Shoji Kawamori "created" Macross: load of bull?

[danth]

One thing I keep hearing lately is that Shoji Kawamori is the "creator" of Macross, which sounds like a bunch of baloney to me. I know that he has become sort of a figurehead of the Macross franchise, but from what I remember, he was simply the mecha designer for the original Super Dimensional Fortress Macross.

Anime News Network lists the credits like I remember them: Kawamori was merely a mecha guy, while others were in charge of scenario and direction. Wikipedia lists Kawamori as the writer of SDF:Macross, which seems completely wrong. Is this some sort of historical ret-con so shows like Macross Frontier seem more legit even though it has almost none of the original talent behind it?

I know Kawamori directed Macross Plus and became the grand master of Macross after that (story supervisor for Macross 7 and director/storyboard for Frontier), but I don't think he's the "creator" of Macross by any means.

[eugimon]

Macross Compendium says otherwise

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/Shoji_Kawamori

Fight on.

[Seto Kaiba]

One thing I keep hearing lately is that Shoji Kawamori is the "creator" of Macross, which sounds like a bunch of baloney to me. I know that he has become sort of a figurehead of the Macross franchise, but from what I remember, he was simply the mecha designer for the original Super Dimensional Fortress Macross.

As eugimon just pointed out, this is pretty much a misunderstanding on your part. In point of fact, the concept from which the original Macross series was developed was created by Shoji Kawamori, and he's been involved in Macross's creative process as much more than "just a mechanical designer". His "claim to fame" as Macross's creator is entirely legitimate, and he's been setting the direction of the Macross story since the very beginning.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Seto Kaiba

[soul.assassin]

One thing I keep hearing lately is that Shoji Kawamori is the "creator" of Macross, which sounds like a bunch of baloney to me. I know that he has become sort of a figurehead of the Macross franchise, but from what I remember, he was simply the mecha designer for the original Super Dimensional Fortress Macross.

Anime News Network lists the credits like I remember them: Kawamori was merely a mecha guy, while others were in charge of scenario and direction. Wikipedia lists Kawamori as the writer of SDF:Macross, which seems completely wrong. Is this some sort of historical ret-con so shows like Macross Frontier seem more legit even though it has almost none of the original talent behind it?

I know Kawamori directed Macross Plus and became the grand master of Macross after that (story supervisor for Macross 7 and director/storyboard for Frontier), but I don't think he's the "creator" of Macross by any means.

The problem with the ANN database and Wikipedia is that, because they're in the public, anyone can tamper with the data, which is why I regard those two sites as having secondary sources and take them with a grain of salt.

[azrael]

As eugimon just pointed out, this is pretty much a misunderstanding on your part. In point of fact, the concept from which the original Macross series was developed was created by Shoji Kawamori, and he's been involved in Macross's creative process as much more than "just a mechanical designer". His "claim to fame" as Macross's creator is entirely legitimate, and he's been setting the direction of the Macross story since the very beginning.

Co-creator. While Kawamori wasn't involved in the minute details of Macross, the original concepts did come from him (i.e. the Valks and setting). He mainly focuses on mecha design, he has written episodes, directed episodes, and directed series. Others have developed Macross into its current form, but the original concept began with Kawamori and matured through other people, hence, co-creator. A more effective title for his role these days is probably "Show Runner" or "Executive Producer".

[soul.assassin]

In essence, many hands (and brilliant minds) make light work, and which is probably why this saga will be sticking around for a very long time.

[Kronnang Dunn]

Co-creator. While Kawamori wasn't involved in the minute details of Macross, the original concepts did come from him (i.e. the Valks and setting). He mainly focuses on mecha design, he has written episodes, directed episodes, and directed series. Others have developed Macross into its current form, but the original concept began with Kawamori and matured through other people, hence, co-creator. A more effective title for his role these days is probably "Show Runner" or "Executive Producer".

As far as I know Kawamori created the original series concept, the whole triangle with a space war as background, the alien giants fighting mecha, the valkyries, the regults and the glaug, the space opera setting, the use of other alternatives to fighting for winning a war, everything. Without him, there wouldn't be any Macross... period.

