Final Fantasy XIII

[David Hingtgen]

FF13 is like if Mass Effect put all the plot in the codex. You've GOT to read the "Datalog". Or really, the Datalog seems to just be the little "current summary" they give you when you load a save. Except that, most people aren't going to stop, quit, then load at EVERY plot point to see them. So you miss out on a lot--or at least, you need to read it to make sense of what you just heard the characters discussing.

It's almost like they made the plot "optional reading". All you get to actually see is the character interaction. Only a few hours in, but I still feel like "there's a good, epic story in this world--we just don't really get to see it".

Quite a few FF games "throw you in the middle of it" at the start but this one takes it to an extreme, and seems to rarely explain any of it.

[eugimon]

I'm not digging the combat system. I understand why in past games they had to pull you out of the map into an arena for battles but there's no technological need to do that anymore and it just serves to break any momentum the plot is building up.

Also not digging the real time/menu based combat. Adding layers of key presses is not the same thing as depth.

But so far, I'm liking it.. hasn't really hooked me but apparently this game is a slow cooker so no worries.

Edited March 10, 2010 by eugimon

[mikeszekely]

Even though I really disliked XII (and I still maintain that the series peaked with IV), I'm not prepared to write off FFXIII just yet. It is, however, going to have to go on the backburner for a bit. After paying the ol' bills I've been a bit tight lately, and I just realized the other day that God of War III and the retail expansion for Dragon Age come out the same day, so I've gotta figure out how to pay those off first.

[Duke Togo]

I'd also like to throw out the idea that the game is pretty stripped down and uncomplicated. Probably even worse than FF7 that is usually criticized for such things.

Um, wha?

[eugimon]

Even though I really disliked XII (and I still maintain that the series peaked with IV), I'm not prepared to write off FFXIII just yet. It is, however, going to have to go on the backburner for a bit. After paying the ol' bills I've been a bit tight lately, and I just realized the other day that God of War III and the retail expansion for Dragon Age come out the same day, so I've gotta figure out how to pay those off first.

take penny arcade's advice and save GoW III for the summer.

[mikeszekely]

take penny arcade's advice and save GoW III for the summer.

Yeah, I could... or I could play it when it comes out and play Final Fantasy XIII in the summer.

[David Hingtgen]

I actually like the combat so far---it's surprisingly "smart" but possibly because the options are limited. When there's multiple enemies clustered together, it's actually smart enough to auto-select "Blitz" for me---it does what I'd do often enough that I find myself just hitting "auto-battle". Of course, I suspect later on when there's a lot more options/abilites, and enemies tend to have more complicated defenses I'll need to do it manually a lot more often.

Also--very, very fast. But easy so far. Only died once, against the first serious boss. (and I was being stupid by going directly against what the tutorial said in an effort to beat it quickly--almost worked)

[wolfx]

Might as well make a seperate thread for it.

My initial impressions:

3-4 hours into the game so far and i see why ppl are complaining about this game. You are forced to play the story mode so that means no diverging from the main story until probably later. The story maps, suffice to say are very linear and offer little divergence. You walk in a straight line from point A to point B and that's it. You only move away from the path to get to "secret" treasure chests. Not very secret actually.

The main problem people might have with the game is of course the battle system, which takes out "micromanagement" of your party. you only control Lightning. The rest of your party members automatically attack, cast spells, and heal based on their roles set by their paradigm system. So imagine you don't really need to make small decisions like "cast cure on character A" and stuff like that . I can see why most people have a problem with this system but I'm not so sure if i hate it yet. It makes you a high level decision maker rather than a low level one and it makes the battle very fast paced compared to the older FF ATB systems.

The Crystanium levelling up system is also very very linear with little to offer in terms of customising your characters. The only decision you make is during leveling up with diverging crystals, which skill/stat you'll choose before the other, and that's about it.

And also seems like for the 3 hours into the game so far, i spent 60% of the time watching cinematics rather than playing.

[kanedaestes]

Yes it is true the game is linear at the beginning, but it does become open world towards the latter half of the game.

[eugimon]

I'm used to FF being linear, it doesn't surprise nor does it disappoint.. it's just the blahness of the combat.

I just don't see the point of being dragged into an arena, it just seems like a hold over from back when such concessions were needed. The real time/menu combat is boring and "auto-battle" just feels like the combat designer knew the system was crap and just decided to add a button that gets you through it so you can move on to the next cinematic.

