Sigh...evangelion...again And Again

[Spatula]

We should really start a new thread or find one of the (hundreds) of old EVA threads...

And so I did.

I just happened to "raid" a macross orientated thread and all assuden just sputtered stuff that related to 95/97.

I'm sure Eva doesn't really need any background information, simply because there's thousands of fan sites, as well as hate sites, of this anime series.

I did this just because of pure lamentation after seeing End of Eva. So have at it.

All mourning, discussing, praising and cursing can be done here for Anno's controversial piece.

[Gaijin]

All mourning, discussing, praising and cursing can be done here for Anno's controversial piece.

348421[/snapback]

Or it can be done in the many threads in this very board, in this very forum, and as of 1310 hrs my time, in the Eva thread that's on the same page as this one.

And to cure your lament...if you saw the series, you saw the same basic ending as the show in EOE anyways....think about it.

Edited November 30, 2005 by Gaijin

[JB0]

So yeah... how about that blue hair...

[Hikuro]

It's pretty blue, I wonder how she makes it so "naturally" blue every day........perhaps its really frosting?

[Radd]

Just to get this off to a controversial start, I really disliked the movies, and thought the tv series ending was perfect.

[capt.actionjackson]

I'm pretty sure in the commentary during END states that there is a theory that ANNO did end as an F-off to the fans who thought the TV ending was weak and/or confusing.

[Hikuro]

And what better way to say F U to everyone then too kill every single character but the angsty sadistic teenage boy!

[Radd]

I can believe it. Evangelion was primarily about the characters, and how each one was uniquely screwed up. It was a character disection, with heavy themes of transcendance in the form of the human instrumentality project. How do you show that in an action sequence?

End had some nice action sequences, but little else. Plus I hate the all-too-common 'holding the viewer's hand' mentality of storytelling. I like thinking.

[myk]

I'm pretty sure in the commentary during END states that there is a theory that ANNO did end as an F-off to the fans who thought the TV ending was weak and/or confusing.

348463[/snapback]

That's exactly what it was. I'll say again that the t.v. ending and "End of.." had the exact same themes, which involved Shinji realizing that his own happiness, sadness, direction in life-his fate, was entirely up to him, to the individual. I still think that Shinji should've finished Asuka off though...

[wolfx]

End had some nice action sequences, but little else. Plus I hate the all-too-common 'holding the viewer's hand' mentality of storytelling. I like thinking.

348472[/snapback]

I digress. "Holding the viewer's hand" is probably the best way of storytelling. You're telling a story, not giving a theory that makes people think. IMHO these so called open ended things that "make people think" should just stay off the movies. You could do that in a standard movie kind of way but have underlying messages THAT make people think. Think Narnia. It doesn't shoot u in the face and say "I am Christian...you will all burn in hell if you don't turn to Christ" but instead tells a story to drive that message across.

I would think most bad movies/stories, stories tend to "let go of your hand" halfway through the trip, making you feel "WTFed" as it ends. People will tend to tell you "Its to make you think" but i think its just really bad story telling. Plot holes are the worse of course and again they will clean their hands and say "Its to make you think". Puhleez......

I mean how would you feel if Frodo made it to Mount Doom, was about to throw the ring into the lava when suddenly, he gets sucked into some funky colorful weed induced (or whatever that thing Gandalf smokes) hallucinations where he sees Samwise talking in riddles and it ends there?

How would you feel if Luke Skywalker was getting lightning zapped by the emperor, he goes into a trippy dream and it ends with Darth Vader saying "Congratulations, Luke". End of Episode 6. You get the point.

In all, i think EoE was a good ending, an F-you or not from Anno i don't really care. I understood the TV ending more after watching EoE and i believe the TV ending should've ended like EoE. It drives the same message across but come on, your fans have been waiting for RESOLUTION to the main story. The message can come WITH the resolution. Never without. My 2 cents.

[Radd]

I believe you misunderstand. The fact that you compare straightforward action and adventure stories with a complex character decontruction and equate them as basically the same thing indicates that well enough.

We'll just have to disagree about storytelling. I personally believe many of the best stories do make the audience think. The entire mystery genre is built on that idea. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but you seem to be confusing storytelling that doesn't assume the worst of its audience with storytelling that fails to deliver any resolution or clues as to what is going on.

