2) defeat Brera 3) defeat Galaxy and save the universe. After Ohnogi Alto has only do decide whether or not to submit himself to Sheryl, with the no being a lot harder than the yes. Since he wasn't tied to Brera anymore his role in the plot became merely ceremonial.

Personally, I really liked Sheryl's new songs. I think May'n has a better voice than Megumi. I am also not opposed to have Sheryl last till the end. I think the final episode of Macross Frontier is the greatest thing ever, and the double songstress attack was a brilliant idea that was worth a lot. That's director Kawamori for you. Now that I know the truth I am also relieved that he still knows how to write a story in a coherent, consistent and well planned way, masterpiece level. It's not like Frontier was conceived as a trainwreck with staff focusing on a single character to save it.

But there's one thing that makes me pissed, that makes me mad. It's that Ohnogi lied to his friend Kawamori, the one who was so kind to remember Ohnogi's first encounter with his wife after all these years. He spoke about improvements on Macross Frontier and other arrogant rambling. That was not the truth. "I am gonna ship Alto with Sheryl, and there's nothing you can do about it". This is what he should have said. You speak honestly with a friend.

I explained what I think about Ohnogi as a writer, but I cannot type in this forum what I think about Ohnogi as a person.

FV

[Germán]

this information is similar a Macross Generation Forums.

[mike_s_6]

On the contrary, I felt that Sheryl's addition to the animation was a very good call. I watched the show primarily for her (and the Valks of course). Calling Sheryl a "Mary Sue" is weird, because I saw her as character obviously flawed, and not just flawed to make her adorable. If you want a Mary Sue, I could think of Lacus Clyne, who absolutely does NOTHING wrong, is cute, sweet, friendly, talented, loved by the lead men, a good war speaker, is intelligent, and most glaringly, soft-spoken like a waifu despite all of it. Sheryl on the other hand goes around screaming trying to get her underwear back, steals kisses, can barely pilot a Valk, screams to the media, really, this isn't your definition of Mary Sue. She just sounds like a Mary Sue because her character has been successfully written to be beautiful despite her flaws.

For me, any turn out of the animation's story is both the fault of Ohnogi and Kawamori, and everyone else in between. Everyone in the production staff had a call in this. Kawamori decided to let him have a go, instead of waving him off and saying, "I'm director, Ranka rules, okay, end of story!" instead, he gave him the go signal.

Edited March 6, 2009 by mike_s_6

[edwin3060]

I hope your rant was cathartic! You have clearly been bottling up alot!

Anyway, just a few points as I understand it: SK himself admitted that he didn't know what to do with the story, which is why he brought Ohnogi in--- judging from the reception of MF so far I think Ohnogi succeeded wildly. You shouldn't be too nostalgic for the Macross Plus storyline-- people remember Macross Plus for the mecha porn more than the actual story or love triangle IMO.

Still, your personal preferences are your own--- and you might just get to see the MF that you like, judging by the news about the MF Movie.

[pato]

I hope you realize that your post is basically flame bait. Anyway, I don't think that Kawamori was completely unaware or against the changes proposed by Ohnogi and as such, it is difficult to think that the story was biased to one side. From my point of view, it only flowed that way.

[Killer Robot]

Anyway, just a few points as I understand it: SK himself admitted that he didn't know what to do with the story, which is why he brought Ohnogi in--- judging from the reception of MF so far I think Ohnogi succeeded wildly. You shouldn't be too nostalgic for the Macross Plus storyline-- people remember Macross Plus for the mecha porn more than the actual story or love triangle IMO.

I agree totally the love triangle in Macross Plus wasn't the most memorable, though partly I think that a love triangle is harder to do in a short work like that, while mecha porn is more instant gratification. I'm not sure what SK would have done with this story otherwise, especially if Ohnogi came in so late: it would have missed so much of the personal ups and downs which made the second half of the series interesting not just to watch but to go back to and dissect. In particular, I'm not sure where Alto would have been developed further, and especially Brera: more could have been done with his struggle between his lost memories and Grace's control, but I don't see that as making more interesting three-way character interaction regarding the love triangle. I will give that Macross Plus had a love triangle where all three members related to each other, and Guld was an estranged childhood pal, not just some other pilot after the same girl: this take sounds like Brera simply would have been a more persistent and complete foil for Alto, more of a cyborg Kaifun who also had a superadvanced Valkyrie. We might have gotten a little more mecha battles out of it if there was more pilot rivalry, but I think budget was the primary limit to what we saw so I don't expect there would have been much extra.

I admit I'm also a little confused by the argument that if she wasn't a Mary Sue, Sheryl would have just yawned and moved on when she found out not only that the only person she'd known for years had both betrayed her career and knowingly left her with a terminal disease rather than having her cured ten years ago. On the contrary, her reactions were more complex and understandable than I had expected.

[shan]

Wow, um, I'm not aware of that interview. I might be too outdated of the latest happenings. I wasn't even aware Kawamori wasn't in charge of the last episodes but Ohnogi. That's probably why a lot of fans turned against Ranka in the latter part of the series. I've seen a lot of fans confess that they liked ranka in the beginning but she became unbearable later in the end and sheryl became likable. I thought Kawamori changed preference. This explains it. I can't say I agree with all of it, with sheryl labeled as a mary sue, but I did enjoy your rant and felt like a lot of it spoke to what I felt after watching the whole thing too. I also felt there were some inconsistencies here and there with the characters' behaviors. The insertion of Mao Nome's connection to Sheryl did nothing to the storyline and felt like a last minute addition. Bilrer's dream in ep 16 and its significance was never explored. I wasn't a big fan of Ranka calling Sheryl from the dead since I thought that scene was overdone.

