Most 'USEFUL' mode 'OVERALL' of all the Variable Fight

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Bummer again - Most 'USEFUL' mode 'OVERALL' of all the Variable FightERS, Out of all the Macross OVA's / Series / and Movies please choose oNE.

Gerwalk is pretty useful, quick stop maneouvers, hands for ripping apart things, saving chicks/idols and superior officers, holding gunpods....

Pretty handy imo! So my choice was Gerwalk. A happy medium for mine.

Rephrase the question - Out of all the series, movies, and OVAs, which mode was put to best use imo?

Edited December 10, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie

[taksraven]

How can GERWALK lose this poll. I'm not saying that the poll is stupid but it is pretty obvious.

Actually you forgot that "half gerwalk with just the legs hanging out to either brake quickly or land in VTOL mode" that is used from time to time in various macross series. That one seems pretty useful too.

Taksraven

[Morpheus]

:huh:

I prefer fighter, it can perform fast hit and run tactics, high speed ramming (gulding) when needed, M3 (Macross missile massacre).

[ruskiiVFaussie]

How can GERWALK lose this poll. I'm not saying that the poll is stupid but it is pretty obvious.

Actually you forgot that "half gerwalk with just the legs hanging out to either brake quickly or land in VTOL mode" that is used from time to time in various macross series. That one seems pretty useful too.

Taksraven

Still Gerwalk, half Gerwalk whatever.

Out of all the series, movies, and OVAs, which mode was put to best use?

[RD Blade]

I say Gerwalk although it's not my favorite.

[adrianop]

I voted GERWALK cuz its my favorite mode kthnxbai.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Battroid

It has flight capabilities, like the other modes. While it's not as good, it's the most maneuverable, since it tends to hover in one spot.

It has the entire mech combat aspect. This is the essence of the mecha anime: Giant robots fighting other giant robots.

It has ground combat capabilites. This is what differentiates it from a fighter. It can provide light artillery roles that a plane can't.

Finally, fear factor. The thought of a 45-foot tall metal man is enough to scare off most people's attacks. Would you fight something of the sort? Can you seriously tell me that if it was your enemy, you would try to fight it? Yet GERWALK looks like a very strange fighter jet, and there's little to no fear of fighters, as a flak field will take one out very quickly. You know not of the abilities of this metal man, nor what weapons to use on it. The Unknown is the scariest of all.

[adrianop]

Battroid

It has flight capabilities, like the other modes. While it's not as good, it's the most maneuverable, since it tends to hover in one spot.

It has the entire mech combat aspect. This is the essence of the mecha anime: Giant robots fighting other giant robots.

It has ground combat capabilites. This is what differentiates it from a fighter. It can provide light artillery roles that a plane can't.

Finally, fear factor. The thought of a 45-foot tall metal man is enough to scare off most people's attacks. Would you fight something of the sort? Can you seriously tell me that if it was your enemy, you would try to fight it? Yet GERWALK looks like a very strange fighter jet, and there's little to no fear of fighters, as a flak field will take one out very quickly. You know not of the abilities of this metal man, nor what weapons to use on it. The Unknown is the scariest of all.

but but Ill be popular with the ladies when I rescue them with Gerwalk and all of them will fall in love with me. Its quite 'USEFUL' for the guys.

Seriously though Gerwalk is the "Jack of all trades" between Fighter and Battroid. You get some advantages of both modes in one. You are quite right in terms of fear factor of the Battroids, but only works for small rebels, early civil war days. Against a seriously equipped enemy (Human/Zentran/Vajra/Protodevln) it doesnt mean much.

Edited December 10, 2008 by adrianop

[taksraven]

Early days yet, but I didn't think that Fighter mode would end up running second.

Taksraven

[Mr March]

I'm pretty sure Max Jenius proved that there is no superior mode and that transformation itself is the greatest "mode". The whole Bruce Lee thing; be fluid, like water

[Gubaba]

Battroid, man.

No battroid = no Basara.

And I know for a fact that E*V*E*R*Y*O*N*E on Macrossworld jes' LUUUUUUUUUVS to listen to his song.