I really hope the story and characters pick up because the actual game mechanics just feel like same old, same old to me.

[kanedaestes]

At the beginning they designed the battle system to be easy so you can get used to it, only to get progressively harder and more intricate later on in the game as you acquire more abilities and moves and stuff.

[BeyondTheGrave]

Never played a FF game ...too much of the stand in one spot and get my face punched in. want to try this one but idk.

[kanedaestes]

BTW I am not necessarily defending the game though I do enjoy it so far. All the things I have posted have been stated in both the guide book which I cracked open once and closed, and other reliable sources.

[eugimon]

BTW I am not necessarily defending the game though I do enjoy it so far. All the things I have posted have been stated in both the guide book which I cracked open once and closed, and other reliable sources.

yeah, I'm sure it will get more complicated but that's the other thing, having to cycle through menus to do what you want in a real time engine is just kind of dumb.

making game play more obtuse is not a good way to make the game more difficult/challenging.

[Duke Togo]

Also--very, very fast. But easy so far. Only died once, against the first serious boss. (and I was being stupid by going directly against what the tutorial said in an effort to beat it quickly--almost worked)

I did what you did, but I made it with around 20 health left, lol.

[David Hingtgen]

Yeah, I was ticked, I think seriously 1 more attack would have taken it down.

Anyways---I feel stupid. I only just now recognized Lightning's voice actress. And I really should have figured it out pretty early on.

PS--I'm in the "normal enemies are a major threat now, until you figure out exactly what paradigms you need" section of the game I think... Certain groups of enemies are tougher than most boss fights.

[Vepariga]

Im just gonna wait to see how FFXIII Versus turns out.

[Gaijin]

Vanille's voice acting is irritating me. I'm actually ok with the dub for this otherwise. But dual voice tracks would've been better.

[wolfx]

I felt this like a step backwards from FFXII which was in its own right a very good game. You get to move around the city, go to other cities, have side hunting quests etc. But oh well i'm probably too early into FFXIII anyway so i'll give further impressions as i get further into the game.

[Keith]

I'm really enjoying this movie so far, I'm 2/3rds into the second chapter. i just wish they released it with Japanese audio & english subtitles!

[David Hingtgen]

Gah! It was discussed twice that FF13 was NOT going to have a separate thread and all discussion was going to be in the PS3 thread. And it has been up to this point. And I won't risk merging the PS3 thread. (merging is evil, it rarely turns out right and really screws things up when it doesn't) So I'll have to move the PS3 posts from there, over here...

::edit:: Ok, that's the best I can do----it's impossible to merge a thread or move posts and retain the "original" first post as the first one in the modified thread. Here is the actual first post of the thread: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...st&p=837273

[Gaijin]

I am about 5 hours in so far. Can now use Paradigm shifts and got the first Eidolon. Didn't think the Paradigm's would really make much of a difference but it does add quite a bit of strategy to the fights. Battles up until the first tougher enemies seemed out of place until you have a swarm of them chewing your people to shreds. Paradigm Shift!

Edited March 11, 2010 by Gaijin

[David Hingtgen]

Save a lot of time/frustration in chapter 4, read this! (combining what I learned tonight with stuff I just read a few mins ago online)

Deprotect on Pulsework Soldiers. Trust me. Even if you're using only magic attacks. It's the only way you'll get them staggered (and you'll never kill them without staggering). That whole section sucks, and I never did quite figure out the trick (mainly because it made absolutely no sense---apparently Deprotect acts somewhat like a Commando ability in "preventing the stagger bar from draining"---only it's not mentioned ANYWHERE in the game) I did notice that the only time I seemed to be able to stagger was when they had BOTH debuffs on them, but it didn't seem consistent.

You're going to want to have both Deprotect and Deshell on them every time you fight one. And try to keep casting it even if they're already affected---it seems to be a cumulative effect (that, or the stagger effect is much shorter-lived than the actual debuff effect). Vanille is always AI-controlled here, so basically keep her as a saboteur (and hope the AI casts both spells a lot) until you can see that Sazh is actually able to build up to a stagger on his own as a ravager--then and only then switch her to ravager too.

Alternately, use a commando/ravager pair---simpler, but takes way longer in almost all cases.