The interview confirmed that Ranka's potential was undeniable but ultimately in the end, it was never shown. She was made to leave Frontier, learn about her past, only to grieve and be manipulated. She had to be rescued in the end. All in all, I never felt like she "shone" for lack of a better word. I'm not blaming Ohnogi here aside from the good things that happened from his intervention, just the downside of it all is that Ranka's character suffered the most. And the worst part is, Ohnogi claimed that he was there to salvage her character. There could've been a better way to handle all these changes without neglecting any character. How many fans ended up hating Ranka in the end? The fans' reactions to Ranka were much favorable when she popped out of a VF in Galia and killed everyone with Seikan Hikou. My two cents since I think Final Vegeta's rant needs a bit more credit.

B: Exactly who do you think?

HO: Well, I convinced Kawamori to let me do a Macross Frontier epic. His series has everything but that and Macross has always been epic. That's why I came.

To tell a director that his story isn't "epic", that can't not hurt.

[azrael]

You could have saved most of the rant for a blog.....

So...you don't want Ohnogi anywhere near the movie I take it? And we should be glad we got the harem ending instead of pleasing the Sheryl 'shippers?

[edwin3060]

The interview confirmed that Ranka's potential was undeniable but ultimately in the end, it was never shown. She was made to leave Frontier, learn about her past, only to grieve and be manipulated. She had to be rescued in the end. All in all, I never felt like she "shone" for lack of a better word. I'm not blaming Ohnogi here aside from the good things that happened from his intervention, just the downside of it all is that Ranka's character suffered the most. And the worst part is, Ohnogi claimed that he was there to salvage her character. There could've been a better way to handle all these changes without neglecting any character. How many fans ended up hating Ranka in the end? The fans' reactions to Ranka were much favorable when she popped out of a VF in Galia and killed everyone with Seikan Hikou. My two cents since I think Final Vegeta's rant needs a bit more credit.

To tell a director that his story isn't "epic", that can't not hurt.

Well either Ohnogi is the best smooth talker this side of the Galaxy, or SK took his suggestions because he was not satisfied with the way Frontier was going in the first place... which sounds more plausible?

Anyway, like Killer Robot said, I don't see how the story could have developed otherwise. Personally, I felt that the first 6 and last 6 episodes of Frontier were the most interesting and exciting, and the middle portion was more or less filler-- if Ohnogi had not taken over maybe we would have only had the first 6 episodes being good and the rest being bland, run-of-the-mill, mecha anime. I get the feeling SK started out strong, but ran out of steam after the first couple of episodes, then muddled around for abit, before getting Ohnogi in for the second half the series. Maybe after all the focus on OVAs and short series (including all the Macross 7 spin-offs), SK is more accustomed to working in short 4-5 episode bursts rather than longer broadcast series?

[magnuskn]

Final Vegeta, the translation of the interview was done by Shaloom from the Spanish Macross Generation forums. Please credit him and Macross Generation in your post, since they really don´t like it if their work is posted uncredited.

As for your opinion, I think I don´t need the stress of picking apart everything. Ohnogi saved the series, that´s what I think.

[mike_s_6]

Guys...

Sheryl Nome was a Nome right from the start. Also, Kawamori found out through fan reactions that Sheryl was popular after Star Date, which most likely confused him as he thought Ranka is the perfect one. That was not Ohnogi, and perhaps is also the reason he let Ohnogi give his take on Sheryl - he's a guy who knows how it feels and how it works. Also, this:

maybe he would have died virgin if a girl didn't approach him first and he didn't secure her as soon as possible

If Ohnogi was a girl who was never approached by a man, how would you feel about this statement? :\

[Final Vegeta]

On the contrary, I felt that Sheryl's addition to the animation was a very good call. I watched the show primarily for her (and the Valks of course). Calling Sheryl a "Mary Sue" is weird, because I saw her as character obviously flawed, and not just flawed to make her adorable. If you want a Mary Sue, I could think of Lacus Clyne, who absolutely does NOTHING wrong, is cute, sweet, friendly, talented, loved by the lead men, a good war speaker, is intelligent, and most glaringly, soft-spoken like a waifu despite all of it. Sheryl on the other hand goes around screaming trying to get her underwear back, steals kisses, can barely pilot a Valk, screams to the media, really, this isn't your definition of Mary Sue. She just sounds like a Mary Sue because her character has been successfully written to be beautiful despite her flaws.

You are talking about the Sheryl Kawamori was in charge of. At that time Sheryl was not a Mary Sue, and she was indeed a good addition, she was a balanced character (all the other characters were). You must consider only the Sheryl since ep. 18, that one is Ohnogi's Sheryl (with episode 16 he just made quick changes to keep her alive longer). Since ep. 18 did she ever do anything wrong, wasn't cute, sweet, friendly, talented, loved by the lead men (and respected by all other characters), intelligent, etc.? Was there a character who had a negative opinion of her anymore? She even became a charitable celebrity!

I am not arguing against Sheryl, I am arguing against Ohnogi.

Anyway, just a few points as I understand it: SK himself admitted that he didn't know what to do with the story, which is why he brought Ohnogi in

Read the interview with Ohnogi again. He stated that Kawamori did know what to do with the story, and other writers would have judged perfect what he was planning to do. What Kawamori didn't know was how to keep Sheryl in the story, especially since in ep. 15 Grace stated she would have disposed of her.

--- judging from the reception of MF so far I think Ohnogi succeeded wildly. You shouldn't be too nostalgic for the Macross Plus storyline-- people remember Macross Plus for the mecha porn more than the actual story or love triangle IMO.

True. You must consider that Gundam SEED Destiny, which is loathed by Western Gundam fans, is wildly popular in Japan, and it is one of the biggest anime best-sellers. And Destiny was written with the help of Ohnogi. But I don't know if I would bow to success sacrificing integrity.

Also the successful idea of Macross Plus was making the people in the love triangle fight for their love even with valkyries. As Kawamori said, he does stories with both action and romance.

I hope you realize that your post is basically flame bait.