[isamu]

From everything I've heard and after talking to various people, I came away with the impression that this man:

Noboru Ishiguro, was more responsible with coming up with the actual story and creation of SDF Macross than Kawamori was. It's hard to verify this assumption with 100% fact though.

[Keith]

Look at it this way. You're a company that wants to produce an anime series, and has some very hot, but inexperienced young talent involved (Kawamoir, Mikimoto, etc). What are you going to do to make sure things turn out successful? Bring in a seasoned professional to direct them. Doesn't make him the creator, but it does give everyone else the benefit of his experience.

[Gian]

It's so simple!

Macross - Kawamori = Macross II

Macross II = Fail (I like the char/mecha designs tho)

/endthread

[Gubaba]

From everything I've heard and after talking to various people, I came away with the impression that this man:

Noboru Ishiguro, was more responsible with coming up with the actual story and creation of SDF Macross than Kawamori was. It's hard to verify this assumption with 100% fact though.

From my understanding, Keith is essentially right. Ishiguro was mostly around to convince the studio execs that he could keep the young'uns in line, while in actuality, he pretty much let them do their own thing.

But yeah...this is a really interesting question, because there's no real definitive answer (although we know that Kawamori came up with both the Valkyries and the city inside the spaceship, which was an idea he had been wanting to do for years). But a couple of questions:

First, why is Kawamori the one who does the episode-by-episode commentary in the Macross Graffiti book?

Second, why in interviews with the staff, do the other staff members usually defer to Kawamori?

Third, why was he the one who wrote "The Lost Two Years" for Macross Perfect Memory?

[sketchley]

In the end, as television/movie/video game production is ultimately a collaborative creative process, it's impossible to decide who created what (if one wants to get philosophical about it, the sum of any one person's mind is the results of the collaborative input of all the people that the individual has encountered; ergo our ancestors all had a role in creating Macross ).

Nevertheless, if officially he's credited as creator, then he's the creator.*

That's official as in: in an official Japanese publication about Macross, with a verifiable publication date.

And expanding on soul.assassin's point: Wikipedia et al are great starting points for further research, but they are not the be all and end all source. The better articles make on those sites make it even easier as they have handy links to their sources at the bottom.

[danth]

The better articles make on those sites make it even easier as they have handy links to their sources at the bottom.

The source for the key quote in the article (about the original ideas coming from Kawamori) is the Perfect Memory book. I don't have it nor do I speak Japanese, unfortunately. It'd be nice to see a translation of that page.

Is there a translation of Perfect Memory online?

While SDF Macross was definitely a collaborative effort, it's looking more to me now that Kawamori was truly the "original concept" guy, so I won't be as perturbed when he is referred to as the "creator" of Macross. However, since none of the later Macross works were nearly as good (not counting DYRL, which was awesome), I'm not crediting Kawamori with the all the glory. The collaboration is what made SDF so great.

[Gubaba]

The source for the key quote in the article (about the original ideas coming from Kawamori) is the Perfect Memory book. I don't have it nor do I speak Japanese, unfortunately. It'd be nice to see a translation of that page.

Is there a translation of Perfect Memory online?

While SDF Macross was definitely a collaborative effort, it's looking more to me now that Kawamori was truly the "original concept" guy, so I won't be as perturbed when he is referred to as the "creator" of Macross. However, since none of the later Macross works were nearly as good (not counting DYRL, which was awesome), I'm not crediting Kawamori with the all the glory. The collaboration is what made SDF so great.

Well...I'm not sure that that appraoch necessarily works, either. A lot of the writing staff from SDFM, for example, went on to write Macross 7, which Kawamori was barely involved in (beyond coming up with the idea for the story).

I like to think of SDFM/DYRL/FB2012 as just one of those "right place, right time, magic is made" kind of moments that is utterly unreproduceable.