[ruskiiVFaussie]

It should go without saying that all modes make up the ultimate force that is the variable fighter, but this is just a fun poll/thread asking

which mode do you think was put to the better use. All things should be considered, for Gerwalk it can be looks, tactics (like Roy vs DD 1st battle)

importance (Gerwalk saving Misa twice, Minmay (DYRL? and sought of in the TV series (lol) and Roy protected her as well! and Mao etc etc)

I'd say Max (SDF/DYRL?/M7) put Battroid and Fighter mode to equally good use and Gerwalk not far behind, but we all know Max is King.

Edited December 10, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie

[kensei]

I'm pretty sure Max Jenius proved that there is no superior mode and that transformation itself is the greatest "mode". The whole Bruce Lee thing; be fluid, like water

Amen. Transformation is the point of having a variable fighter.

[crescens]

fighter :> allows the pilot to attack air/ground target, high speed and evasion >.< i think so at least

battroid and gerwalk are good but still fighter is the most useful i guess...

[VFTF1]

I'm pretty sure Max Jenius proved that there is no superior mode and that transformation itself is the greatest "mode". The whole Bruce Lee thing; be fluid, like water

What Mr. March said is what popped into my mind as well.

Initially, I was pretty set on voting for Gerwalk for the same reasons as RusskieAussie, but then I suddenly remember how Max shocked everyone when he went ape poop in battroid mode demonstrating that it actually can do everything that the fighter mode is supposed to do only better.

So...

The answer is:

It depends on the pilot.

Pete

[crescens]

E*V*E*R*Y*O*N*E on Macrossworld jes' LUUUUUUUUUVS to listen to his song.

damn i see a new poll in this xD

[VFTF1]

QUOTE (Gubaba @ Dec 9 2008, 10:35 PM) *

E*V*E*R*Y*O*N*E on Macrossworld jes' LUUUUUUUUUVS to listen to his song.

damn i see a new poll in this xD

No need for a poll there. After all, like Gubaba said EVERYONE luvs Bassara

RIGHT?!?!?!

[crescens]

No need for a poll there. After all, like Gubaba said EVERYONE luvs Bassara

RIGHT?!?!?!

im sure some haters will pop out but hey... i love Basara ;]

@topic.

Fighter 1st place pls ;] i always saw battroid and gerwalk as support modes for situations where fighter "no can do"... >__>"

So my choice was Gerwalk.

you're just a GERWALK addict that's all

Edited December 10, 2008 by crescens

[Ignacio Ocamica]

Gerwalk

[SchizophrenicMC]

No offense, but Basara is actually on my "I don't care about these characters" list... I'm the only one, it seems. I didn't like 7 much, though. It lacked sense that the others had.

Fighter 1st place pls ;] i always saw battroid and gerwalk as support modes for situations where fighter "no can do"... >__>"

If Fighter was the most useful, we wouldn't have VARIABLE fighters. It's fastest, but least useful. It can't hover, it can't walk, it can't save the lady... Battroid, GERWALK, then Fighter. There's a reason it was like that on the transformation selector panel.

_______

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B--G--F |

Edited December 10, 2008 by SchizophrenicMC

[VFTF1]

Another thing to note - now that I think about it- Battroid, despite ostensibly being good for hand to hand combat...actually sucks at it - or at least that is what it seems like...

I mean - Hikaru was totally devastated by Breetai's bare hands (as Misa liked to point out when scolding him)... so the battroid turned out to be not very effective in actual hand to hand combat.

The only time I remember a battroid being used WELL in hand to hand was in Macross Zero - by Nora - who managed to perform what appeared like a roundhouse kick against a VF-OA in gerwalk mode.

Also - Max's use of the 1A in SDFMTV was of course great - but he used the battroid not in hand to hand but in ariel combat and with a gunpod - so...doesn't really count as hand to hand.

The most Hand to hand that we ever saw was - if I'm not mistaken - in Macross Zero (battle in the city between 19 and 21) and then a WHOLE LOT in Macross Frontier, where Valkyrie freely engaged in knife fights with the Vajra...

So the hand to hand record of the battroids seems mixed - although, it's also hard to say because the battles in Space Wars I were huge - so there might have been much more hand to hand going on....

But remember - another good example - when the Zendradi attacked that city to get he Micloning devise, they ripped Battroids apart like paper - and again the battroids didn't seem very effective in actual hand to hand combat.