[David Hingtgen]

Separate post just for impressions: Chapter 4 sucks for the section using Sazh/Vanille. Seems pretty much everyone agrees. Utilize the info in my post above to help--should save a lot of time or retries. It is needlessly annoying/tough through there, dunno why. Also, when you activate the power-thingy with them (that's what it is), it's probably not worth going back for the things you just passed that were obviously just waiting for you to power up the "master" one. More fights, harder, and all you get are some better-than-average component bits.

Got my second eidolon---very tough fight. Died about 4 times in a row in the first 5 secs--think I was just unlucky though. Took about 2 or 3 more to figure it out. If you want to know, here's how to beat it (I won't reveal who it is, just how to beat it)

Everybody ravage when he puts his shield up. Just heal at most other times---healing actually increases his gestalt bar---and I think it works much better when they're near death--but that's big risk to take with how quickly he can kill you)

Oh, and don't worry about "watching too many cutscenes" around chapter 4. You'll beg for them just for a break from fighting bombs and pulsework soldiers.

[wolfx]

I am about 5 hours in so far. Can now use Paradigm shifts and got the first Eidolon. Didn't think the Paradigm's would really make much of a difference but it does add quite a bit of strategy to the fights. Battles up until the first tougher enemies seemed out of place until you have a swarm of them chewing your people to shreds. Paradigm Shift!

Oh they DO help.....and some battles drag out too long or are not winnable unless you shift paradigms often.

Save a lot of time/frustration in chapter 4, read this! (combining what I learned tonight with stuff I just read a few mins ago online)

Deprotect on Pulsework Soldiers. Trust me. Even if you're using only magic attacks. It's the only way you'll get them staggered (and you'll never kill them without staggering). That whole section sucks, and I never did quite figure out the trick (mainly because it made absolutely no sense---apparently Deprotect acts somewhat like a Commando ability in "preventing the stagger bar from draining"---only it's not mentioned ANYWHERE in the game) I did notice that the only time I seemed to be able to stagger was when they had BOTH debuffs on them, but it didn't seem consistent.

You're going to want to have both Deprotect and Deshell on them every time you fight one. And try to keep casting it even if they're already affected---it seems to be a cumulative effect (that, or the stagger effect is much shorter-lived than the actual debuff effect). Vanille is always AI-controlled here, so basically keep her as a saboteur (and hope the AI casts both spells a lot) until you can see that Sazh is actually able to build up to a stagger on his own as a ravager--then and only then switch her to ravager too.

Alternately, use a commando/ravager pair---simpler, but takes way longer in almost all cases.

Yes. OR you get Lightning as a ravager to cast thunder to make it an easy win. I didn't find the Sazh x Vanille pair to be hard, just abit annoying that I have to control a support character (Sazh in Synergiser mode).

Generally if you're taking too long killing something, you're doing something not right. Rethink your paradigms.

[David Hingtgen]

wolfx--I'm curious--tell me exactly what you did for a typical "two pulsework soldiers" fight with only Vanille and Sazh that you didn't find it hard/annoying/long. There's a lot of people on the FAQ boards etc that had the exact same experience I did with that section.

[bluemax151]

From my more recent playtime I've come to the conclusion that every aspect of Vanille's character is like nails on a chalk board to me. She's like this games Yuffie/Selphie/etc. I also still don't feel like I'm even playing this game.

[wolfx]

wolfx--I'm curious--tell me exactly what you did for a typical "two pulsework soldiers" fight with only Vanille and Sazh that you didn't find it hard/annoying/long. There's a lot of people on the FAQ boards etc that had the exact same experience I did with that section.

Nothing you didn't already mentioned. Cast de-protect and de-shell on them, Bravery on selves, then dual ravage one till you get the chain break and the rest is easy. Rinse and repeat with 2nd pulsework soldier.

I can't remember my rating for them though. It wasn't 5 stars thats for sure. 3 or 4. You sometimes have to press triangle on that final chain breaking attack because if you don't the chain combo meter might reset before your usual 3 attacks are ready.