Hell, look at the Beatles...none of them made solo albums that were anywhere near as good as the music they made together. But I don't think anyone's gonna say, "John was only good when Ringo was collaborating with him."

EDIT: As for Perfect Memory, no there's no translation online. A lot of the info about the making of Macross, though, ended up getting retold in Robotech Art 1.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Gubaba

[Renato]

This is actually the reason why that article in "Cut" magazine got such a lot of flak. Kawamori did not create "Macross", no one person did, it was at the end of the day a collaborative effort by Studio Nue.

Ishiguro was the guy in charge and took responsibility in running the show, but essentially the plan was already set before he stepped in.

While SDF Macross was definitely a collaborative effort, it's looking more to me now that Kawamori was truly the "original concept" guy, so I won't be as perturbed when he is referred to as the "creator" of Macross. However, since none of the later Macross works were nearly as good (not counting DYRL, which was awesome), I'm not crediting Kawamori with the all the glory. The collaboration is what made SDF so great.

That sounds fair to me.

[Shaorin]

One thing I keep hearing lately is that Shoji Kawamori is the "creator" of Macross, which sounds like a bunch of baloney to me. I know that he has become sort of a figurehead of the Macross franchise, but from what I remember, he was simply the mecha designer for the original Super Dimensional Fortress Macross.

Anime News Network lists the credits like I remember them: Kawamori was merely a mecha guy, while others were in charge of scenario and direction. Wikipedia lists Kawamori as the writer of SDF:Macross, which seems completely wrong. Is this some sort of historical ret-con so shows like Macross Frontier seem more legit even though it has almost none of the original talent behind it?

I know Kawamori directed Macross Plus and became the grand master of Macross after that (story supervisor for Macross 7 and director/storyboard for Frontier), but I don't think he's the "creator" of Macross by any means.

all i know is that MASAHARU KAWAMORI (pen name of "Shoji" Kawamori is the man 100% responsible for the VF-1 series, which i personally consider to be

THE greatest Mecha design ever drafted, variable form or otherwise.

i am quite sure that there are many more out there that feel at least nearly as strongly about that as i do,

and, even if the facts of his ACTUAL involvement in SDF MAC./DYRL are actually overblown and abused, it is nonetheless most accurate

in respect to the fact that, in actuality, Kawamori's VF-1 is, for all true intents and purposes, MACROSS itself.

let's face it people; SDF MACROSS was and is a terrific series, and was an actual phenomenon in Japan for a brief period,

and there was singular, unique aspect of the series that was (and pretty much still is) almost entirely (if not entirely)responsible

for MACROSS' rabid popularity back then, as well as it's enduring popularity thirty years on.

that unique aspect happens to be none other than Kawamori-san's original brainchild, the VF-1 "Valkyrie" Variable Fighter.

let's be honest; viewed in that context, Kawamori-san truly WAS the creator of MACROSS.

his design singlehandedly made the series take off like the proverbial supersonic jet.

without his indispensable real-world engineering fueled influence, "BATTLE CITY MEGAROAD"/"MACBETH" (as SDF MACROSS was billed during it's early development stages)

would have very likely never made it off the drawing board, and if it actually had, would have been likely to have been buried to death

and quickly forgotten amongst the torrential flood of "Real Mecha" series being poured forth into the Anime industry at the time,

M.S. GUNDAM leading the charge as it always traditionally has.

bearing all of this in mind, anyone should be able to see why Kawamori-san is generally regarded by fans as the "Father of MACROSS"

as great as the combined staff of SDF MAC. was, it was Kawamori and his design concepts that singlehandedly gave the MACROSS project

it's "Killer App" which was an ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL element needed to enable the series to stand out, and make the unique and undeniable mark

in the industry and in the audiences' minds that it has.

any way that you slice it, this is THE absolutely invaluable linchpin element in any successful Movie and/or T.V. series production,

and MACROSS was/is no different...

Edited July 9, 2011 by Shaorin

[EXO]

I think he's the one that came up with the concept and took it to Big West or BW asked him to come up with the concept. Someone else can become the show runner but the person responsible for the concept is usually considered "the creator".

