Macross Zero

[Aegis!]

OK , maybe this shouldn´t be here as an isolated thread but posting it elsewhere would be a waste.

Anyway , is it just me or does Macross Zero lead to believe there´ll be some kind of follow up ?

There are just too many things that insinuate some kind of future development , it´s not a simply case of things being left half-done but actually a trully tactable feeling of something that´ll be developed further along the time.

I don´t know , Zero has certainly been THE only series in macross that´s has left me with this feelings even after months of watching the whole series.

I just wanted to know if anyone felt the same way and if somebody wants to elaborate on this

[Duke Togo]

OK , maybe this shouldn´t be here as an isolated thread but posting it elsewhere would be a waste.

Anyway , is it just me or does Macross Zero lead to believe there´ll be some kind of follow up ?

Yes, its called 'Super Dimension Fortress Macross". Perhaps you've seen it.

[bsu legato]

OK , maybe this shouldn´t be here as an isolated thread but posting it elsewhere would be a waste.

Anyway , is it just me or does Macross Zero lead to believe there´ll be some kind of follow up ?

Yes, its called 'Super Dimension Fortress Macross". Perhaps you've seen it.

Zing!

[bandit29]

OK , maybe this shouldn´t be here as an isolated thread but posting it elsewhere would be a waste.

Anyway , is it just me or does Macross Zero lead to believe there´ll be some kind of follow up ?

Yes, its called 'Super Dimension Fortress Macross". Perhaps you've seen it.

LMAO

[Aegis!]

OK , maybe this shouldn´t be here as an isolated thread but posting it elsewhere would be a waste.

Anyway , is it just me or does Macross Zero lead to believe there´ll be some kind of follow up ?

Yes, its called 'Super Dimension Fortress Macross". Perhaps you've seen it.

Mate that´s gotta be the funniest joke on the board for the last year , congrats

Anyway , a follow up doesn´t necesarilly mean a direct sequel ( SDF Macross) it can be anything , I´m not gonna especulate about what kind of sequel it should be cause there´s been TONS of threads about it.

I repeat , this ain´t a thread for posting your ideas on a new series , is just for the sake of sharing our thoughts on the matter of Macross Zero production process and resulting outcome.

We know for a fact Bandai gave the production tea a load of money for this OVA series, they got Adobe newest software for the CG work and all that , but why did they give macross such a high budget without expecting something complete , like a whole line projects ( like macross Plus , OVA+ Movie ).

If they only wanted to make an isolated OVA series they could´ve made a plain and simple OVA series with the same old elements without including the Protoculture or the Unification and Anti-UN war in it.

[Agent ONE]

No.

[pfunk]

, as far as toys and stuff goes, I think they have what they want. for me, I dont know if it would make sence in the time line, unless they came out with a season long series (same timeline, diferent storys), but after whats allready out, I dont see it happening. it would be like putting it in reverse

[macplus]

IMHO, Kawamori is not interested in Macross anymore, I wouldn't put my money on a sequel, prequel or whatever....

[ewilen]

Nope, I don't see it. If anything, the mysteries and questions at the end of MZero are what make it complete, because one of the themes of the story is "No matter how much we think we know, we don't have all the answers."

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

The rest is history: Anti-UN were the biggest threat to UN and they lost the fight for the technology. That's what it was about to me. It kind of felt like macross plus where only a few ace pilots were the focus on the story and thier personal backstory was what fans wanted fleshed out. The mysterious technology should remain that way just like in the xfiles where the government has all the secrets locked away in hiding inside a massive underground vault somewhere never to be seen by the audience but worked on in secret by top scientists who only dare blow the whistle on thier death bed.

In the real world maybe it's like that area 51 place where the government tries reverse engineering the alien tech to make thier own secret craft? I keep getting reminded of that old Megadeth song "Hangar 18"

Edited March 10, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Hurin]

I repeat , this ain´t a thread for posting your ideas on a new series , is just for the sake of sharing our thoughts on the matter of Macross Zero production process and resulting outcome.

Having read this, I now have no idea what we're supposed to be talking about.

H

[Duke Togo]

I repeat , this ain´t a thread for posting your ideas on a new series , is just for the sake of sharing our thoughts on the matter of Macross Zero production process and resulting outcome.

Having read this, I now have no idea what we're supposed to be talking about.

H

Macross Fight Club

[azrael]

Anyway , is it just me or does Macross Zero lead to believe there´ll be some kind of follow up ?

Kawamori has enough work to deal with right now. Plus he probably has other projects he wants to work on. I don't expect a follow-up until he had a chance to finish his current projects. And since his current work has yet to pop up...he'll get to Macross when he gets to it.