[mikeszekely]

All I'll say is that I'm yet to see an ending for Evangelion that I've liked. A shame, because I enjoyed the series up to about the last two episodes.

[CoryHolmes]

All I'll say is that I'm yet to see an ending for Evangelion that I've liked.  A shame, because I enjoyed the series up to about the last two episodes.

348514[/snapback]

I stopped really enjoying Eva around episode 18 or so. That's when it lost the light-hearted humour that did a great job of balancing out the heavy-handed drama.

[Spatula]

End had some nice action sequences, but little else. Plus I hate the all-too-common 'holding the viewer's hand' mentality of storytelling. I like thinking.

348472[/snapback]

I mean how would you feel if Frodo made it to Mount Doom, was about to throw the ring into the lava when suddenly, he gets sucked into some funky colorful weed induced (or whatever that thing Gandalf smokes) hallucinations where he sees Samwise talking in riddles and it ends there?

How would you feel if Luke Skywalker was getting lightning zapped by the emperor, he goes into a trippy dream and it ends with Darth Vader saying "Congratulations, Luke". End of Episode 6. You get the point.

348489[/snapback]

I'm crying of laughter. As well, I didn't quite expect so many responses, albeit some of the funny spam. Yeah, blue hair. How is it done.

I was actually just trying to sleep just now and I just can't seem to fall asleep. I look at my hands, and all assuden mini heads of Rei start popping up from my finger nails.

[Keith]

Asuka!

[wolfx]

I believe you misunderstand. The fact that you compare straightforward action and adventure stories with a complex character decontruction and equate them as basically the same thing indicates that well enough.

I dunno...maybe you could give some examples of great stories that "make you think". I'd think Asimov novels are great and really gets you thinkiing about Humans and Robots co-existing. It doesn't end adruptly leaving you to your so-called imagination to give your own ending. Its not action nor adventure, but hey, it RESOLVES all the issues that were in the story....or at least some of them.

We'll just have to disagree about storytelling. I personally believe many of the best stories do make the audience think. The entire mystery genre is built on that idea. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but you seem to be confusing storytelling that doesn't assume the worst of its audience with storytelling that fails to deliver any resolution or clues as to what is going on.

348497[/snapback]

Even mystery genre stories have a resolution to them. Who was the killer in the end? (Yea yea...i know its the butler ) Where was the treasure hidden? Imagine a great mystery novel and all it does by the end of it is "make you think" who the possible suspects are or where that treasure was but never really tells you. Isn't that just bad story telling? Eva TV was something like that. If you considered the last 2 episodes as clues to what happened....i can tell you....I was clueless until I watched EoE.

Anyway, point was, we all know EVA TV dumped the whole Mecha VS Angels angle at 25. What happened after Shinji killed Kaworu was ...up to your own interpretation. Then it was 2 trippy non-resolution episodes that made little sense by themselves. Then came EoE to continue the Mecha VS Angels story that EVA was built on. I'm just saying 24-25 should really be EoE , and maybe EoE should've been 24-25. That's all. I'm sure i'm not alone on this.

Edited November 30, 2005 by wolfx

[JB0]

I was actually just trying to sleep just now and I just can't seem to fall asleep.  I look at my hands, and all assuden mini heads of Rei start popping up from my finger nails. 

348531[/snapback]

A tragic tale of chemical abuse gone wrong.

[Radd]

I dunno...maybe you could give some examples of great stories  that "make you think".

Well, most anything by H.P. Lovecraft comes to mind pretty quickly.

Even mystery genre stories have a resolution to them. Who was the killer in the end? (Yea yea...i know its the butler ) Where was the treasure hidden? Imagine a great mystery novel and all it does by the end of it is "make you think" who the possible suspects are or where that treasure was but never really tells you. Isn't that just bad story telling? Eva TV was something like that. If you considered the last 2 episodes as clues to what happened....i can tell you....I was clueless until I watched EoE.

Personally, I did not get anything out of EoE that I didn't already get out of the tv series, aside from some action sequences. Again, it seems to me that you presume because you were clueless that the information wasn't there.

Anyway,  point was, we all know EVA TV dumped the whole Mecha VS Angels angle at 25.

I maintain that the 'giant robot' angle of the series was always a secondary aspect. I believed this long before the tv series ended. The fact that the show ended how it ended only seems to support my belief in this regard.