In the case of Alien , it's always considered that the man responsible is Ridley Scott. And largely he is the one that brought us the film as we know it. But it was Dan O'Bannon and Ronald Shusett that came up with the concept and David Giler with Walter Hill ran the show after they optioned the script. Things changed as the development progressed but O'Bannon and Shusett are still considered the creators.

but back to Macross, Even though Kawamori initiated the concept and Ishiguro shepherded the project, people like Mikimoto had significant contribution to the story. His Minmay character pretty much stole the show.

[Xard]

As far as I know Kawamori created the original series concept, the whole triangle with a space war as background, the alien giants fighting mecha, the valkyries, the regults and the glaug, the space opera setting, the use of other alternatives to fighting for winning a war, everything. Without him, there wouldn't be any Macross... period.

Pretty much this. All key concepts came from Kawamori and he was one of the main writers of the original series. The valkyries, the focus and power of music, the love triangle, the basic story outline etc. originated with him. If we simplify things the chief creative crew for Macross that commonly gets named is

Young Trio

Shoji Kawamori

Haruhiko Mikimoto

Hiroshi Ohnogi (though Ohnogi wasn't part of the production from the start and ofc there were many other screenwriters too)

The Animeigo liner notes refer to trio as such too:

This episode (ep 16) was the first written by Oonogi Hiroshi, an old schoolmate of creator Kawamori Shoji and character designer Mikimoto Haruhiko. He would later write the flashback novel "Misa Hayase: White Reminiscences," a collaborative work among these budding artists known as the "Young Trio."

that their group had such a nickname tells just how crucial their contributions were

and the director

Noburo Ishiguro

Macross is notable for being first major creation and hit in which core creative crew consisted mainly of "otaku generation" (in addition to "young trio" I could add luminaries such as Ichiro Itano etc.) and it showed it in many ways. Macross was the chance given to these young 20something kiddos who loved their Yamato and Gundam to show what they can do. However they needed someone experienced to watch over them and guide them through the process of creating their first major work...and who would be better person for this than Noburo Ishiguro who was heavily involved even with Yamato itself back in the day? He was the one who kept the project running and acted as sort of general "father figure" - but as mentioned the creative flow of ideas came from young members of the cast from writers to animators.

I don't think anyone has ever said Kawamori created Macross alone but if one starts to think about it and if one needs to name one person who is the "father" of Macross it would be him. No one else contributed as many core ideas to the project. IIRC the reason Kawamori got into director side of business was so that he could get his ideas done more close to his original vision.

For comparison Neon Genesis Evangelion is Hideaki Anno's baby through and through (moreso than Macross is Kawamori's) but I don't think many people outside the fandom know that such crucial things like

- Shinji being a boy (Anno initially planned to have another girl protagonist a la Gunbuster)

- Souls of dead mothers of pilots being inside Evas

were originally character designer Yoshiyuki Sadamoto's ideas Anno approved of. Pen^2 was Sadamoto's idea too IIRC. This is why GAINAX is credited as the creator of Eva alongside with Anno.

Creating anime is always a collaborative effort by nature and people know this in general. I don't think when people call Kawamori creator of Macross mean he did that on his own...just that he was the one who came up with the series in the first place and who has been the "GL" for the franchise for decades by now (unlike Tomino for Gundam, for example).

Actually, why do you assume people are referring to SDFM in particular when they call Kawamori the creator of Macross? When I call him that I speak of Macross franchise in general and it's undeniable Kawamori has been the main creative force and general controller of "canon" since days of DYRL (and actively since Macross Plus when he kicked Macross II, some games etc. done without him out the canon) which he wrote and directed. The one Macross that series that didn't originate from him is Macross II which is viewed as uncanonical bastard child of the franchise and is no part of the official Studio Nue continuity, after all.