[Desram]

Macross Zero really left me wanting more. It felt like it wasn't long/deep enough or something. We didn't really learn a whole lot about any of the characters. Another thing is the translation. I just started using ebay so this was the first "bad" translation I've been exposed to. It was funny, there were bad subs for the all but the last chapter, where they seemed better but with different problems (suddenly mao was being referred to as both male and shin's sister?). I really wish they could get a North American version out... Bah

[pfunk]

Macross Zero really left me wanting more. It felt like it wasn't long/deep enough or something. We didn't really learn a whole lot about any of the characters. Another thing is the translation. I just started using ebay so this was the first "bad" translation I've been exposed to. It was funny, there were bad subs for the all but the last chapter, where they seemed better but with different problems (suddenly mao was being referred to as both male and shin's sister?). I really wish they could get a North American version out... Bah

Fan sub is Good, I agree with the character aspect, but, oh well

[Mr March]

Macross Fight Club

"You are not your fricking protoculture!"

[Keith]

I say Zero is the prelude to a big epic Macross movie/OVA finale.

[Graham]

With the popularity of Macross in Japan sinking faster than the Titanic, I think it's going to be a long time (if ever) before we see another Macross sequel.

Graham

(the MW prophet of doom)

[Keith]

With the popularity of Macross in Japan sinking faster than the Titanic, I think it's going to be a long time (if ever) before we see another Macross sequel.

Graham

(the MW prophet of doom)

Considering Kawamori seems to have little trouble doing new shows, I doubt Big West would turn him down if he wanted to do another Macross sequel. While popularity isn't at a high right now, Macross has never really slouched in sales. Besides, BW promised us that "MACROSS WILL CONTINUE IN THE FUTURE!"

[hellohikaru]

If another macross show ever gets produced are we going to expect 2 episodes a year like Macross Zero ?

[Final Vegeta]

Very likely, although I am fairly sure there won't be any characters of Macross Zero in it (this doesn't exclude characters from other Macross series).

The only thing is that for this new Macross series Kawamori will be avalaible only some 5 years from now.

The rest is history: Anti-UN were the biggest threat to UN and they lost the fight for the technology.

They don't exactly lost it. Some of it will be simply bought or traded from the UN. Corporate world has its own rules: "enemy" can mean even "customer", as in "win-win competition". It may sound weird but if you really know history you see it happened a lot. Also banks have a role in this, but it's another story.

In the real world maybe it's like that area 51 place where the government tries reverse engineering the alien tech to make thier own secret craft?

We Italians have something like that. It is called "Villa Certosa". Built without any reguard for urbanistic plans, it is not accessible even by magistrates since it was invoked the secret of state on its construction. Rumored to have a dock for submarines. It is owned by our Prime Minister Berlusconi. No aliens whatsoever, in fact, but likely to have hosted mafia men. So banal I envy US alien stories (despite I think most of them are planted by Operation Mockingbird).

FV

[pfunk]

With the popularity of Macross in Japan sinking faster than the Titanic, I think it's going to be a long time (if ever) before we see another Macross sequel.

Graham

(the MW prophet of doom)

not sweet,

but i did see your in Minmeys panties

[Ido]

Very likely, although I am fairly sure there won't be any characters of Macross Zero in it (this doesn't exclude characters from other Macross series).

The only thing is that for this new Macross series Kawamori will be avalaible only some 5 years from now.

The rest is history: Anti-UN were the biggest threat to UN and they lost the fight for the technology.

They don't exactly lost it. Some of it will be simply bought or traded from the UN. Corporate world has its own rules: "enemy" can mean even "customer", as in "win-win competition". It may sound weird but if you really know history you see it happened a lot. Also banks have a role in this, but it's another story.

In the real world maybe it's like that area 51 place where the government tries reverse engineering the alien tech to make thier own secret craft?

We Italians have something like that. It is called "Villa Certosa". Built without any reguard for urbanistic plans, it is not accessible even by magistrates since it was invoked the secret of state on its construction. Rumored to have a dock for submarines. It is owned by our Prime Minister Berlusconi. No aliens whatsoever, in fact, but likely to have hosted mafia men. So banal I envy US alien stories (despite I think most of them are planted by Operation Mockingbird).

FV

Our prime minister is such a shame for our country....sigh

We had SDF macross+ M-dyrl in the 80's, M+ and M7 in the 90's and i'm sure we'll have M0+ new tv series in the 2000/2010.

[Aegis!]

Having read this, I now have no idea what we're supposed to be talking about.