It is worse than that, while I was writing I thought

Anyway, I don't think that Kawamori was completely unaware or against the changes proposed by Ohnogi and as such, it is difficult to think that the story was biased to one side. From my point of view, it only flowed that way.

I think it is difficult to think that the story was biased to one side unless someone didn't read Ohnogi's interview carefully:

HO: The triangle has been defined little by the lack of decision of the director. But I hope that I can define it with the few episodes that are left. At least I have the permission by Kawamori to have total control over the matter.

This is biased. Then again, even Kawamori was. Who is supposed not to write a love triangle without knowing how to solve it? The thing I am judging here is equity of treatment. You can kill every character if you want, make them suffer every tragedy, but they must be all made of win. After Ohnogi most people found only Sheryl was interesting, who knows why.

I can't say I agree with all of it, with sheryl labeled as a mary sue

But only starting with episode 18, when Ohnogi was fully in charge. As I wrote, it was funny how her fortune and her villa in that episode magically disappeared, and Sheryl was not portrayed as a rich person anymore. People around her didn't even recognized her anymore. She was suddenly miserable in every possible way without any explanation.

I wasn't a big fan of Ranka calling Sheryl from the dead since I thought that scene was overdone.

I thought a last minute miracle was acceptable, like it was somewhat acceptable the fact that a brain disease didn't make you experience things like altered personality and other neurological symptoms, but simply sudden death. Also Sheryl finally undergoing complete depression and then Ranka snapping her out with a slap were worthy the scene.

I have more strict standards with mecha battles though, but luckily these are one of Kawamori's strong points.

The interview confirmed that Ranka's potential was undeniable but ultimately in the end, it was never shown. She was made to leave Frontier, learn about her past, only to grieve and be manipulated. She had to be rescued in the end. All in all, I never felt like she "shone" for lack of a better word. I'm not blaming Ohnogi here aside from the good things that happened from his intervention, just the downside of it all is that Ranka's character suffered the most. And the worst part is, Ohnogi claimed that he was there to salvage her character. There could've been a better way to handle all these changes without neglecting any character.

And what about Brera, who as I explained was fundamental for the development of Alto? There's no way out: Sheryl had to die. Think about all the time avalaible without having to include Sheryl scenes. A lot.

Ranka, as the underdog, was written as a character that could fail small tests, but win all the important ones. There is no way that in ep. 20 she wouldn't have been resolute, especially since Sheryl wasn't supposed to be there in the start. But Ohnogi still wanted Sheryl to shine better, even when Ranka was more important for the story than her. So there we went.

My two cents since I think Final Vegeta's rant needs a bit more credit.

Thank you. I needed that

To tell a director that his story isn't "epic", that can't not hurt.

After Ohnogi there weren't any big battles until the last two episodes thoughs. That's a long stretch since ep. 14. But then again, the interview explained clearly:

B: What can we hope now in Macross Frontier?

HO: Drama, romance, an epic story, great dialogue, memorable scenes. What is really a Macross, I hope you like my work.

Ohnogi made no mention of battles anywhere. How can you have an epic story without epic battles?

FV

[Final Vegeta]

You could have saved most of the rant for a blog.....

So...you don't want Ohnogi anywhere near the movie I take it? And we should be glad we got the harem ending instead of pleasing the Sheryl 'shippers?

Please be gentle, you don't know how many posts I will have be ready to reply from now on

I hope Ohnogi get ohnogi'd, being exposed as a writer of fansturbations and then written out of Kawamori's life parting for a self-discovery journey. The harem ending is not a problem, nor would be if Sheryl won. The problem is that the story was consistent in making Sheryl not win. Alto was together with her because she stole his amulet, hired him as a help for a series of ads, promised him the sky, and then because of her illness. Alto never had to "invest" in Sheryl once, he never had to make efforts to get Sheryl, she was almost stalking him. There is a saying in my country: "in love those who flee win". People want what they can't get more than what they can get easily. As chara development goes, it is simply irrealistic to hook up Alto with Sheryl. If you properly build the story though it can be done, but in Frontier it was not done neither by Kawamori nor even by Ohnogi himself (who simply put them together under the same roof and hope they would grow to love each other).

Well either Ohnogi is the best smooth talker this side of the Galaxy, or SK took his suggestions because he was not satisfied with the way Frontier was going in the first place... which sounds more plausible?

Kawamori seems to be the kind of perfectionist who is always insecure of himself. Being self-taught but humble he valued the experience of what probably is his senpai. Plus Ohnogi was a friend, and a friend would never betray you, wouldn't him?

Anyway, like Killer Robot said, I don't see how the story could have developed otherwise. Personally, I felt that the first 6 and last 6 episodes of Frontier were the most interesting and exciting, and the middle portion was more or less filler

"I can't see" is a not objective objection.

Do you really suppose Kawamori, who is a director with thirty years of experience, would have started a series without first taking his time to think out how to end it, and therefore was forced to beg his friend (but not his staff) to help him?

Do you really think that after killing Sheryl in ep. 16 he wouldn't have know how to advance the plot? I mean, doesn't he already have Ranka, who is tied to the Vajra and Galaxy's conspiracy? Wouldn't be Ranka enough for the rest of the story, instead of Sheryl whose abilities were ready only by the last two episodes, and even then were only a support since Frontier's fleet developed new anti-Vajra weapons?

That I can't see.

By the way, I am sorry you didn't like episode 7, I felt it was great and a lot of people here always voted it as one of the best episode, but then again we are mecha fans. As I wrote, with the earlier departure of Sheryl episode 8-9-10 would have been probably substituted by an arc of story that directly tied up to Gallia 4. Ep. 12 was great, not only the KIRA, but also the appearance of the Global at the end. And I liked the face of Alto finally satisfying his dream of lying in the sky, it's not often you see protagonist of a mecha show so happy, especially so early in the series.

