HG and Robotech Debates

[Ghost Train]

All this talk about Mass Effect got me thinking

[chrisk]

All this talk about Mass Effect got me thinking

I shall give you props for the effort

[BeyondTheGrave]

In short, does that mean HG could release Macross Frontier on CN if they go through the motions to do it, if they wanted to?

CN play something that doesn't appeal to stoner's , has a plot and has an ending? Blasphemy!!!

First off. Is his Caps Lock key broken?

Or does he always type like an *sshole?

One reason I read was it because his hands are too big for his keyboard and he keeps hitting the caps lock key so he just leaves it on.

[Zen72]

I started a thread on RT.com a bit over a month ago, then I found out that I could be flat out banned for it by friends here and other boards so I never bothered to post anymore in it. I just flat out asked why HG themselves couldn't get the rights to bring over the 1/48 /60/72/100 etc. valks. Eventually MEMO made a post in the thread. Enjoy.

Can anyone translate what hey's trying to say?

[Seto Kaiba]

That's so incredibly frustrating. I wish we could get some Macross over here.

As do I... but in order for that to happen, Harmony Gold is going to have to come to grips with the reality that Robotech never was the wildly successful, genre-defying, industry-shaping masterpiece they want to believe it is. Once they've done that, they can finally lay that turd to rest once and for all and get out of the way of Macross licensing in the Americas.

CN play something that doesn't appeal to stoner's , has a plot and has an ending? Blasphemy!!!

Yeah, I can't see them doing it either... at least not these days.

One reason I read was it because his hands are too big for his keyboard and he keeps hitting the caps lock key so he just leaves it on.

As far as I've heard from people who've asked him directly, he's just lazy.

[Atharun]

I would imagine that, if nothing comes of the live action rights, then that HG will either try to -

1.Get an animated series sponsored, or try to keep the property alive via D2DVD

2.Sell Robotech

3.Kill the line

Depending on which occurs, Macross may or may not come stateside. but I imagine if it does, Manga Ent. or Bandai would be the prime candidates to pick up the license.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Richardmvela

[ps99042]

I would imagine that, if nothing comes of the live action rights, then that HG will either try to -

1.Get an animated series sponsored, or try to keep the property alive via D2DVD

2.Sell Robotech

3.Kill the line

Depending on which occurs, Macross may or may not come stateside. but I imagine if it does, Manga Ent. or Bandai would be the prime candidates to pick up the license.

1. If, by animated series, you mean television series, I don't see that happening as McKeever has explained on multiple occasion the obstacles to getting something on tv - nice to know they've "thought" of it at least. Most likely, in the absence of the LAM, HG would continue with the direct to DVD releases and just do side stories forever to bank on the nostalgia factor.

2. Sell Robotech? But all they'd have left is their real estate and I don't think Yune, Yun, and McKeever are qualified to handle that though HG has faith in them regarding Robotech so who knows?

3. They've already come close to doing this many times so it's doubtful they'd go all the way. Deep coma, more than what's going on at the moment, is definitely an option though.

[Atharun]

Here's the thing, Yune, Yun, and McKeever can do whatever they want, HOWEVER in the end it is a business. If the higher ups at HG see determine that the lack of forward movement and potential costs of keeping the franchise are too much, then expect the people in charge to be swept away. remember that they replaced someone and likewise can be replaced themselves.

[blackconvoy_D01]

Honestly, I am shocked that higher ups from WB, License holders overseas, and any other operation that's tied to HG, don't look at what we speak about pertaining to Robotech and somehow jump in and take it over. Via buyout or whatever other means.

[Keith]

Honestly, I am shocked that higher ups from WB, License holders overseas, and any other operation that's tied to HG, don't look at what we speak about pertaining to Robotech and somehow jump in and take it over. Via buyout or whatever other means.