As far as I can tell Kawamori was the most influential out of co-creators of SDF Macross and the creative head for all that came afterwards (writing and directing DYRL largerly on his own, kicking Macross II out of the canon and then pretty much reigning without opposition starting with Macross Plus) - which is more than enough to justify calling him the "creator" of Macross in general in my eyes. He's the only core creator who has worked on and had significant contributions to all Macross titles apart from II and from whose ideas all series originate from SDFM to Frontier (again excluding uncanonical II).

While SDF Macross was definitely a collaborative effort, it's looking more to me now that Kawamori was truly the "original concept" guy, so I won't be as perturbed when he is referred to as the "creator" of Macross. However, since none of the later Macross works were nearly as good (not counting DYRL, which was awesome), I'm not crediting Kawamori with the all the glory. The collaboration is what made SDF so great.

Well, I don't know. By far the worst official Macross in my opinion is Macross 7...with which Kawamori was easily least involved with. It's the only one he didn't write (beyond coming up with story concepts etc. that is) or direct at all and I think it shows...in a bad way.

********

I think it's really simplified and crude to attribute Macross's success to VF-1. It was big part of it but by no means the only one.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Xard

[danth]

let's face it people; SDF MACROSS was and is a terrific series, and was an actual phenomenon in Japan for a brief period,

and there was singular, unique aspect of the series that was (and pretty much still is) almost entirely (if not entirely)responsible

for MACROSS' rabid popularity back then, as well as it's enduring popularity thirty years on.

that unique aspect happens to be none other than Kawamori-san's original brainchild, the VF-1 "Valkyrie" Variable Fighter.

let's be honest; viewed in that context, Kawamori-san truly WAS the creator of MACROSS.

his design singlehandedly made the series take off like the proverbial supersonic jet.

I really want to disagree with you, but then I look at Gundam, where the only thing holding the franchise together is the robots. They make all the merchandising cash as well. So it isn't very unrealistic to say that the mecha is really what matters. At least Macross has two other constants: the music and the love triangle.

but back to Macross, Even though Kawamori initiated the concept and Ishiguro shepherded the project, people like Mikimoto had significant contribution to the story. His Minmay character pretty much stole the show.

And of course Miyatake designed the titular Macross itself, as well as the Zentraedi mecha & destroids. It's funny how Kawamori includes Miyatake in all of the Macross shows, but not Mikimoto. I think Kawamori considered Mikimoto's work in Macross II a betrayal and is still upset about it. Why on earth else would Mikimoto not be included in Macross Plus? Those Plus character designs are fugly.

[Gubaba]

And of course Miyatake designed the titular Macross itself, as well as the Zentraedi mecha & destroids. It's funny how Kawamori includes Miyatake in all of the Macross shows, but not Mikimoto. I think Kawamori considered Mikimoto's work in Macross II a betrayal and is still upset about it. Why on earth else would Mikimoto not be included in Macross Plus? Those Plus character designs are fugly.

From what I understand (which may or may not be correct), Mikimoto was given a choice to do either Macross 7 or Macross Plus (it probably would've been impossible to do both...too much work), and he chose 7. I've never heard of any feud between Kawamori and Mikimoto.

(And I liked the Plus designs, but that's neither here nor there, really...)

[danth]

Well, I don't know. By far the worst official Macross in my opinion is Macross 7...with which Kawamori was easily least involved with. It's the only one he didn't write (beyond coming up with story concepts etc. that is) or direct at all and I think it shows...in a bad way.

I actually like Macross 7 the most after the original. Zero and Frontier are garbage in my opinion, and Plus is extremely overrated -- ugly as hell character designs, unlikeable and unrelatable characters, a stupid story based on flashbacks. I mean, yeah, the mecha fight scenes were cool. Macross 7 was flawed, and too long, but it had the charm that the other sequels were missing. It also felt more like Macross with the Mikimoto character designs and all.

Thanks for all the info by the way.

[Xard]

I really want to disagree with you, but then I look at Gundam, where the only thing holding the franchise together is the robots. They make all the merchandising cash as well. So it isn't very unrealistic to say that the mecha is really what matters. At least Macross has two other constants: the music and the love triangle.