[David Hingtgen]

Boss of chapter 5 (another part oft-complained about in the forums) I'm going to say is "randomly difficult". It'll basically be either very long and drawn out or easy. I totally kicked his ass in like 2 mins the second time due to "random element changes in my favor", but he just BARELY killed my 2nd member at the end and that made it impossible to take off that last 2%. Literally another round would have taken him out for a grand total of like 2 mins. Took several more attempts to beat it, even though I had it 100% figured out---it just kept screwing with me on the element-shift.

3rd and 4th times---died, experimented a bit, etc.

5th time---worked, but took 5 mins. Still considered 5 stars/quick, but took twice as long as when you're lucky. Basically---if it switches to lightning or water weakness, Lightning can kick his ass. But if he decides to do ice-weakness like 4 times in a row, you're kinda screwed for a while, as there's no way to do ice at all with Lightning at that point. And "blizzard" alone from your helper is not going to get the job done. At best you can hope to just maintain the stagger bar at it's present level and wait for another shift to start building it up more. Also, a lightning-summon (spoiler-free term) is not really that useful or effective even when it's lightning-weak. I'd suggest ignoring the opportunity and continue focusing on building the bar to stagger it. (since a summon will reset the bar) It takes tremendous damage when staggered, but it takes forever to build the bar---but that's the only way really. (seems to be the theme of the game lately--"must stagger") Note---if it's under say 1/3 HP a lightning-summon would probably be worth it, assuming the stagger bar is high enough that the summoning would fill the bar and you can kill it with the summon.

And of course, if it's staggered when water or lightning weak, Lightning can REALLY kick it's ass---like 100K HP off for the duration. But again---only if you're lucky. You'll have to do this 2 or 3 times if the elements are "wrong" for you when it occurs. In short---if you get lucky and get water/lightning weakness often enough you'll take it down in 2 mins. If it does "bad for you" element switching, should take 5-6 mins+, or even be basically impossible.

[wolfx]

Finished the giant pokemon-like boss as well. Why do people complain about this boss? It took me 2-3 minutes but I hardly think its due to random factors. I didn't even know that its weaknesses changed lol.

I'd say that Lightning's "Launch" ability is too awesome for its own good. It basically makes a staggered foe useless especially if its a big boss character.

David, I'm assuming you have your characters with at least level 2-3 weapons and almost all roles leveled up to level 2 at least by that boss fight? And yeah that lightning summon was pretty useless.

[David Hingtgen]

IIRC level 3 weap for Lightning, lvl 2 for Hope. And utterly maxed abilities. Level 2 accessories (STR+ and MAG+ respectively). And hey--I didn't know its weakness either for the time I absolutely wailed on it and didn't know what I was doing. But when I *did* know exactly what to do, it took longer! Trust me, if it goes fire-fire-fire-fire it's going to be a long fight. If it goes water-thunder-ice-water it'll be quick. I know that if I fought it again several times, sometimes it'd be down in 2 mins, and other times take well over 5.

The fact that you didn't notice the weakness changing may be because it went water-water-water-water or lit-lit-lit-lit etc. Which would be the "best possible" sequence for killing it quickly. I've seen it remain the same element for pretty much the entire fight.

[wolfx]

Guess i was lucky then. LOL. i'm actually surprised u went back to fight it a few more times again just to see why people were talking about that boss fight. You have dedication.

[CrusherJ]

Man I can't wait to get to where you guys are! I got it on Tuesday and played little over an hour (the characters switched from Lightning to Snow then Lightning again when I quit), but I haven't had a chance to pick it up again. Maybe tonight, definitely tomorrow. At least I'll be prepared for some of the upcoming fights thanks to your tips.

[wolfx]

Didn't get to play much today in terms of advancing the story, but I was taking my sweet time killing scaled beasts and wyverns and all manners of fauna with Vanille and Sazh. Yes both the rainy ones and the sunny ones.

Massive CP to be had.

[David Hingtgen]

Yes, much CP, but I hate wyverns. Only killed one, ignored the rest. Sheer matter of pride, as it killed me the first 2 times until I realized that it always casts deprotect on my party. Their CP isn't worth the time it takes to kill them. Flandragoras are MUCH better for CP/time. I am embarrassed that I was killed by mud frogs once. When they start calling in reinforcements...

Storywise---I think I've finally got enough backstory to start understanding/caring about the characters. But it sure took a while---too long IMHO. Vanille is still annoying though, and her "super-obvious from the beginning" secret still hasn't been officially revealed, just keeps hinting at it.