License holders such as Tatsunoko don't care, they get their annual fee's regardless of what HG does. WB on the other hand doesn't care, those who even remember what they paid for, problably forced a non-compete type contract, preventing HG from releasing any contradictiary stories to what WB would eventually (if ever) release, so the quieter they are, the better for now.

[azrael]

... But all they'd have left is their real estate ...

Again, I have to remind you people that beyond real estate, HG does international distribution, acquisition, and licensing of shows and films. RT is really just a tiny little speck in their listings.

[Atharun]

When you look at a series like Voltron, which has similarities to Robotecvh, you look at the track record and see that they have accomplished things where RT has not and you wonder if (all things equal) management will ever get the wake up call.

look at it this way -

Robotech -

Macross, Southern Cross, Mospeada

Robotech II- Failed

Robotech:The Movie - Failed

Robotech 3K - Failed

Robotech:The Shadow Chronicles - Released

Voltron -

Beast King Go-Lion, Dairugger

Voltron:Fleet of Doom - Aired and released on DVD

Voltron:The Third Dimension - 26 episodes made and aired.

Voltron Force - Airing this year.

You take two series made in similar fashion and you see one succeed while the other languishes time and time and again. This leads me to believe that Robotech needs a "redo" and someone to actually go in a breathe fresh air into it.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Richardmvela

[Jasonc]

I would imagine that, if nothing comes of the live action rights, then that HG will either try to -

1.Get an animated series sponsored, or try to keep the property alive via D2DVD

2.Sell Robotech

3.Kill the line

Depending on which occurs, Macross may or may not come stateside. but I imagine if it does, Manga Ent. or Bandai would be the prime candidates to pick up the license.

With the first option, the difference between Robotech and Voltron is that Voltron has revamped and has been able to adapt to the times. Because of that, it has been able to reemerge as a fresh, viable series. Robotech's biggest problem, is that it rode the coattails of its short success for way longer than it should have. The best thing they could've done was keep the story going and phase out the old designs early, so that fans wouldn't be so attached to them, like they are now. Also, like Voltron, and with other series making comebacks, they could've done a redo of the entire series, and introduce new character designs, and new "veritech" designs, that would've given them a free realm to go in a more creative direction.

Second option is probably the hope of Frank Agrama, but as it appears now, Robotech isn't the most viable property to do anything with. It seems like if any company is going to take over the franchise, I'm sure they're going to want to make something of it. There are so many loop holes to jump through with the licensing and IP issues, it maybe enough to not make this franchise worth as much as the yun brothers want to make it out to seem

Option 3 would be a nightmare for HG. I'm sure they'd rather sell it, than not do anything with it. Even as a Robotech fan, I'd rather see the franchise get out of their hands, or just disappear, than have it constantly go down the road it is with an inept staff, and a small amount of fans who worsen the franchise even more. Better to remember it's goodness back when it started, than to have it fizzle out in despair.

Here's the thing, Yune, Yun, and McKeever can do whatever they want, HOWEVER in the end it is a business. If the higher ups at HG see determine that the lack of forward movement and potential costs of keeping the franchise are too much, then expect the people in charge to be swept away. remember that they replaced someone and likewise can be replaced themselves.

You do realize that Tommy and Steve are both brothers, right? Basically, the staff is Tommy Yun, and McKeever. Tommy and Steve probably count as one person, as Steve just does whatever Tommy says and does. Then again, McKeever is just a glorified receptionist. As for the HG higher ups, who knows. Maybe they don't care enough about the franchise to give it a real staff, and respect to stand on its own away from Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada.

Honestly, I am shocked that higher ups from WB, License holders overseas, and any other operation that's tied to HG, don't look at what we speak about pertaining to Robotech and somehow jump in and take it over. Via buyout or whatever other means.

I think that's why HG is putting all their hope into WB making this LAM. If it does go through, Robotech's "viability" will go up, and hopefully the company that made the movie will pick it up. Afterall, how many companies out there actually have licenses to make Robotech product? As it stands, not many. It seems like they've let a lot of those licenses expire and may go to WB in hopes of them absorbing it all, including the issues of not being able to use the original Macross designs.