Love triangle in SDFM was pretty much something that drew in older audiences who cared about stuff other than stuff blowing up on the screen. The big role of music was the central conceit of storyline that was there from the start and explicitly far more important than any specific mecha design: Kawamori said in some interview he wanted to create something distinct from Yamato and Gundam but he felt if he used some sort of mechanical thing (like superweapon or mecha unit) as around what story revolves and which provides the resolution to conflict he'd just end up travelling same paths. So he tried to think of something that would seem frivolous in context of war and came up with...pop music. Rest is Minmay attack and history.

Comparison with Gundam isn't that valid also because Macross was huge hit from the start - Gundam only got popular after the toys became popular.

We can also deny that "Macross is about mechas" by looking at the creative process behind new entries and what is most important, the starting point. Does Kawamori start planning new Macross series by designing new cool VF or coming up with novel story concept? No, the first thing he decides is what kind of music the series should have! He starts with music, not mechas or anything else. I think that speaks volumes.

And the core Macross themes about POWER OF LOVE, pacifism and music and culture as uniting forces against violence have nothing to do with mechas per se...but Macross stories can't function without the music, their core storytelling conceit from the start. Take music out of Macross and the story collapses, turn mechas into fighter jets or something and you can still write Macross story.

This on its own is enough to disprove that the core of series is mecha action. It's similar to Eva in a sense. Eva's core is characters, Macross's music - while both are mecha anime franchises. Out of the big three mecha franchises only Gundam has at its core mecha warfare as most essential element for the story!

Macross 7 already shifted the focus from mechas to music most notably IMO - Frontier's popularity has more to do with succesful modern bishoujo aesthetics and music than VFs I'd say. Ranka and Sheryl are practically everywhere while VFs play much, much smaller role in promotion materials etc.

And of course Miyatake designed the titular Macross itself, as well as the Zentraedi mecha & destroids. It's funny how Kawamori includes Miyatake in all of the Macross shows, but not Mikimoto. I think Kawamori considered Mikimoto's work in Macross II a betrayal and is still upset about it. Why on earth else would Mikimoto not be included in Macross Plus? Those Plus character designs are fugly.

I'm not biggest fan of Plus designs but they're ok in my eyes. I doubt Kawamori bears a grudge towards Mikimoto since he is doing the Macross The First manga...

[Gubaba]

I actually like Macross 7 the most after the original. Zero and Frontier are garbage in my opinion...

And yet, Zero was written by Hiroshi Ohnogi, who also wrote some of the best episodes of SDFM ("Kung-fu Dandy," "Micro Cosmos," "Drop Out," "Viva Maria," "Broken Heart," and "Private Time").

Edited July 9, 2011 by Gubaba

[Ghost Train]

A New Challenger Approaches!

Cough cough, eh yo... we be the creators of the original transforming robot original american production yo, HARMONY GOLD SHAKA ZULU REpreseeeentiiiiiin!

[akt_m]

load of bull???

Totally wrong, even if what he did was "just" the valkyrie desings, it was still the main selling point of the series.

Just imagine if they had replaced the cool VF-1 for a lookalike transformable ugly Gundam, i don't think it would have been remarkable enough for me to become a fan later.

[danth]

And yet, Zero was written by Hiroshi Ohnogi, who also wrote some of the best episodes of SDFM ("Kung-fu Dandy," "Micro Cosmos," "Drop Out," "Viva Maria," "Broken Heart," and "Private Time").

Whoa, that's interesting. Glad to see they're keeping the SDFM guys around. What did you think of Zero?

[Renato]

And yet, Zero was written by Hiroshi Ohnogi, who also wrote some of the best episodes of SDFM ("Kung-fu Dandy," "Micro Cosmos," "Drop Out," "Viva Maria," "Broken Heart," and "Private Time").

Hmm. You know, I don't want to be a hater, but some of those episodes are not very good at all IMO... And also IIRC most of them were outsourced to Star Pro to be animated, which may mean that the staff felt they were on the weak side compared to some others. Who knows, though.