Ep. 12, 13, 14 were building up a momentum. I thought episode 15 would have chilled things again back to normal since the big battle was over, but boy how I was wrong! Despite being a cost-cutting episode it was not only beautiful in itself, with the sing-off between Sheryl and Ranka, but also it spiced things up in a way I didn't think it was conceivable. Now everything already happened was a conspiracy ready for the next step, we got finally the amusing introduction of Bilra, then Galaxy was shown to be intact after all, then they mentioned the word Protoculture, and then they suggested that Alto would have being one of the most decisive person for the fate of the galaxy. I wasn't surprised to know the episode was directed personally by Kawamori. Kawamori, you old trickster, you did it again, this is the best anime ever! I was in ecstacy.

Then ep. 16 was meh. I hoped it was just a slip, luckily ep. 17 compensated it. After than I liked the episodes less except for the last four. I feel defrauded of a masterpiece.

FV

[MisaForever]

No where in this thread does it mention who Ohnogi is. Was he a writer or something? Inquiring minds want to know.

[mike_s_6]

You are talking about the Sheryl Kawamori was in charge of. At that time Sheryl was not a Mary Sue, and she was indeed a good addition, she was a balanced character (all the other characters were). You must consider only the Sheryl since ep. 18, that one is Ohnogi's Sheryl (with episode 16 he just made quick changes to keep her alive longer). Since ep. 18 did she ever do anything wrong, wasn't cute, sweet, friendly, talented, loved by the lead men (and respected by all other characters), intelligent, etc.? Was there a character who had a negative opinion of her anymore? She even became a charitable celebrity!

I am not arguing against Sheryl, I am arguing against Ohnogi.

After what the character has gone through, you'd think that she'd start being a polished gem by that time, don't you think? Isn't that what Ohnogi admitted above? She was the one who is going to suffer from humiliation and learn from it, the hard way. It's good character development if you ask me, and it stemmed from what Kawamori had done so far, and I consider this to be a good synergy. Besides, as I pointed out, Sheryl was already more loved than Ranka in the time Kawamori handled her. It was already tipped towards her right from the start, except in Japan (last I checked, English forums and Chinese forums were heavily tipped towards supporting Sheryl, even before Ohnogi cut in). He only let Ohnogi handle it because he didn't expect this reaction towards Sheryl, and as a director who has admitted that his pet Ranka isn't the popular one overseas, he gains respect from me.

Also, the only character who actually shipped her was not a man, it's Klan. Michael just wants Alto to choose between the two, and Alto himself didn't choose. You know what, I just realized that it was during those Ohnogi episodes that I started to like Ranka too, and another one of my friends told me that he also started to like Ranka towards the end. You don't give credit for him for this, don't you? I'd rather have had Ranka as partly damaged and strong, than to have Kawamori's own pet version (read: Maaary Sue) of her.

EDIT: If you're going to blame someone, blame Kawamori for not having the spine to kill off Sheryl if that's what he planned. Only because he knows Sheryl reels in $$$.

Edited March 6, 2009 by mike_s_6

[magnuskn]

No where in this thread does it mention who Ohnogi is. Was he a writer or something? Inquiring minds want to know.

He wrote episodes 18-24 for Macross Frontier, has done numerous other writing work, including for the original Macross.

Final Vegeta, please edit your initial post and give credit to Shaloom and the Macross Generation forums!

Edited March 6, 2009 by magnuskn

[Final Vegeta]

Sheryl Nome was a Nome right from the start.

[Citation needed]

Have you watched Macross Zero? Do you have proof Edgar La Salle was related to Claudia La Salle, just because they have the same surname? What if it's a red herring?

Also, Kawamori found out through fan reactions that Sheryl was popular after Star Date, which most likely confused him as he thought Ranka is the perfect one.

Kawamori didn't think Ranka was the perfect one, just that she was written as the most central to the plot. I mean, she is the only one with Vajra bacteria in her belly. Her mother was working together with Grace, and the two argued a lot. Sheryl was only a simple singer until the very last episodes. Even an eventual tie with Mao Nome (provided it was not a late addition) what could have meant? After all we don't even know what Mao thought, that's how important she was.

How could have Kawamori kept Sheryl further in the story? She was totally disposable.

That was not Ohnogi, and perhaps is also the reason he let Ohnogi give his take on Sheryl - he's a guy who knows how it feels and how it works.

I posted a whole interview above, could you please quote passages from it to support your statements?

For example, since you talked about how Sheryl was affected by the polls, let's see how Ohnogi spoke about it:

HO: Then he asked for my opinion, and I told him that, as he had planned the story and the changes he had made, the series had lost their way.

B: Kawamori-sama lost direction? Has Macross Frontier made many changes?

HO: That's very common in a TV series. This relates to how the market is reacting and the popularity polls of the characters that make the magazines every month. In these surveys, directors and writers see an idea of how history is acting in the public and we can correct or improve the series to gain a wider audience.

From what Ohnogi said, Kawamori made changes to the story. Since it is established Ohnogi enlarged Sheryl's role, one is to suppose that before Ohnogi changes were made to reduce Sheryl's role instead, and that changes reflected surveys, so it means Sheryl was not that liked. That or Sheryl was doing well and Ohnogi is a flat-out liar, which is the most likely case

If Ohnogi was a girl who was never approached by a man, how would you feel about this statement? :\

Are you implying Sheryl and Ohnogi shared common fear, like Sheryl was a female impersonification of Ohnogi?

FV

[Nexx Stalker]

The real question is: who's to blame for Brera's "casual" suit?

[Final Vegeta]

No where in this thread does it mention who Ohnogi is. Was he a writer or something? Inquiring minds want to know.

I knew I was forgetting something You are the kind of person that question what others take for granted, I like it. Well, yes, he writes. Not very well, I argued, but he was a member of Studio Nue, which is the creative studio that created Macross. Ohnogi also worked with several other famous anime, either writing the script or the scenario. Often works with Kawamori himself. For now it should suffice, it's time to go to bed in my part of the world

FV

[magnuskn]

Thanks for crediting the original posters of the interview.