I would hope that if that happened (WB buying the franchise), that they'd be willing to allow Macross to come over here, and if they did make more Robotech, that it'd be redone, so that it's an original series, not copied mecha and character designs.

[MacrossCN]

Guys, there are some files about MACROSS Trademark:

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%95%86%E6%A8%99%E5%95%8F%E9%A1%8C

商標審決データベース 2001-02-05 異議申立 第1088733号 「登録第4430312号商標」「Macross」の文字(標準文字による横書き)の商標登録を維持する

http://shohyo.shinketsu.jp/decision/tm/view/ViewDecision.do?number=1088733

商標審決データベース 2001-05-21 異議申立 第1088731号 「登録第4453459号商標」の『マクロス』の日本語カタカナを英文字変換の上、横書きした『Macross』標章の商標登録を維持する。

http://shohyo.shinketsu.jp/decision/tm/view/ViewDecision.do?number=1088731

[Moly_Sigang]

Okay i just read Maverick's long explanation about the Berne Convention and how before the US joined in the late 80's, Robotech already had it's copyright enforced under the US copyright laws, and has this exemption from Berne Convention while also being covered by it when the US joined . Care to explain more about the US copyright act of 1978 and it's relationship to the Berne Convention?

[Shaorin]

First off. Is his Caps Lock key broken?

Or does he always type like an *sshole?

and furthermore, if his Caps Lock IS broke, why can't he just go buy a new Keyboard?

[Jasonc]

Okay i just read Maverick's long explanation about the Berne Convention and how before the US joined in the late 80's, Robotech already had it's copyright enforced under the US copyright laws, and has this exemption from Berne Convention while also being covered by it when the US joined . Care to explain more about the US copyright act of 1978 and it's relationship to the Berne Convention?

It really doesn't matter how much "logic" he'll try to put into his argument, it's not going to change the FACTS. How many times are we going to see some retarded attempt to legitimize some fanboy's delusion into thinking HG can just use all the original Macross designs in new productions? Either they're dumb@sses, or mentally challenged. HG new they couldn't do that with Sentenels back in 86, and from conversations with current and previous staff through the years, they've cut some verbage specific to Macross, and all the designs out because they couldn't use them without getting slapped with a fat lawsuit. It would be interesting to listen to that explanation, but crap under a pretty sugar coating is still crap.

I can understand why they keep wanting to go this route in a way. The Macross franchise is the anchor to Robotech. If it was possible, these same people would have Macross Zero, Plus, and Frontier as part of the Robotech franchise, because it's got that much appeal. In a way, it's like "Franchise Envy", so they're going to try to take small, insignificant jabs at facts, so that it fits what they want to believe in their own little Robotech world. It's quite sad, but funny. Aside from a curiosity, this Explanation is nothing but a feeble attempt at legitimizing Robotech, but has no bearing on the facts that be. It's all been addressed before, and the documentation is out there. They just don't believe it until Tommy says so. Now, how funny is that?

[Zen72]

Ok, I think I'm seeing DOUBLE here.

There's this;

http://robotechnews.blogspot.com/

And now THIS?

http://norobotechnews.blogspot.com/

I think we've just entered THE ROBOTECH NEWS ZONE...

[Jasonc]

Ok, I think I'm seeing DOUBLE here.

There's this;

http://robotechnews.blogspot.com/

And now THIS?

http://norobotechnews.blogspot.com/

I think we've just entered THE ROBOTECH NEWS ZONE...

There's your Robotech news. "No Gnus is good Gnus" -Gary Gnu- Robotech should hire him to run the website, see here

[Zen72]

There's your Robotech news. "No Gnus is good Gnus" -Gary Gnu- Robotech should hire him to run the website, see here

[Einherjar]

http://norobotechnews.blogspot.com/

They should really be doing something for a change with those kinds of numbers. Oh wait, they're just an licensee, not actual creators of a franchise.