Edit -- Didn't he also write "Romanesque"? That was a good one. "Broken Heart" was terrible, though.

Edited July 10, 2011 by Renato

[Renato]

Whoa, that's interesting. Glad to see they're keeping the SDFM guys around. What did you think of Zero?

Hey danth, it surprises me that you didn't know about this. Ohnogi was a main topic of discussion a couple of years ago here when Gubaba had to single-handedly debunk months of lies made up by some Latin-American fan claiming that Ohnogi had screwed up Kawamori's original intentions for Frontier's storyline by overtly favouring Sheryl or something, despite his complete lack of involvement in the show in reality.

[terry the lone wolf]

To me the genesis of Macross is the mechs specifically the Valkyries & the Macross (people living in a city in a space cruiser) itself. Shoji created the idea of people living in a ship during a intergalactic war on Earth while major cities are being destroyed. They use fighters called breasts fighters because of the "special" place they launch from. Then there's another idea of a transformable fighter with 3 modes of transformation called Ga-Walk (We-Walk). Somehow during the process the breast fighter and the Ga-walkers merge and become the Valkyrie. Now writers like Noburo Ishiguro probably crafted a well meaning story from Kawamori's ideas but the overall concept is Kawamori's.

I always hoped that Kawamori would revisit the Battle Cruiser Megaroad/Megalode concept as some sort of parody or alternate universe Macross.

[anime52k8]

Hey danth, it surprises me that you didn't know about this. Ohnogi was a main topic of discussion a couple of years ago here when Gubaba had to single-handedly debunk months of lies made up by some Latin-American fan claiming that Ohnogi had screwed up Kawamori's original intentions for Frontier's storyline by overtly favouring Sheryl or something, despite his complete lack of involvement in the show in reality.

What are you talking about it? Hiroshi Ohnogi totally wrote all of frontier after episode 18, that's why there are all those references to the SDF Novelization Ohnogi wrote! Isn't that right Gubaba?

Edited July 10, 2011 by anime52k8

[Keith]

I definately afll into the camp that loves the Macross sequal series as much as, if not more so than the oriignal. And to debate another point, John Lennons solo albums were definately superior to "The Beatles."

[Gui]

[...]

And of course Miyatake designed the titular Macross itself, as well as the Zentraedi mecha & destroids. [..]

Wasn't Kawamori who designed the zentran mechas instead (regults, queadlunn, nousjadeul, etc)?

[...]

This on its own is enough to disprove that the core of series is mecha action. It's similar to Eva in a sense. Eva's core is characters, Macross's music - while both are mecha anime franchises. Out of the big three mecha franchises only Gundam has at its core mecha warfare as most essential element for the story!

[...]

This is oversimplified: First Gundam is an allegory on WW2, which remains the most important event in Japan recent history, of course mecha warfare is at its core – how can you depict a war story without war machines? But Macross remains a war story too, even if this war is won through a different way: therefore mechas stay at the core of Macross aswell, they simply play a more minor role...

Although, if you listen to Tomino, Gundam is all about hope, whatever it is supposed to mean...

[Keith]

Although, if you listen to Tomino, Gundam is all about hope, whatever it is supposed to mean...

He's talking about the potential for Newtypes to reach an understanding with each other that transcends normal communication, and will end the need for war. Of course they always end up getting used as super pilots & kill each other before that can happen, but hey, it's bound to work eventually....

[Renato]

Wasn't Kawamori who designed the zentran mechas instead (regults, queadlunn, nousjadeul, etc)?

No, that was all Miyatake. Although the movie version of the Nousjadeul Ger was designed by guest mecha designer Yutaka Izubuchi, he of subsequent "Patlabor" fame.

[JB0]

He's talking about the potential for Newtypes to reach an understanding with each other that transcends normal communication, and will end the need for war. Of course they always end up getting used as super pilots & kill each other before that can happen, but hey, it's bound to work eventually....

Well, if they actually reached an understanding, there wouldn't be a franchise to milk, would there? They must make sacrifices for the good of the company.