[mike_s_6]

[Citation needed]

Have you watched Macross Zero? Do you have proof Edgar La Salle was related to Claudia La Salle, just because they have the same surname? What if it's a red herring?

Sorry, can't prove that she was indeed a Nome apart from her name. Can anyone prove either that she wasn't a Nome right from the start, apart from a hunch?

Kawamori didn't think Ranka was the perfect one

That's what he thought. Ranka was this adorable, talented, sweet, friendly, innocent, and cute girl who was definitely slated for stardom. Even her flaws were the adorable kind in a childish sense. Again, who's the Mary Sue? I'd say Sheryl is Ohnogi's Sue, and Ranka is Kawamori's Sue. They're now on equal footing. LOL. Thing is, Sheryl's "Mary Sueness" came after she was flogged with trials, and that is beautiful. Do you watch Gundam 00? It's the same with Tieria Erde. He's currently perfect, but people love him because he went through the "change phase". And people disliked Anew because she popped out of nowhere as perfect as she can be. Also, no one is calling Tieria a Gary Stu even now. There is a difference.

I posted a whole interview above, could you please quote passages from it to support your statements?

I was more quoting you for saying this:

That's the reason why Ohnogi liked Sheryl in episode 5 when she flirted openly with Alto, it remembered him his wife.

He knows the feeling, therefore he can write better about it. But if your assumption is wrong, then I take back my reply to you.

From what Ohnogi said, Kawamori made changes to the story. Since it is established Ohnogi enlarged Sheryl's role, one is to suppose that before Ohnogi changes were made to reduce Sheryl's role instead, and that changes reflected surveys, so it means Sheryl was not that liked. That or Sheryl was doing well and Ohnogi is a flat-out liar, which is the most likely case

I am very much lost by your second sentence, sorry, care to clarify? My point is that Kawamori planned to kill Sheryl or remove her somehow (or is that just one of your assumptions too?) and didn't, and let someone like Ohnogi, who has told him what he wanted to do, take full control of the script. What now? Who to blame? The eager writer, or the lenient director? Of course you blame the eager writer because he didn't develop your favorite character to your liking, am I right? The polls in foreign language forums, and the current polls in Japan too, seem to like how he treated Sheryl. If they shafted Sheryl (as planned) on the other hand, the Japanese would have liked it as Ranka was popular even before he came in, but it would have alienated the foreign fanbase of whom so many love Sheryl. As it stands, he has made Sheryl win the hearts of both foreign and local fans, and that in itself is a success on his behalf, and was also approved by a big chunk of the fanbase.

If Kawamori wanted to override what Ohnogi was doing to Ranka's and Sheryl's characters, why didn't he do it? He is director for a reason. He should be able to steer the show to his liking. Praising Kawamori while dissing Ohnogi is unfair.

Are you implying Sheryl and Ohnogi shared common fear, like Sheryl was a female impersonification of Ohnogi?

No, more like your assumption sounds sexist, but moreover attacks person (Ohnogi) instead of the argument itself. Have you ever thought that being approached by a girl and accepting it is not demeaning at all, and it's probably just because he's err, attractive for some reason?

Edited March 7, 2009 by mike_s_6

[Killer Robot]

Also, the only character who actually shipped her was not a man, it's Klan. Michael just wants Alto to choose between the two, and Alto himself didn't choose. You know what, I just realized that it was during those Ohnogi episodes that I started to like Ranka too, and another one of my friends told me that he also started to like Ranka towards the end. You don't give credit for him for this, don't you? I'd rather have had Ranka as partly damaged and strong, than to have Kawamori's own pet version (read: Maaary Sue) of her.

Agreed on these points: both with how Klan and Michael treated Sheryl and with how the later parts of the series were what gave me a lot more respect for Ranka. Now, there's meaning past "Mary Sue" than "character I think got too much screen time": a big part is whether it's more than the audience is ready to accept, and checklist methods have their flaws. All the same, the base take on Ranka had "author's pet" all over her in classic modes:

• The personality: As was put before: sweet and cute and innocent, with even her flaws being limited to the childishly adorable. If SK didn't see her as the perfect one, he sure wrote her as such.
• The hair: unusual eye and hair colors don't carry as far in anime as other genres, especially when it's a common Zentradi trait. Ranka went a step further and had animated hair thanks to her alien heiritage. Let's forget that it's a trait that had never been seen among the many other Zentradi seen in the franchise. Even Sheryl's digital coloration was less exotic by comparison.
• The singing: she's a great singer, that's fine given that her story arc is about being discovered as a city. What I mean is past that, how her singing had sudden, jarring effects on people. Just one little song out of the blue, pointedly where another singer was being ignored, got the whole crowd watching and loving her. Elmo immediately saw the star he wanted and staked his career on her. The director(SK incarnate) heard her song and immediately wanted it for his movie. Her career took off like a rocket even with forces actively conspiring against her. Zentradi warriors, ones quite used to human culture, seemingly forgot the latter fact when they sank to their knees in tears at a surprise concert. Basara would run crying, wondering why he had to work so hard to make people listen to his song.
• Actual magic powers: Okay, not literally magic, but as was pointed out, she was the girl who had the special resonance with the weird aliens, above and beyond just being a talent. Poor Minmay: all she did was serve as a visible face for the whole idea of human culture, not stop the war with her unique powers.
• Animal affinity: Explained by the previous, but still when the cute little alien critter immediately gravitates to and befriends the cute little heroine, that's one of those things.
• Center of attention: Not just the singing, though that's part. She's the focus of her social group, she's respected by those around her even when there's no particular reason. Even Sheryl swiftly took her for something special and made her a quick exception to the diva attitude.