Just elaborate on the idea of whether Macross Zero´s finale was intentionally made to give a hint for a future series or not.

Kawamori has enough work to deal with right now. Plus he probably has other projects he wants to work on. I don't expect a follow-up until he had a chance to finish his current projects. And since his current work has yet to pop up...he'll get to Macross when he gets to it.

I was thinking about this while making this thread and I think I agree with that , Kawamori is totally busy with his Aquarion series and the other BONES production but looking at the contents and characteristics of those series I think it´s pretty safe to bet that Kawamori is closer to completing his life-long dream anime series ( mecha/fantasy/ecology themed series). This might be good news cause after those series Kawamori will be left free for making a faithful macross series.

Considering Kawamori seems to have little trouble doing new shows, I doubt Big West would turn him down if he wanted to do another Macross sequel. While popularity isn't at a high right now, Macross has never really slouched in sales. Besides, BW promised us that "MACROSS WILL CONTINUE IN THE FUTURE!"

The question is whether Kawamori wants to make a new series ; at this moment I think he doesn´t , but as said earlier it´s possible he´ll give macross another chance after his new series , I just hope we see something like Macross Plus happen again when the producers came to Kawamori for a new series and not the other way around.

[Keith]

I still don't see why you guys see Plus as anthing different from 7 & Zero...

[AlphaHX]

I still don't see why you guys see Plus as anthing different from 7 & Zero...

I'm going to leave out 7 cuz I havent seen enough it to say anything about it but as for Macross Zero and Plus, I find them very different. I dont know what exactly you are "comparing" but when comparing what I see, I find them quite different.

Edited March 11, 2005 by AlphaHX

[Ido]

I still don't see why you guys see Plus as anthing different from 7 & Zero...

Well, I see Macross plus as something "extra" that don't add very much to the macross story, Macross zero is a prequel and macross 7 is the SDF macross sequel, I think this is the reson becuase a lot of people complain about M0 and M7, and pratically nobody complain about macross plus that basically is a short oav/film with a nice good stand alone story and very cool VFs. When you go further in a series story there will be always someone who isn't happy.

[Aegis!]

I wasn´t exactly espeaking about Plus´s story or anything just the fact that , at time , Kawamori had absolutelly no plans of doing Plus or any Macross series for that matter but the production companies came to him asking for one , hence we have Plus ( and 7 too ).

What I was saying in my last post was that given the contents and overall project characteristics of Zero ( huge budget from Bandai and BW , Adobe´s support , etc..) it wouldn´t be strange if BW or Bandai came to Kawamori asking for a new series , just like what happened with Macross Plus.

It would be stupid to put such effort on an OVA series without something to follow it , why would such big companies give Kawamori the support he needed to do a series as he wanted ( Zero is clearly Kawamori´s personal take on macross ) if they didn´t expect something in return ( i.e. like Macross Plus and 7).

Think about it.

What else is Kawamori going to do after covering his favourintes themes in Aquarion and the Bones production ? he would have done everything he has ever wanted in his series from Escaflowne to Arjuna to Macross Zero , so he´ll have no excuses to do another series in this theme , what is he left with ? MACROSS , a faithful Macross series.

I´m hoping he´ll come back to macross once again , at least he doesn´t hate it as he did back then after DYRL when he promised no to do macross again.

Edited March 11, 2005 by Aegis!

[azrael]

...he would have done everything he has ever wanted in his series from Escaflowne to Arjuna to Macross Zero , so he´ll have no excuses to do another series in this theme...

Honestly, we don't know that. He may have other ideas that he didn't want to pitch to execs at the time. You can't say that once he's done with a series, that he'll go back to Macross. He may have other ideas that he wants to do that don't fit in Macross.

[Aegis!]

...he would have done everything he has ever wanted in his series from Escaflowne to Arjuna to Macross Zero , so he´ll have no excuses to do another series in this theme...

Honestly, we don't know that. He may have other ideas that he didn't want to pitch to execs at the time. You can't say that once he's done with a series, that he'll go back to Macross. He may have other ideas that he wants to do that don't fit in Macross.

Of course I don´t know that , that´s only what I hope for.

In any case , from what I´ve seen , Aquarion seems to convey his usual/favourite themes and thus is possible that it´ll be his most complete work to date , meaning he´ll have the chance to include all his ideas from earlier works ( spiritual energy , mechas , fantasy , ancient mythology, ecology ) in a more complete and thorough manner.

To this date Kawamori has only gotten the chance to do that only partially and selectively in his works ( escaflowne , Zero , Arjuna , Plus ).