When you think about - this isn't surprising... I mean - the actuall hydraulic construction of a battroid probably does not make it as swift as Bruce Lee in fighting hand to hand - and I can't really see a Battroid "kicking" anybody because of the potential damage to its' engines or feul lines - here the SV-51 seemed to be very well designed because the legs had "claws" - clearly serving NO PURPOSE EXCEPT TO ENHANCE BATTROID mode fighting skills...

Battroid is an interesting idea - but in practice, the results seem to have been very mixed. The only fluid battroid fighting we've really seen is in Plus...

Pete

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Excellent post Pete, that's why this thread was created.

We have to forgive poor hikaru for his melee with Bretai, Breetai was a machine, a giant of a machine, and was clearly instense!

Misa was a harsh woman before she got some...

Macross Plus, we saw some great BvB (battroid vs Battroid) hand to hand. Hope in the next series planned we see some more BvB action!

Edited December 10, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie

[Killer Robot]

I'd say Plus and Frontier are better references to look to for battroid fighting than SDFM anyway. However successful the VF-1 was, at the time it was deployed variable fighters, were not a mature technology and had not been meaningfully tested in combat against purely alien-derived designs, the Zentradi themselves included. In addition, the pilots and commanders were in a new situation throughout SW1 and were writing their tactical manual as they went along half the time.

In light of that, I see Hikaru's first experience fighting a Zentradi commander hand to hand as no more representative of mature variable fighter piloting than the fiasco of the Macross first attempting to take off from Earth and fold past the Moon was representative of capital ship tactics: the equipment and the humans alike were untested and unprepared. I think it wouldn't be likely to see the full potential of variable fighters in all modes before post-SW1 designs were deployed and the experiences of the first generation of Valkyrie pilots and the Zentradi tactical manuals were formalized into a new doctrine.

[RD Blade]

When you think about - this isn't surprising... I mean - the actuall hydraulic construction of a battroid probably does not make it as swift as Bruce Lee in fighting hand to hand - and I can't really see a Battroid "kicking" anybody because of the potential damage to its' engines or feul lines -

There was a Macross Saga episode where Max in his VF-1A Battroid kicks a Zentradi knocking him out. Later in the episode his battroid appears wearing that same Zentradi's coat and hat.

Edit: grammar... WTH??

Edited December 10, 2008 by RD Blade

[crescens]

>_>

still take a look at planes we got ( f16's , su27's and all the rest >_> they arent Valks yet they're very useful battroid and gerwalk were meant for fighting in tought terrain, that's why im holding to my version that fighter is the most useful and that other modes are support likee >_>" but i can't not agree with Mr. March actually... depends on the pilot >_< the more skill you got, the bigger balls you show while piloting ;]

[ruskiiVFaussie]

There was a Macross Saga episode where Max in his VF-1A Battroid kicks a Zentradi knocking him out. Later in the episode his battroid is appears wearing that same Zentradi's coat and hat.

And that KICK was NASTY and FAST, i cringe everytime when i see that poor Zentran getting winded like that.

Thanks for the reminder.

[VFTF1]

This is all logical, Killer Robot- but it also brings up an interesting paradox:

On the one hand, the Zendradi in SDFM envied the humans for their repair techniques, and kept their own ships (and presumambly mecha) in greatdisrepair.

On the other hand, Klan Klan praises the Zendradi in Frontier for having mecha that will keep on running for thousands of years without needing to update it, or improve the technology. The Protoculture apparently prefered this kind of durable mecha to a constantly upgraded sort which would present new problems to deal with?

Now - this is interesting to me - why di the Protoculture not develop variable mecha? Why is this a human invention? And is variable mecha better or worse than non-variable (yet still adaptive) mecha? Zendradi mecha were clearly adaptive to multiple environments without being variable.

I always thought the only reason the battroid mode was concieved was LITERALLY for hand to hand combat with flesh and blood giant Zendradi presumambly not inside their mecha?

Pete

Edit:

There was a Macross Saga episode where Max in his VF-1A Battroid kicks a Zentradi knocking him out. Later in the episode his battroid is appears wearing that same Zentradi's coat and hat.

But the kick was delivered to a flesh and blood opponent - so there wasn't much risk that Max would damage his thruster/feet?

Also - Russkie - was Brettai really a machine??

Edited December 10, 2008 by VFTF1

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Bad ass mutha trucka machine! Don't play, you know what i mean.