Anyway, the thing is that Ranka had the makings of a prime Mary Sue story. She almost realized them too: all she had to do was continue her unimpeded rise to the top replacing the outmoded pop antics of Sheryl Nome(hey, remember back when she was popular?), singlehandedly stop the war with her special alien powers, all while not just getting the guy but getting her choice between the two guys. This didn't happen: instead we got a much stronger and more believable story of a girl who made it far on talent and ambition, had some stumbles, and along with her friends saved the day before coming through as a much more mature person. Forgetting anything about Sheryl's story arc, if Ohnogi deviated Ranka from the simple path she'd been on, he did a great thing for her character and likeability.

Though more central to the series than to a character, I'm still mostly missing what this "masterpiece that never was" would have had for a final act. Frontier had flaws and loose ends, and things I wish had been developed more - still, the great majority of its last several episodes pushed hard on the character interactions and central themes in the series. If SDFM was about the power of culture and rejection not of war but of soulless warlike existence, and if Macross 7 was about the spirit of the individual making a difference, Macross Frontier was about how people's relationships bring them together into something greater and stronger than they are alone. Given that Sheryl was the one of the main three that most had to find and accept that sort of strength, I think a take of the series where she had been disposed of or marginalized would have been as lessened as a version of SDFM where the writers had stuck to keeping Minmay as nothing more than that girl who delivers Chinese food to the bridge crew now and then.

[Swampstorm]

Nice AU fic, but Ohnogi was a bit too OOC for my taste.

The difficulty in reading this is that a large number of the listed points don't reference any source, so it's difficult to separate fact from the story used to weave them together.

By polarizing Kawamori and Ohnogi into opposing forces battling for authorship, we are presented with the illusion that there are not one, but two stories. This second, hypothetical storyline sets the stage for rest of the post to reship reshape the entire story.

I'm a bit surprised that Yoshino's role wasn't discussed, seeing as he was the one who apparently put forward the existing love triangle concept in place of the Macross Plus style triangle, during the pre-production stages. I think the biggest thing that was glossed over here was the fact that the story never was written by just one person to begin with - it was a collaborative effort.

[Gubaba]

Final Vegeta, I've been trying to come up with a response to your thoughts, but I really can't...there's too much speculation and too many assumptions, and I can't quite get a firm grasp on the facts here.

I also wish Ranka had been presented better, especially in the later episodes of the series (I was really pulling for her...Sheryl's a great character, but it's her nature to overwhelm anyone around her). If you don't like what Ohnogi did with her, fine. But it really seems to be unwarrented to accuse him of betraying Kawamori, or suggest that he's personally unappealing. Unless you're a close confidant of the Macross F staff, you really have no way of knowing this.

Likewise, are you sure that the "Minmay can't talk to Hikaru, and Misa's cleaning up his place" situation is solely Ohnogi's doing? if so, where did you find this information?

Personally, I think of Ohnogi (and Tomita) as the unsung heroes of Macross...rarely celebrated, rarely even mentioned, but adding immeasurably to Macross in many, many ways.

Right now, I'm working on Ohnogi's novel about Misa, and while it's difficult, I'm finding it quite rewarding. He's a good writer, and (like anyone working in a compromised medium like television) while he has his fair share of "misses"," he also has a huge number of successes (including Orguss, L-Gaim, and Zeta Gundam).

Anyway, my point is that you're getting angry at a straw man of your own creation. If it comes out that everything you think is Ohnogi's fault really IS his fault, then okay. Blast away. But until that time, it's unfair and unwarranted to do so.

[Renato]

Final Vegeta, I admire all the work and thought you've put into this thread and in trying to stimulate interesting behind-the-scenes production debate, which I always enjoy more than discussing the actual stories of the shows.

I have a question, though, where did you get the information surrounding his private life, ie the way he married his wife etc? I don't think I have read about that.

And I have the SDF novels back in the UK, I'd like to check them out again now. What I find odd is that Ohnogi ended the story at the final showdown with Bodolza, while in the SDF TV show he was brought in to cover the post-war arc for Kawamori et al who had gone on to plan the DYRL movie. In any case, I see a striking difference between Hikaru's kind of passive attitude towards Misa in the series and the way he professes his unswaying love for her in the movie (written by Sukehiro Tomita). As with Frontier, the final episodes of the SDF series show that the main characters and the resolution of their relationship have no real impact on the broader story (in the case of SDF, the Kamjin attack). If indeed this is a signature of Ohnogi's writing, then it is interesting indeed, though a shame.

[edited for clarity]

Edited March 7, 2009 by Renato

[Gubaba]

Final Vegeta, I admire all the work and thought you've put into this thread and in trying to stimulate interesting behind-the-scenes production debate, which I always enjoy more than discussing the actual stories of the shows.

I have a question, though, where did you get the information surrounding his private life, ie the way he married his wife etc? I don't think I have read about that.

And I have the SDF novels back in the UK, I'd like to check them out again now. What I find odd is that Ohnogi ended the story at the final showdown with Bodolza, while in the SDF TV show he was brought in to cover the post-war arc for Kawamori et al who had gone on to plan the DYRL movie. In any case, I see a striking difference between Hikaru's kind of passive attitude towards Misa in the series and the way he professes his unswaying love for her in the movie (written by Sukehiro Tomita). As with Frontier, the final episodes of the SDF series show that the main characters and the resolution of their relationship have no real impact on the broader story (in the case of SDF, the Kamjin attack). If indeed this is a signature of Ohnogi's writing, then it is interesting indeed, though a shame.

[edited for clarity]

Okay...it's a little OT, but this is the second time I've come across a mention of novelzations written by Ohnogi. The only ones I've been able to find are by Toshiki Inoue...even Japanese Wikipedia and Amazon.co.jp only list him as writing "Misa Hayase: White Reminiscnces." Am I missing something...?

The stuff about Ohnogi's wife came (I believe) from the Frontier "liner notes" posted on Macross Generation, which Magnuskn kindly translated into English and posted on animesuki.

[Zinjo]

I liked what Ohnogi did with Sheryl.

The show's character development was fairly bland until Sheryl began to go through her transformation. I'd only wished Alto and Ranka were able to get similar treatment. Both characters came across as somewhat two dimensional anime fare.

A writer understands that what engages an audience is evolution of a show's characters. Kawamori is a great at envisioning a story's outline, but is not the best at the details. With the exception of Plus (which he had the time to really develop over time) M7 and M0 were both a series of events with characters thrown in.

The love story in Zero was not developed enough to be believable and M7 seemed to have gotten away from him, due to that show's directorial vision.

Regardless of how some might regard Ohnogi's writing ability, he does understand how to develop characters better than the staff writers on the show did. Unfortunately he was brought in so late that Ranka and Alto didn't benefit from the same character development that Sheryl had. That is the principle reason why I like Sheryl the best, mainly due to her evolution from a self absorbed diva to a humble musician. How she was shown to be an insecure child, desperate for genuine affection from another, who wasn't some drooling fanboy.

I was so hoping Ranka would develop more but Ohnogi hit in on the head, when he described that her character was so sheltered that she was not able to fully develop as a person during the course of the series. Alto had hints of greater development but nothing really materialized.

Michael and Klan were the greatest casualties of a lack of development. Yet again, the potential was there, but never really developed, possibly due the several throw away episodes Vegeta described.

In retrospect, IMHO it is unfortunate the Ohnogi was not brought in to the writing team from the beginning. I suspect the story would have been much more in the spirit of SDFM as a character drama with transforming aircraft as opposed to transforming aircraft with characters.

Edited March 7, 2009 by Zinjo

[Gubaba]

I liked what Ohnogi did with Sheryl.

The show's character development was fairly bland until Sheryl began to go through her transformation. I'd only wished Alto and Ranka were able to get similar treatment. Both characters came across as somewhat two dimensional anime fare.

A writer understands that what engages an audience is evolution of a show's characters. Kawamori is a great at envisioning a story's outline, but is not the best at the details. With the exception of Plus (which he had the time to really develop over time) M7 and M0 were both a series of events with characters thrown in.

The love story in Zero was not developed enough to be believable and M7 seemed to have gotten away from him, due to that show's directorial vision.

Regardless of how some might regard Ohnogi's writing ability, he does understand how to develop characters better than the staff writers on the show did. Unfortunately he was brought in so late that Ranka and Alto didn't benefit from the same character development that Sheryl had. That is the principle reason why I like Sheryl the best, mainly due to her evolution from a self absorbed diva to a humble musician. How she was shown to be an insecure child, desperate for genuine affection from another, who wasn't some drooling fanboy.

I was so hoping Ranka would develop more but Ohnogi hit in on the head, when he described that her character was so sheltered that she was not able to fully develop as a person during the course of the series. Alto had hints of greater development but nothing really materialized.

Michael and Klan were the greatest casualties of a lack of development. Yet again, the potential was there, but never really developed, possibly due the several throw away episodes Vegeta described.

In retrospect, IMHO it is unfortunate the Ohnogi was not brought in to the writing team from the beginning. I suspect the story would have been much more in the spirit of SDFM as a character drama with transforming aircraft as opposed to transforming aircraft with characters.

I agree with almost everything you said, but...

A couple of nitpicky caveats: First, I would credit the successful drama of Plus more to the writer (Keiko Nobumoto, who also wrote a lot of the best Cowboy Bebop episodes) than to Kawamori. And second, Ohnogi was the main writer for Macross Zero, so any problems with the love triangle can most likely be laid at his feet.

[Zinjo]

I agree with almost everything you said, but...

A couple of nitpicky caveats: First, I would credit the successful drama of Plus more to the writer (Keiko Nobumoto, who also wrote a lot of the best Cowboy Bebop episodes) than to Kawamori. And second, Ohnogi was the main writer for Macross Zero, so any problems with the love triangle can most likely be laid at his feet.

I stand corrected regarding Zero. Thanks for the info...

I did like the one episode Kawamori wrote for Bebop. It wasn't related to the overall story at all, but I enjoyed it nonetheless...

Edited March 7, 2009 by Zinjo

[Gubaba]

I stand corrected regarding Zero. Thanks for the info...

It's kind of amazing, though, isn't it? The man responsible for arguably* the most lackluster love triangles in Macross history is also responsible for the most passionately debated one...

*The word "arguably" has been added on the advice of my lawyers, who inform me that I will get ripped to shreds by people unconvinced by Basara-Mylene-Gamlin and Ishtar-Hibiki-Sylvie if I don't include it.

[Killer Robot]

It's kind of amazing, though, isn't it? The man responsible for arguably* the most lackluster love triangles in Macross history is also responsible for the most passionately debated one...

*The word "arguably" has been added on the advice of my lawyers, who inform me that I will get ripped to shreds by people unconvinced by Basara-Mylene-Gamlin and Ishtar-Hibiki-Sylvie if I don't include it.

Hey, maybe we should do the crazy thing and derail the thread into several pages of arguing whether Basara should have chosen Mylene or Gamlin.

[Gubaba]

Hey, maybe we should do the crazy thing and derail the thread into several pages of arguing whether Basara should have chosen Mylene or Gamlin.

Enh, been there, done that.

Instead, let's argue about which of the main SDFM Episode writers got the best tribute...

1. Hiroshi Ohnogi got a city named after him.

2. Kenichi Matsuzaki got a (very unflattering) character based on him.

3. Sukehiro Tomita got to write A LOT more Macross.

And of course, Shoji Kawamori got the whole franchise, so let's leave him out of the running.

[Renato]

Okay...it's a little OT, but this is the second time I've come across a mention of novelzations written by Ohnogi. The only ones I've been able to find are by Toshiki Inoue...even Japanese Wikipedia and Amazon.co.jp only list him as writing "Misa Hayase: White Reminiscnces." Am I missing something...