Seeing that , it is more probable now than ever that he´ll be satisfied enough with his work to properly dedicate his time to macross.

Who knows , it all depends on BW and Bandai really , if they talk to kawamori like they did back with Macross Plus we might be able to see a new series in the upcoming years.

[azrael]

Seeing that , it is more probable now than ever that he´ll be satisfied enough with his work to properly dedicate his time to macross.

That's wishful thinking.....

Who knows , it all depends on BW and Bandai really , if they talk to kawamori like they did back with Macross Plus we might be able to see a new series in the upcoming years.

Emphasis on the "years". Just because he does a complete work, doesn't mean he'll come back to Macross. Again, it's wishful thinking. Not that there's anything bad about that, but I prefer to look at it objectively.

[Oihan]

I'd say it's safe to say we all wish and hope that Kawamori will do another Macross series/OVA/movie...I know I sure as hell do anyway. I hope he'd do it for his loyal Macross fan base, if not (at least) for his own love of the series. ...Assuming he does love Macross...but he'd have to, having created so many stories for Macross...I'd think anyway. Anyway, I'm gonna shutup now.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I was just wondering: Why doesn't somebody just clone all the ideas off macross and make thier own spinoff series with transforming mechs and space wars and singing idols?

Call it the attack of the birdmechs. They managed to pull it off with macross II and even though it's a fake universe that never existed people were at least interested enough in the mech designs. Just don't call it macross, don't steal the designs, and make up your own story and world. It's not like anyone here liked the direction macross 7 and macross zero were going towards anyway so I say get some other people to make a series similar to macross but with likable characters.

If they can make a tv series better than Mac 7 in designs and battles but with less sci-fantasy themes than zero, it would fill up a gap and be a way to appeal to those who have abandoned macross altogether. It wouldn't necessarily have to be planes but mechs that are designed to fight in ground wars (like the transformable destroids similar ot the Konig monster? Or the octos?) and be a good way to cash in on the forsaken macross fans waiting around for the next series. (if there ever is one)

I kind of feel as if the need to tell more of the macross world is now unecessary:

-the zentradi are now no longer giants, taking away the need for giant robots. Why not just have them battle in dedicated fighters? with dedicated transforming ground vehicles doing the stuff the battroids use to do? The zentradi had thier glaug, regults and Qrau etc, but they also had those fighter pods and had they known they were up against tiny people they could have easily fought on foot without mechs if they wanted to. (thier giant bodies are strong enough to even fight hand to hand against an unarmed vf1)

-singing idols are getting repetitive. (nobody liked basara and even if they did, if a new character like him appears I don't think I would like it that much)

-UN spacy have no equal in power that threatens thier super power. At least Mac II took the next logical step: brain controlled (maybe even drugged?) slaves taking control of the culture shock tactics and creating thier own. (this isn't too far from sharon apple's mind control and the hypnotic spell she had over the people)

-It's going to get to a point in the timeline where it will be too far into the future that there will have to be big changes and leaps in technology with further expansion of the world. Maybe by that time UN spacy has achieved universal peace (they already beat the Protodevlin the dealiest foes in the universe) and there is nothing left to tell. Without an enemy to fight, you can't justifiy the need to keep building military weapons when people have learned to live harmoniously. (unless there is another major 50/50 split in forces and beliefs like the Protoculture had or the UNG comes under the control of an evil force similar to the fall of the old republic in starwars )

-the use of spiritua weapons has almost made conventional (read "cool") weapons obsolete. By the end of macross 7 the main characters had replaced thier weapons with sound energy ones. I'm not so sure this idea is as cool or as appealing to many sci-fi fans as say, the use of force powers in starwars. If something isn't cool to people with a good explanation about how something works, people won't be as interested in following the series anymore imo.

If macross dies out and we don't see a new series for 10 years, would it hurt to see a clone of the ideas from macross into a new unrelated series? Is there ever going to be an "end" to the existing world that will close off the whole franchise forever? (similar to how there won't be anything after ep6 of starwars)

Edited March 13, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[azrael]

I was just wondering: Why doesn't somebody just clone all the ideas off macross and make thier own spinoff series with transforming mechs and space wars and singing idols?

The sad part about that is, Macross was a spinoff of all of the sci-fi/mech series of the time. Since Kawamori & co. were a bunch of anime/manga fans who loved sci-fi and mechs......well the end result was Macross.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Yeah but now it has mutated into mechs with mouths who fight cartoon monsters using sound, and bratty children and furry animals being the main characters.