Edited November 30, 2005 by Radd

[Max Jenius]

Well she wasn't quite human... so blue hair... red eyes...

[sabretooth]

she was a bunny rabbit in disguise

[Guest Bromgrev]

Not much of a disguise ...

[Spatula]

A robot in disguise.

I bet she's the female counterpart to C3P0, so she can "feel" pain but perhaps doesn't really experience it.

there are numerous instances where C3PO feels "pain": he gets his legs soldered by R2D2 and yells at the droid to watch what he's doing. He's on chewbaccas back and knocks his head onto the roof of the ramp of the millenium falcon.

Perhaps Rei switched off her pain recepters when Gendo went in for the dive with his hands.

No really, I didn't expect EOE to still be stuck in my head because of the ending. It's the same feeling as after seeing Kill Bill for the first time, it sticks in your mind for a few days.

[emajnthis]

I got NGE Platinum collector's box as an early christmas gift and finished watching the whole thing with my wife just a few days ago. This would be my third time watching this series from start to finish, first time in chronological as the DVD's were released, second time in random, and this time again in chronological but one DVD per day.

The story actually made a lot of sense to me, even the last two episodes. But i know if i had only seen it once i wouldn't have understood a thing, the problem is that really important stuff is said at the most boring times, so it's easy to miss.

The last two episodes make perfect sense if you REALLY pay attention to the whole series, but its easier just to watch the movies and get it that way. But the movies are boring aside from Asuka's last battle and it was already hard enough to sit through two episodes of shinji fighting with his own insecurities as it was.

All in all it's good, but for the average viewer, it's not going to add up to much. I basically had to sit there and explain every single thing in every episode to my wife in order for anything to make sense, and pretty much warned her it would be kind of a let down before she even got to the last episodes. All in all she found the whole thing entertaining, and found the end result different but not favorable.

[Spatula]

All in all it's good, but for the average viewer, it's not going to add up to much.  I basically had to sit there and explain every single thing in every episode to my wife in order for anything to make sense, and pretty much warned her it would be kind of a let down before she even got to the last episodes.  All in all she found the whole thing entertaining, and found the end result different but not favorable.

355353[/snapback]

Quite like what I feel. What's funny is I was busy eating dinner 5 minutes ago thinking about that STARSHIP SIZE comparison chart and wondered about if they should include the EVA units as well as the angels. Then EOE popped into my head. WTF...

I also was quite entertained by much of the series up until Shinji kills Kayozu or whatever his name is... blah. Then it just didn't quite work for me.

Oh well, I'm glad I watched the Patlabor series to cheer me up.

[emajnthis]

at least you get a "pick me up" after watching NGE. My wife just got ahold of her child hood nostalgia Sailor Moon... so now i'm stuck watching one and a half million episodes of Sailor Moon! But then right afterwards i'm going to make her watch every Macross series that has been released to date, so it'll make up for lost time.

[Anubis]

She'l be right at home with Macross 7 then.

[emajnthis]

oh wait my bad... did i say "every series"?... I meant every series that matters.

[Nightbat]

You gotta have the blue hair (And I do)

[Fortress_Maximus]

I believe you misunderstand. The fact that you compare straightforward action and adventure stories with a complex character decontruction and equate them as basically the same thing indicates that well enough.

We'll just have to disagree about storytelling. I personally believe many of the best stories do make the audience think. The entire mystery genre is built on that idea. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but you seem to be confusing storytelling that doesn't assume the worst of its audience with storytelling that fails to deliver any resolution or clues as to what is going on.

348497[/snapback]

I tend to agree. Not all storytelling, especially ones that are character driven need to handhold and/or tie up plots neatly. This practice is used much more in Western films and storytelling than in Asia. Granted not all foreign stories are created to make you think or inspire, but many are not straightforward as Western audiences are accustomed to. In fact many animes and films in general leave the viewer wondering what happens/possibilities, not everything is resolved neatly. Also this is a very Japanese practice in storytelling, one of the best mangakas Takahashi Rumiko is an excellent example. Her classic and well loved works ranging from Urusei Yatsura, Ranma, One Pound Gospel, Mermaid Saga/Forest etc, all do not neatly close the series and/or the character interactions. The Urusei Yatsura films in particular are excellent examples of this form of storytelling and I would dare say, UY set many standards for many anime practices even to this day.

Edited December 28, 2005 by Fortress_Maximus