Thanks for clearing up the stuff about his wife. As for the novelizations, I guess they're not by him, after all, then? In that case FinalVegeta has gone at least one fact wrong. Sorry I just assumed they were written by Ohnogi because I had no reason to doubt FV and my books were in the UK. Having said that, I do have on my shelf with my right now the Orguss novelizations, published in the same format which are by Inoue as well. So I guess that clears up the "oddity" I felt when I was wondering how come Ohnogi made no mention of the post-war era in the novels, which he had helped create in the series.

[Final Vegeta]

The real question is: who's to blame for Brera's "casual" suit?

There's a trick: these days a lot of male characters are cosplayed by girls (and vice versa). I guess it was just some kind of prankster on fangirls

By the way, you can already know what kind of character is supposed to be Brera by looking at him. Kawamori has his stock characters, and he got two main villains. One has white hair and red clothes, and enjoys destruction but in the end becomes a tragic character. Kamjin, Dilandau and Nora are such kind of character. Even Gigile fits, although it is graphically different because maybe Kawamori gave Mikimoto leeway. The other villain has green hair and blue clothes, and is the former friend turned villain. Guld, Folken and Toma are such kind of characters. Obviously there are slight variations in the respective show, but the basics are these.

As you can see Brera was the best of both worlds: outside the cockpit he has green hair and blue clothes, inside he got white hair and red clothes (actually more purple, but it's not important). As brother of Ranka he is the former friend, but in episode 9 he was clearly the one who enjoys destruction. Just an aside though.

Final Vegeta, I've been trying to come up with a response to your thoughts, but I really can't...there's too much speculation and too many assumptions, and I can't quite get a firm grasp on the facts here.

I am sorry, as MisaForever made me notice a lot of logical connections remained inside my head. Let's just try to reason it out though. I will try just one example.

Ranka was the Little Queen, being able to communicate with the Vajra thanks to her intestinal bacterium. Also she was the daughter of Ranshe Mei, who worked with Grace.

With Ohnogi, in the last part of the anime, Sheryl suddenly became able to communicate with the Vajra thanks to Vajra's bacterium. To top that, she was also revealed as the granddaughter of Mao Nome, who worked with Grace.

Sheryl's connections to the plot became an almost verbatim copy of those of Ranka. Do you agree? Fact is, were those as deep as Ranka's? Ranka had a past tied to the Vajra. When Vajra are killed she feels pain; does Sheryl relate to the Vajra in any meaningful way, or experience pain when they are killed? We knew what Ranshe Mei thought of Grace, but what did Mao think of her? Didn't this all feel like it was tacked on at the last minute? Isn't Sheryl stealing what should be the job of Ranka? (this last thing is a trait of Mary Sue)

Now, I think you can at least agree that even if Sheryl was gone the plot would have advanced without swaying an inch, and it was not like the authors had no idea where the anime was going.

If you don't like what Ohnogi did with her, fine.

It's not like I didn't like what Ohnogi did with Ranka. I dislike what he did with Alto, with Brera, with Ranka, with Sheryl, with the love triangle ("I am ill, I win"), with Michael's last words, with the plot, with the tight writing and even with the VF-25 VS VF-27's rivalry. And that was personal, look at my avatar.

Personally, when I watch an anime, usually I don't have a favorite character. You know, you can't have the same character in all the scenes, so it's best to find satisfaction from everything. That's why I want all characters made of win, and that's why I am insulting Ohnogi, absurdly hoping the fellows who translate the favorite character poll bring my words to Kawamori, together with my advice for him to trust himself more.

But it really seems to be unwarrented to accuse him of betraying Kawamori, or suggest that he's personally unappealing. Unless you're a close confidant of the Macross F staff, you really have no way of knowing this.

Well, Kawamori wanted to do a great series. Ohnogi blasted in, took the role of the main writer, asked for free hand on the love triangle, and then he even admitted he didn't know what to do with Ranka, which is the character more important to the plot, and also important to the love triangle. Artistically this is a betrayal. It's like in Kissdum where the director told everyone he knew what he was doing and then flee after the first episodes. It's not like Ohnogi was there to improve the series, he was there to ship his favorite character. But he didn't tell Kawamori that, he boastfully told him he was gonna make improvements. And I can't stand people who say something and then do the opposite.

Likewise, are you sure that the "Minmay can't talk to Hikaru, and Misa's cleaning up his place" situation is solely Ohnogi's doing? if so, where did you find this information?

I am not sure that part was Ohnogi's doing, but as I said if in most of the anime he works in there are similar patterns, than there's a strong case against him. So it's just a process of pattern matching.

Final Vegeta, I admire all the work and thought you've put into this thread and in trying to stimulate interesting behind-the-scenes production debate, which I always enjoy more than discussing the actual stories of the shows.

I have a question, though, where did you get the information surrounding his private life, ie the way he married his wife etc? I don't think I have read about that.

Thanks for your appreciation, Renato. I suggest you read things written here (don't diffuse it too much) (yeah, I know, Shaloom Shaloom Shaloom ). The url was posted in the news thread times ago (by the way Magnuskn, are there updates?).

As for Ohnogi involvements with the novels, and the unsung writers of Macross, I can only speculate Ohnogi was some kind of liaison between the various members of the Studio Nue, especially asking advice from Nue's experts of technical and sci-fi jargon like Matsuzaki (maybe even Ohnogi was one), or was the one who wrote scenarios (like he is credited to have done in other works). In the link above, for example, IIRC it is stated Ohnogi was writing scripts for SDFM and then bringing them to Matsuzaki for approval. And both the interview I posted at the start of the thread and the above source agree Ohnogi did intervene on some (but not all) novels of Macross writing dialogues, so I guess this has to be accepted as a fact.

If indeed this is a signature of Ohnogi's writing, then it is interesting indeed, though a shame.

And don't you agree that Minmay and Ranka not talking to anyone other than their close relatives looked weird? Their sudden social isolation didn't make any sense.

FV