Isamu and the VF-11 equipped with bayonet was another great nod to Battroid.

I'd imagine the UN Spacy gave pilots some old school bayonet katas as well to fight up-rising Zentran.

[RD Blade]

But the kick was delivered to a flesh and blood opponent - so there wasn't much risk that Max would damage his thruster/feet?

Very good point.

[taksraven]

I KNOW, LETS BUILD A PLANE THAT CAN GO INTO ALL THREE MODES!!!

Oh, wait........

Taksraven

[ChronoReverse]

I doubt there's much worry about damaging the engines too much with kicks. The OT engines are almost certainly more durable that the conventional engines of the VF-0 and in Zero you get to see Roy manhandle Shin VF-0 to VF-0 during training (see 12:50 Zero episode 2). It's hard on the systems but everything the valkyries do would be tough on them.

The real issue is exactly as Zero highlighted it: the pilots of the valkyries simply weren't used to hand-to-hand combat. Hikaru was a stunt pilot. He might be able to pull off fancy flying under pressure but where's he going to pull out martial arts (and I don't mean just the stereotypical Asian fighting styles when I use this term) from? It's should've been a given that Britai, an extremely powerful hth fighter even in Zentraidi terms, would dominate him.

Edited December 11, 2008 by ChronoReverse

[ruskiiVFaussie]

And how! (re: Breetai)

I'd say Post SDF, the battroids got alot tougher, Guld and Isamu really kicked the sh^t out of each others Battroid, with almost more

force than what the VF-1's had to endure (the DYRL? version of Kamjin just flattened Roy's 1S head with ease, chest was ripped apart..)

Kamjin was pissed.

Edited December 11, 2008 by ruskiiVFaussie

[Gubaba]

I doubt there's much worry about damaging the engines too much with kicks. The OT engines are almost certainly more durable that the conventional engines of the VF-0 and in Zero you get to see Roy manhandle Shin VF-0 to VF-0 during training (see 12:50 Zero episode 2). It's hard on the systems but everything the valkyries do would be tough on them.

The real issue is exactly as Zero highlighted it: the pilots of the valkyries simply weren't used to hand-to-hand combat. Hikaru was a stunt pilot. He might be able to pull off fancy flying under pressure but where's he going to pull out martial arts (and I don't mean just the stereotypical Asian fighting styles when I use this term) from? It's should've been a given that Britai, an extremely powerful hth fighter even in Zentraidi terms, would dominate him.

As others have alluded to, I think one of the main problems is one of reflexes...Michael's "emoting" VF-25 notwithstanding, a Zentradi soldier will always have better reflexes than a guy pulling levers and stepping on pedals. Battroid vs. battroid always seems more successful than battroid vs. Zentradi.

But my main point was that Hikaru has had A LOT of training by the time he fights with Britai. I have to wonder if the limitations of the battroid weren't showing in that fight (and in Focker vs. Kamjin in DYRL).

But then, if Britai (and Kamjin) had pulled that head-crushing move on a live opponent, would his skull have been driven into his spine as thoroughly as the battroid's head got smashed? If not, then the battroid is simply structurally inferior, and can't engage in the hand-to-hand combat it was presumably designed for. If so, well...then the battroid is perhaps better than a Zentradi, who I assume couldn't fight very well with a bashed-in cranium.

[ChronoReverse]

Well, if the VF-0 was doing bloody flip kicks already, the system can't be that bad. In any case, there's more indication that it's the pilots being unable to make full use of the battroid than the other way around. If the battroid don't have good enough agility and reflexes then it won't be able to perform those things even if the pilot were better.

If Zero didn't exist, I could agree that the system was not as good in SDFM and got better by the time Plus rolled along but Zero clearly shows how well the machines can fight in melee.

[Gubaba]

Well, if the VF-0 was doing bloody flip kicks already, the system can't be that bad. In any case, there's more indication that it's the pilots being unable to make full use of the battroid than the other way around. If the battroid don't have good enough agility and reflexes then it won't be able to perform those things even if the pilot were better.

If Zero didn't exist, I could agree that the system was not as good in SDFM and got better by the time Plus rolled along but Zero clearly shows how well the machines can fight in melee.

Good point.

(Of course, we all know the REAL reason is that animation technology improved between 1982 and 2002, but that's no fun. )