[HappyPenguins]

lmao........you paid too much

holy $h!T http://www.amazon.com/Robotech-Shadow-Chronicles-United-Expeditionary/dp/B00185WPV8/ref=sr_1_6?s=apparel&qlEnable=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1302458860&sr=1-6 now you can get that wallet much cheaper LOL

Edited April 10, 2011 by HappyPenguins

[azrael]

Guys, there are some files about MACROSS Trademark:

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%95%86%E6%A8%99%E5%95%8F%E9%A1%8C

商標審決データベース 2001-02-05 異議申立 第1088733号 「登録第4430312号商標」「Macross」の文字(標準文字による横書き)の商標登録を維持する

http://shohyo.shinketsu.jp/decision/tm/view/ViewDecision.do?number=1088733

商標審決データベース 2001-05-21 異議申立 第1088731号 「登録第4453459号商標」の『マクロス』の日本語カタカナを英文字変換の上、横書きした『Macross』標章の商標登録を維持する。

http://shohyo.shinketsu.jp/decision/tm/view/ViewDecision.do?number=1088731

In case anybody is trying to figure out kresphy is posting, these are Japanese trademark office's decisions from 2001 on the "Macross" trademark in Japan by HG (I think) from their US trademark. Simply put, they were denied. But we already knew that. Either way, nice read.

[Einherjar]

Okay i just read Maverick's long explanation about the Berne Convention and how before the US joined in the late 80's, Robotech already had it's copyright enforced under the US copyright laws, and has this exemption from Berne Convention while also being covered by it when the US joined . Care to explain more about the US copyright act of 1978 and it's relationship to the Berne Convention?

[macross_fan99]

In case anybody is trying to figure out kresphy is posting, these are Japanse courts' decisions from 2001 on the "Macross" trademark in Japan by HG (I think) from their US trademark. Simply put, they were denied. But we already knew that. Either way, nice read.

Please tell me that HG didn't try to copyright the Macross name in Japan when someone already had it.

That would seem like a really stupid thing to even attempt.

[HappyPenguins]

Please tell me that HG didn't try to copyright the Macross name in Japan when someone already had it.

That would seem like a really stupid thing to even attempt.

Well they're dumb enough to stop production on "non-profited" fan works

so I wouldn't doubt it

[Dynaman]

Well they're dumb enough to stop production on "non-profited" fan works

so I wouldn't doubt it

Putting a stop to non-profit fan works is not stupid, in HG's situation it is pretty much required. Once they know about a derivative work they have to put a stop to it or they could end up losing some copyright protection.

[azrael]

I should correct myself, it's the Japanese Patents & Trademarks office denial of trademark, not the courts.

Please tell me that HG didn't try to copyright the Macross name in Japan when someone already had it.

That would seem like a really stupid thing to even attempt.

It's not a copyright. It's a trademark request they made after they got the trademark from the USPTO. Was it stupid? Most definitely. But this is probably something they did for procedure. The 2 requests seem to indicate that HG is a 3rd-party in the Tatsunoko/Big West copyright & trademark. They are not allowed to make that trademark request because the original scope only applies to USA and Canada and would be redundant in Japan. Judging by the dates, this seem to have been issued right before Tatsunoko tried to sued Bandai for restitution from Macross.

[ps99042]

lmao........you paid too much

holy $h!T http://www.amazon.com/Robotech-Shadow-Chronicles-United-Expeditionary/dp/B00185WPV8/ref=sr_1_6?s=apparel&qlEnable=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1302458860&sr=1-6 now you can get that wallet much cheaper LOL

You'd better hurry, as of this moment they only 1 left in stock!

[taksraven]

ROBOTECH = Dead franchise walking.