More specuation:

I guess if there is a future war, it will involve biomechanical mechs (like those invid/inbit things in mospeada?) that are half lifeform and half robot that communicate using energy from the mind or something. Like a kind of "cyborg animal" that almost models real living things and grows by feeding off living material. I can totally imagine an organic cyborg that wirelessly activates antigravity machines and gives the apearance of magic abilties to telekinetically move objects around. We still don't understand why Sara can manipulate energy, and how those protodevlin creatures could lift cars in macross 7. No explanation is ever given.

And if people like Sara learned to harness a hidden ability of the mind (similar to the psychic abilities of those kids in akira: creating thier own energy barriers, floating rocks using the forces of nature, having the ability to predict the future etc) the PC may have had warriors not unlike that seen in dragon ball Z (shooting bursts of energy from thier own body? Lack of reliance on suits to roam around in space?) who basically the Zentradi were scared of when they saw images of Kaifun in the Little White Dragon movie in SDF:Macross which may have reminded them of something they saw a long time ago hidden in thier memory. (just how much information can exedol fit into that brain of his anyway?)

The link I see between Zero and Macross 7 is this: Sara could lift rocks with her mind, and the Protodevlin could do stuff like fly in space with energy barriers and all. Some of them altering the gravity to lift things and fling them around with thier own telekinetic ability. (no machinery involved) In SDF: Macross Exedol mentions "the legendary Power" when watching the Kaifun's movie; possibly reffering to something in an old prophecy or something of select humans/protoculture with super powers. (this could fit into the evolutionary path: the smartest, most "highly-evolved" ones were the most sensitive and least-understood, so they couldn't bear living amoungst thier own kind away from civilisation like the villagers in macross zero, or had to live like hermits in secret hideouts like the jedi knights)

I stick by my old belief that some of the PC may have had magick powers (not all of them) or able to harness energies from another world/dimension. Again, these would be the macross equivalent of the extinct Jedi Knights in starwars or something. The ones that are closer to nature and pro-life/anti-war are kind of the "spiritual elite", (like the jedi council who use to be able to offer advice to the old republic in the starwars prequels until it turned into an evil corrupt empire of robots, droids, clone soldiers etc when the dark forces took over) and the ones that rely on technology (think of droids, stormtroopers, and bountyunters) are the "grunts" who are materialistic and fight each other for wealth, not caring about nature or simple things.(ie like Sara's people who are strict luddites with an anti-technology/anti-war viewpoint)

The macross equivalent of this is probably that some of the PC were peace-loving hippies (the guys who seeded earth and altered our genes but got killed on thier way back?) and other PC people were "conquerer"-types wanting too much influence over everyone else and using thier power to manipulate everyone under thier control with advanced technology. The good guys wanted to start again, creating us, (they were the seeders going back to nature) and the bad ones wanted us dead (the god "Procacha" in macross zero: destroyers ordered to kill us off from the beginning but which failed the first time thanks to the birdhuman which cut its head off in ancient times).

This whole mention of "the legendary power" in SDF:macross by Exedol could just be a reference to "music" but we obviously see music has a magickal effect when certain people sing. Ie Basara creates energy, Sara heals plants, Myung awakens Dyson from hypnotic spell etc. Taken to an extreme (the protodevlin abilities in macross 7 for example) you have "super people" like that seen in Kaifun's LWD Movie who could do the stuff the protodevlin might have been able to do. (lifting cars off the ground with thier thoughts, similar to the 'levitating rocks' trick sara used, or just plain kicking ass without the need for technology - thier body and mind being the weapon.)

The thing that really scares me is: What if the ending to Zero wasn't just symbolic but literal?? And Shin himself harnessed this "super power" by levitating the plane with his own mind? We are assuming that this strange phenomenon is just a symbolic thing, while casually accepting the "floating rocks" and "healing plants" magick tricks seen earlier. In SDF:Macross when Kaifun flies in the air to kick the giant man to the ground and zaps him with a beam, I can't help but believe that the direction macross is going, is into the direction of super human people with mind powers, psychic abilities, and thought-based magick weapons and away from technology and material, mass-produced weapons.

If the PC genuinely had a religion (they had ancient prophecies as indicated in SDF:macross) then maybe they had some kind of messiah-type figure who acted as thier gods but these ancient 'super people' were forgotten over time and thought only to be myths? (causing the destruction of thier once-peaceful civilisation as they turned thier attention to material consumption-based activities that lead to thier fighting for control over these things, ..and away from nature and a harmonious self-sustaining, peaceful lifestyle with no need for the technology and war machines; similar to Sara's primitive people on earth in macross zero whose own energies and magick rituals replenished the destroyed plants and wounded/sick without any help?)

Edited March 13, 2005 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker