SCOOPUDA! Posted July 6, 2012 Posted July 6, 2012 So I just got back from the first ever screening of the new BD remaster of DYRL with Save. After 7 hrs straight at the cinema, its now 7:30 in the morning and I'm just about ready to crash. Before succumbing to sleep however, I have a few observations to make about the remaster - some of which may be a little surprising. First of all - the GOOD stuff. The new 5.1 remix is utterly amazing. At times it made the movie feel like an entirely new experience, although one's enjoyment of it will depend on the sound setup being used. In a cinema though it was the true highlight of this version. Picture quality is extremely detailed and clear - but not all the time. Darker scenes have obvious grain present, and strangely while one scene might look like it was animated only yesterday, others look almost out of focus. I'm not sure whether this was due to some scenes cleaning up better than others, projector issues, or some insurmountable issue with the remastering process, however on a few occasions it was really noticeable and quite jarring. Those scenes that are clear are undoubtedly the best that the film has ever looked. The ending/staff roll does not feature the Flashback 2012 footage, its the original cut. And speaking of cuts... The BAD stuff - Someone has decided to edit the remaster. I have no idea why, but the edits are there. Save and I picked 2 with a possible 3rd to be confirmed. These don't effect the film at all and are related to scenes with extreme violence. When Myria stomps on a Zentradis head in her Queadlunn Rau, the head is blurred a little as her foot comes down on it to cover the gore. Later on, the infamous guy who loses his head - the head part is gone entirely. The screen whites out and this is very noticeable. Now, this may just be an edit they did for the limited cinema screening but I doubt that Bandai would have gone to all the effort of making edits for what is essentially a promotional event. All we can do is wait until the end of the month and see, but if the version shown tonight was the final one then it might not be the ultimate version that everyone was hoping for. Read the full story here Quote
Macross_Fanboy Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 Nice pics, very otakulike and hopefully the edits are just for the screening, I guess one could say that some of the grain issues and original ending might enhance the nostalgia factor? Hopefully the BD release doesn't have the edits. Quote
UN Spacy Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 I don't consider that bad at all. But if Roy shoots first I'll start a tirade aginst Kawamori the likes of MW have never seen. Quote
antibiotictab Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 Now, this may just be an edit they did for the limited cinema screening but I doubt that Bandai would have gone to all the effort of making edits for what is essentially a promotional event. 1*7All we can do is wait until the end of the month and see, but if the version shown tonight was the final one then it might not be the ultimate version that everyone was hoping for. In Japan, in screening the movies, every company needs the permission from Eirin (Film Classification and Rating Committee). This case might come from an opinion from the organization. Besides, Victor entertainment released the Ideon movies last year. There are much more violent scenes in it, but no omitted scenes as far as I read the Amazon JP reviews. Just guessing, but I don't worry about the BD release. Quote
Astralith Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 Maybe those missing parts will be in the "Deleted Scenes" . Quote
EXO Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 Maybe those missing parts will be in the "Deleted Scenes" . LOL! Quote
Mr March Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 Most likely this is just the promotional edit. Doubtful those scenes will be missing from the release, though it wouldn't be the first time. Regardless, very happy to hear the film is looking good and sounding even better. Quote
Renato Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 In Japan, in screening the movies, every company needs the permission from Eirin (Film Classification and Rating Committee). This case might come from an opinion from the organization. Besides, Victor entertainment released the Ideon movies last year. There are much more violent scenes in it, but no omitted scenes as far as I read the Amazon JP reviews. Just guessing, but I don't worry about the BD release. But the problem is that the film itself already received an Eirin classification back in 1984 -- I don't think they revise them every time there is a screening, and certainly not if it's just a three-night event-only screening at one theater. In any case, this was a Bluray showing, which means that the change was made for the product itself and thus Eirin should have no jurisdiction on it anyway. Another thing -- Everybody, please do not forget that this was a triple-screening of DYRL with the two Frontier movies, back-to-back. In my opinion, cutting out split-second bursts of violence in DYRL and leaving extended scenes of dismemberment, headshots, impalings, blood vomiting and full-on massacres of Grace's troops in Sayonara no Tsubasa just doesn't make sense in terms of consistency. Again, this indicates that this was a change made for the product and not just the screening. Lastly: There was at least one rather noticeable edit for me. This one is uber-geeky, though. However, though I wouldn't say it ruined the movie, it certainly meant that this version fell quite short of perfection. I will put it in spoilers because if you do not notice it, you probably will be happy. Ignorance is bliss, etc. First of all -- Check here: Go to Youtube and check this video: /watch?v=okaAd85dF_E (I'm not putting the full link up just in case the exposure leads to it getting taken down) Go to 1:37:00. There is silence as Minmay still makes up her mind as to what she should do. Then the Valkyrie right behind them explodes. The soft piano music leading into the strings indicates to us that she has made an important realization. She hesitates as to how to express it in words for a few moments, until she says "gomen ne, Hikaru". She finally understands that as part of the responsibility of her having chosen the life of a singer against the wishes of her parents, it is her duty to sing right now. Then there is a brief silence and she accepts the lyrics and we get the first power strains of the title song, "DYRL". Right. The screening last night, however, was quite different. The BGM was ENTIRELY silent for that scene until the DYRL intro. It may be subtle, but it takes away a WHOLE LOT for me. I am very sensitive to the usage of BGM in movies/TV (remember our podcast on Sayonara no Tsubasa and how the Brera/Ozma battle kind of was dragged down by the stock BGM usage IMO) and DYRL is perfect as it was -- I don't know if this omission is on purpose or a mistake, but it is much, much more detrimental to the work overall than the violence being cut. This is Minmay's monumental decision we are talking about, the whole climax pivots on this one scene, and the BGM indicated the exact moment she realized, "oh my god, it's all up to me". Without the BGM there, you lose the emotional punctuation of that scene. It's almost like writing a novel in capitals. There is effective silence, of course, but remember that this scene is silent right up until Minmay actually looks up -- then we hear the music. I'm not crazy, I know what I heard/saw, and yet no-one else seems to have noticed it. Even the Japanese ultrafans who go to many more of these events than I do, and buy everything. In fact, when I told them about it, they said "I didn't notice that... You must have watched this movie a lot!" Well.... yeah. Haven't we all?? I can't imagine I have watched it more than them, they had a decade's headstart! Anyway, whatever. The sound, apart from that, was MAGNIFICENT. I loved it. Especially the opening shot of the Macross logo when the horns kick in: "BA BA BA BAAAA-DAAAAH!" I thought the place was going to come down. Quote
Keith Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 Considering the state the soundtrack was in for the last release, I'd be surprised if they didn't have to completely re-assemble it for this new mix. If they forgot a bit of music that is terrible, but not a deal breaker for me. Quote
Renato Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 Considering the state the soundtrack was in for the last release, I'd be surprised if they didn't have to completely re-assemble it for this new mix. If they forgot a bit of music that is terrible, but not a deal breaker for me. It is clear they did rebuild it from the ground up. Hopefully we will get more insight when we see the "documentary" thing. However, the scene I'm referring to is emotionally charged, and to drop the ball there almost ruins the whole thing... Quote
pablumatic Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 I sincerely hope Bandai doesn't censor this movie for the final release. Quote
Oihan Posted July 7, 2012 Posted July 7, 2012 But the problem is that the film itself already received an Eirin classification back in 1984 -- I don't think they revise them every time there is a screening, and certainly not if it's just a three-night event-only screening at one theater. In any case, this was a Bluray showing, which means that the change was made for the product itself and thus Eirin should have no jurisdiction on it anyway. Another thing -- Everybody, please do not forget that this was a triple-screening of DYRL with the two Frontier movies, back-to-back. In my opinion, cutting out split-second bursts of violence in DYRL and leaving extended scenes of dismemberment, headshots, impalings, blood vomiting and full-on massacres of Grace's troops in Sayonara no Tsubasa just doesn't make sense in terms of consistency. Again, this indicates that this was a change made for the product and not just the screening. Lastly: There was at least one rather noticeable edit for me. This one is uber-geeky, though. However, though I wouldn't say it ruined the movie, it certainly meant that this version fell quite short of perfection. I will put it in spoilers because if you do not notice it, you probably will be happy. Ignorance is bliss, etc. First of all -- Check here: Go to Youtube and check this video: /watch?v=okaAd85dF_E (I'm not putting the full link up just in case the exposure leads to it getting taken down) Go to 1:37:00. There is silence as Minmay still makes up her mind as to what she should do. Then the Valkyrie right behind them explodes. The soft piano music leading into the strings indicates to us that she has made an important realization. She hesitates as to how to express it in words for a few moments, until she says "gomen ne, Hikaru". She finally understands that as part of the responsibility of her having chosen the life of a singer against the wishes of her parents, it is her duty to sing right now. Then there is a brief silence and she accepts the lyrics and we get the first power strains of the title song, "DYRL". Right. The screening last night, however, was quite different. The BGM was ENTIRELY silent for that scene until the DYRL intro. It may be subtle, but it takes away a WHOLE LOT for me. I am very sensitive to the usage of BGM in movies/TV (remember our podcast on Sayonara no Tsubasa and how the Brera/Ozma battle kind of was dragged down by the stock BGM usage IMO) and DYRL is perfect as it was -- I don't know if this omission is on purpose or a mistake, but it is much, much more detrimental to the work overall than the violence being cut. This is Minmay's monumental decision we are talking about, the whole climax pivots on this one scene, and the BGM indicated the exact moment she realized, "oh my god, it's all up to me". Without the BGM there, you lose the emotional punctuation of that scene. It's almost like writing a novel in capitals. There is effective silence, of course, but remember that this scene is silent right up until Minmay actually looks up -- then we hear the music. I'm not crazy, I know what I heard/saw, and yet no-one else seems to have noticed it. Even the Japanese ultrafans who go to many more of these events than I do, and buy everything. In fact, when I told them about it, they said "I didn't notice that... You must have watched this movie a lot!" Well.... yeah. Haven't we all?? I can't imagine I have watched it more than them, they had a decade's headstart! Anyway, whatever. The sound, apart from that, was MAGNIFICENT. I loved it. Especially the opening shot of the Macross logo when the horns kick in: "BA BA BA BAAAA-DAAAAH!" I thought the place was going to come down. I sincerely hope NOTHING is removed/missing from the BD release. I'm starting to reconsider making a purchase. If all of these changes are there...perhaps they'll do another DYRL? release way way down the road with nothing missing? Quote
antibiotictab Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 But the problem is that the film itself already received an Eirin classification back in 1984 -- I don't think they revise them every time there is a screening, and certainly not if it's just a three-night event-only screening at one theater. In any case, this was a Bluray showing, which means that the change was made for the product itself and thus Eirin should have no jurisdiction on it anyway. Hmm. What you say seems to be more persuasive than my opinion. But... Quote
Renato Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 Hmm. What you say seems to be more persuasive than my opinion. But... To be honest, I don't remember. The sound during that scene was so amazingly incredible that I totally ignored the Eirin certificate. But in any case, in my spare time I'm part of a voluntary local film festival committee and we negotiate with film distributors so we can rent 35mm films to screen in my city -- anything from some 1960s Nikkatsu thing (『セーラー服と機関銃』とか) to the latest Hollywood junk is fair game. These are one-time showings, and as far as I know, we don't have to make any deals with Eirin to show them, since they all already have classifications. I don't see why DYRL should be any different. Although I'm sort of repeating what I said before, sorry. Quote
Dynaman Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 I don't see why DYRL should be any different. Although I'm sort of repeating what I said before, sorry. I have no idea what the law is, but you were showing films without doing any alterations of any kind. The "new" DYRL, even without the edits, was a remastered work - that may have been just enough to push it over the edge. Quote
Shaorin Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) this sure makes me appriciate the fact all the more that my life doesn't hinge around the latest and greatest in video formats. i lived, for FAR longer than what should be considered decent, with the old BEST VIDEO VHS release of DYRL, and only realitvely recently procured an all-region subbed DVD edition. that said, the DVD looks great, sounds great, has an excellent sub job, and is a complete cut, to boot. guess i'm just not a videophile, but i just don't see how i could possibly ask for more, personally... (special features/theatrical trailers would have been nice, but it ain't the end of the universe, or anything...) Edited July 9, 2012 by Shaorin Quote
Dynaman Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 that said, the DVD looks great, sounds great, has an excellent sub job, and is a complete cut, to boot. guess i'm just not a videophile, but i just don't see how i could possibly ask for more, personally... Same here, if I have a DVD I'm not going to go out and buy a BD of the same thing just to get a "better picture". Usually I can't tell the difference. If the original had massive problems, an example is the cleanup done for Metroplis (Fritz Lang's that is). Quote
Keith Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Same here, if I have a DVD I'm not going to go out and buy a BD of the same thing just to get a "better picture". Usually I can't tell the difference. If the original had massive problems, an example is the cleanup done for Metroplis (Fritz Lang's that is). If the DVD is of good quality to begin with, i can see that. But the more you get used to our new HD era, the more you'll start to notice the differences, which can be quite dramatic. Viewing distance also plays a factor, but in most cases BD's will stomp all over DVD's, so unless it's a fubard & DNR'd all to hell release, or a master that looks just as bad as or worse than a DVD, I'm up for upgrading. Quote
ReAnimator Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 And let's not forget the AUDIO advantage bluray has over standard def DVD. Uncompressed audio FTW! Quote
Dynaman Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 And let's not forget the AUDIO advantage bluray has over standard def DVD. Uncompressed audio FTW! Even more then video, audio has no appeal for me. I have low-end TVs (one of which is 720p no less) and whatever speakers they come with is what I have... Quote
Gubaba Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 And let's not forget the AUDIO advantage bluray has over standard def DVD. Uncompressed audio FTW! Again, I thought the mono version had it ALL OVER the stereo version. Tell me why 5.1 is an advantage again...? Quote
Shaorin Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Even more then video, audio has no appeal for me. I have low-end TVs (one of which is 720p no less) and whatever speakers they come with is what I have... it's got all the appeal in the world to me, however, having a reasonably formidable stereo-based Hi-Fi system attached to my 46" LCD and related video gear. all my vintage sources, from VHS and LD to DVD, look as good or better than i've ever recalled. i've Blu-Ray too, now, and, while it does indeed look and sound as good as the best i've ever seen, it isn't exactly the "Second Coming" for me that it seems to be for most, and doesn't destroy my enjoyment of the older formats that i maintain in the slightest bit. i guess i just accept and appreciate all existing video formats for what they are, pluses, as well as minuses, much as an audiophile does with vinyl records... Edited July 10, 2012 by Shaorin Quote
Keith Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 While I don't begrudge anyone for "not" wanting to upgrade, claiming that inferior technology & lossy compression is somehow "better" is delusional. Quote
Renato Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 Again, I thought the mono version had it ALL OVER the stereo version. Tell me why 5.1 is an advantage again...? For starters, in the new 5.1 mix they put in all the Spanish, English, Portuguese junk that you like. (Just kidding, I like it too! "Anybody got a cigarette?") Quote
Shaorin Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) While I don't begrudge anyone for "not" wanting to upgrade, claiming that inferior technology & lossy compression is somehow "better" is delusional. it ain't "better" but it ain't "bad" either. some get "spoiled" by the new, superior tech, and the older formats are instantly no longer good enough, nor often even tolerable for them. that's all well and good, to each their own. not -everyone- is that way, however. some people out there -a minority, for sure- can still enjoy something for what it is, regardless of how out of date/obsoleted it may be... as i said, i've BR myself now, and, while it is very good indeed, it hasn't once made me suddenly feel like kicking VHS, LD and DVD off to the curb. these formats are what they are, and they are very good for what they are, at that. one day, sooner rather than later, BRD will be just as obsoleted as it's predecessors. regardless, it too will be good for what it is, and an indelible part of Home Video history... i don't know, i'd think Minmay-chan's Panties just as cute in SD, but i guess that's just me... Edited July 11, 2012 by Shaorin Quote
ZenAmako Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 I wonder if the movie was edited because the game has an all-ages ("A") rating. When the Megazone 23 PS3 game came out, it included a version of the anime on DVD that was edited to comply with the game's rating. Personally, I don't care about the game. It would be a shame if the movie had to be edited because of it. Quote
Capt Hungry Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 Maybe they used the cut that was used for the Clash Of The Bionoids that was released back in the 80's. I remember watching DYRL for the first time and seeing Miriya stomping the dudes head. That was light years better than the COTB VHS that I had. I'll reserve judgement when the final version is released. Quote
ZenAmako Posted July 11, 2012 Posted July 11, 2012 Even the COTB edit included the decapitated head. Quote
Renato Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 I wonder if the movie was edited because the game has an all-ages ("A") rating. When the Megazone 23 PS3 game came out, it included a version of the anime on DVD that was edited to comply with the game's rating. Personally, I don't care about the game. It would be a shame if the movie had to be edited because of it. That could be a possibility. But then, again, I would have to raise the question of "what about Sayonara no Tsubasa"? Remember that was a hybrid disc with a game too, and it had plenty of violent scenes. Maybe they used the cut that was used for the Clash Of The Bionoids that was released back in the 80's. No, because it was blurred, not cut outright. Quote
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