[Smegalot]

I agree RT is a dieing franchise. A long slow death but it is happening. Still this debate is interesting.

Interesting, that they have only distribution rights in USA and Canada.

My only new question is. Why has no Austrailian company gone on the band wagon and tried to release it?, Bu then again. I do know. we have the trade agreement with the USA which means if it is copyrighted by an American company we can not do it. John Howard has done a great bit of screwing up us over........

[chrisk]

You'd better hurry, as of this moment they only 1 left in stock!

ROBOTECH = Dead franchise walking.

The aging Robotech fanbase must be getting pretty agitated by the fact that they're getting left behind by the "competition". No thanks to Harmony Gold's continued laziness and inaction, of course. Harmony Gold's entire business model is based on bad quality photos of their yearly convention tours, mystery boxes of rehashed merchandise, and the staff having a merry old time. How is this supposed to be compelling? What possessed the marketing director to even think a showing a picture of a harddrive, and "implying" they have stuff in the works is a good thing? Are these longtime Robotech fans' standards that low?

I guess people were mistaken to think Shadow Chronicles was supposed to set a new bar or something and that was almost half a decade ago.

Not entirely sure how much excitement another Robotech Documentary is supposed to be, compared to say, a full-fledged OVA, new concept art or illustration or an announcement for a brand new animated series. It would be nice as a farewell to Macek, but this seems like something they should have cobbled last year in the actual 25th anniversary. Besides, do they have access to Macross footage? Every time they do these stunts, I wonder what new assumptions they'll make, and what they'll do to demean the Japanese Macross side of things.

Bah. If people want to waste their money on a made-in-China wallet, let them. It just shows how low the standards the diehard fanboys have to contend with these days. In the meantime, I'll be spending my hard-earned money and mindshare elsewhere.

RANT OVER.

Edited April 11, 2011 by chrisk

[hulagu]

Not entirely sure how much excitement another Robotech Documentary is supposed to be, compared to say, a full-fledged OVA, new concept art or illustration or an announcement for a brand new animated series. It would be nice as a farewell to Macek, but this seems like something they should have cobbled last year in the actual 25th anniversary. Besides, do they have access to Macross footage? Every time they do these stunts, I wonder what new assumptions they'll make, and what they'll do to demean the Japanese Macross side of things.

They should take the bullshit meter all the way to eleven and make it into a ludicriously overblown "very loosely based on a true story" mockumentary about the making of Robotech like Gundam Sousei. That would at least be entertaining.

Edited April 11, 2011 by hulagu

[HappyPenguins]

Putting a stop to non-profit fan works is not stupid, in HG's situation it is pretty much required. Once they know about a derivative work they have to put a stop to it or they could end up losing some copyright protection.

How is this so if it's just a fan work?

[Darkwater]

How is this so if it's just a fan work?

It is a fine line. It's like, legally, the copyright holders do have every right to stop fan fiction, yet some, like Star Trek and Star Wars, actually encourage it.

I think its because in the cases of those two franchises, it's pretty clear what's official and what is not. I think HG is a little edgy about fan fiction, because they honestly fear people mistaking it for their product.

Case in point: I made a Shadow Chronicles trailer directly after recording some animatics at a convention back in 2005. I got a lot of compliments on it, and it started a bunch of "Look what Darkwater can do but HG can't!" posts on Robotech.com

Tommy sent me a pretty condescending email, and after reading it 15 times I was able to understand what he was saying (he can't give a direct answer even when he wants, apparently). He basically said my trailer could get confused for something official, and "don't overestimate the intelligence of some people on the internet." even though there was a disclaimer at the beginning and end of it. He also got mad at me when I posted a fan poster for Shadow Chronicles in RDF-HQ's Fan Works forum, saying it was a "very bad thing" for them.

So, basically, in HG's case, they're worried that you, as a fan, won't be able to tell the difference between something that's a fan work and something that's real. They're keeping YOUR best interests at mind.