HG and Robotech Debates

[Seto Kaiba]

Either this or Yune forgot to consult the company lawyer and said something he really shouldn't have. Unless something has changed in the relations between both sides that we are not aware off.

Unlikely, IMO. In light of the fact that it was an informal panel, it seems far more likely that Tommy simply failed to check the facts with senior management and the lawyers. Had something major actually changed in the relationship between the creators of Macross and Harmony Gold, it's HIGHLY unlikely that Harmony Gold would've kept it quiet. That would've been front-page news on their website the day it happened, since it'd be the biggest coup in Robotech's twenty-five years of mediocrity and failure.

No, smart money says this is a slip of the forked tongue by Tommy Yune... one the company lawyers are no doubt already scolding him for.

What a waste, especially for MEMO. Why would he go all the way to San Francisco for the first stop of the Robotech Convention Tour? Was he really hoping that anything would come out of this because of the 25th anniversary? Of course, he can spin it around saying he met Carl Macek and etc. and a lot of the fandom there, but the whole event didn't reveal anything.

The answers to your questions are:

Q: Why would he go all the way to San Francisco for the first stop of the Robotech Convention Tour?

A: Foolish optimism, wishful thinking, and blind faith stemming from his complete and total inability to spot a pattern in Harmony Gold's behavior over the past twenty-five years and a general unwillingness to admit that the franchise he's given so much to over the years will never give anything back.

Q: Was he really hoping that anything would come out of this because of the 25th anniversary?

A: Yes.

Odds are MEMO will spin this however he can so that Harmony Gold comes out smelling of roses and he can continue to believe that Robotech will one day wow us all with its awesomeness instead of continuing to quietly decay in a dingy corner of the internet most people pretend doesn't exist. MEMO doesn't see it as a waste, for him the convention tour will always be proof that Robotech hasn't curled up, shat itself, and died.

Same ol' sh*t, just with a Robotech 25 anniversary sticker on top of it. If there is anything to be done, I'm sure, once again, it'll be left up to the fans to do it. HG's way of saying we're too damn cheap to really put something together.

Don't tell me you're surprised by that... it was inevitable. Somehow, I seem to have become wrapped up in it to such an extent that I'm still working on a replacement for the fansite MEMO ruined with his almost Soviet attitude towards dissent, and have apparently drawn down the attention of more than one Robotech voice actor in the offing, though JT is at least partially to blame for that.

EDIT: O.M.F.G.. Pizza is taking MEMO to task over AOD and Harmony Gold's failure to deliver there too. Gentlemen, I think we may have to consider that the proverbial honeymoon is over and the subject has contracted a terminal case of logical thinking where Robotech and Harmony Gold are concerned. He may very well be outgrowing the antics we so often criticized him for. I must confess... I am genuinely surprised.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[HappyPenguins]

Don't tell me you're surprised by that... it was inevitable. Somehow, I seem to have become wrapped up in it to such an extent that I'm still working on a replacement for the fansite MEMO ruined with his almost Soviet attitude towards dissent, and have apparently drawn down the attention of more than one Robotech voice actor in the offing, though JT is at least partially to blame for that.

wait, what? what voice actor now?

EDIT: O.M.F.G.. Pizza is taking MEMO to task over AOD and Harmony Gold's failure to deliver there too. Gentlemen, I think we may have to consider that the proverbial honeymoon is over and the subject has contracted a terminal case of logical thinking where Robotech and Harmony Gold are concerned. He may very well be outgrowing the antics we so often criticized him for. I must confess... I am genuinely surprised.

I'm surprised too, wonder how much longer it will be till he's banned again

[Seto Kaiba]

wait, what? what voice actor now?

I did tell you how Michael Bradley's manager offered us a few old domain names they weren't using for the project, didn't I?

I'm surprised too, wonder how much longer it will be till he's banned again

He's already been perma-banned from Robotech.com, though I still can't find exactly where it went down... maybe the thread was deleted? Anyway, at the rate he's going over on RobotechX, it's only a matter of time before MEMO tires of Pizza's constant heckling of his propaganda threads and his much more realistic attitude towards Harmony Gold's rather anticlimactic 25th anniversary plans.

[Jasonc]

Don't tell me you're surprised by that... it was inevitable. Somehow, I seem to have become wrapped up in it to such an extent that I'm still working on a replacement for the fansite MEMO ruined with his almost Soviet attitude towards dissent, and have apparently drawn down the attention of more than one Robotech voice actor in the offing, though JT is at least partially to blame for that.

No, not surprised by that at all. I just like getting a good laugh at it, cause it was the same thing that they were relying on even before Shadow Rising came out. It would be nice if they did what they had done for their Robocon 20, but then again, without Tom Bateman as a true voice for the fans and someone who really wanted to make the franchise something positive, I wouldn't expect it to be anything like that.

Can you elaborate more on what you meant regarding the VA? Not quite getting that whole bit of info?

He's already been perma-banned from Robotech.com, though I still can't find exactly where it went down... maybe the thread was deleted? Anyway, at the rate he's going over on RobotechX, it's only a matter of time before MEMO tires of Pizza's constant heckling of his propaganda threads and his much more realistic attitude towards Harmony Gold's rather anticlimactic 25th anniversary plans.

Somehow, I remember when RTx first started, it was a site supposedly by the fans, for the fans. Somewhere along the path, it just became a rt.com extension. like a continuation school for dropouts (no offense) witht he same mods acting like they actually understand all this. That drama with PTH and Memo really says a lot about the new direction the mods want to go in. Aside from the usual minor skirmishes and debates, I don't think any MW members have brainwashed PTH. And yet, he seems to now be able to see through the B.S. that is being put out. Since we didn't do that, it has to be that it is becoming so blatantly obvious that the mods are full of it. Even the once loyal followers of the "gospel" of Robotech are figuring it out.

You know, even with some of the assinine comments PTH has said, I hope he becomes a better person through this, and realizes that we were never out to get him. Maybe this is something all RT fans must go through? Well, as Memo would say, HEHEHEHE (no offense, really)

Edited February 2, 2010 by Jasonc

[Einherjar]

The answers to your questions are:

Q: Why would he go all the way to San Francisco for the first stop of the Robotech Convention Tour?

A: Foolish optimism, wishful thinking, and blind faith stemming from his complete and total inability to spot a pattern in Harmony Gold's behavior over the past twenty-five years and a general unwillingness to admit that the franchise he's given so much to over the years will never give anything back.

Q: Was he really hoping that anything would come out of this because of the 25th anniversary?

A: Yes.

Odds are MEMO will spin this however he can so that Harmony Gold comes out smelling of roses and he can continue to believe that Robotech will one day wow us all with its awesomeness instead of continuing to quietly decay in a dingy corner of the internet most people pretend doesn't exist. MEMO doesn't see it as a waste, for him the convention tour will always be proof that Robotech hasn't curled up, shat itself, and died.

Very unexpected, since usually all important things entertainment-wise in the state happen in Southern California rather than Northern California. And as someone who has taken the drive from north to south too many times in his life, going here or there all to hear an old man talk about his glory days back in the 80's, and some Asian dude about his first incomplete animated film that's tries to complement it, it's definitely not worth it.

Somehow, I remember when RTx first started, it was a site supposedly by the fans, for the fans. Somewhere along the path, it just became a rt.com extension. like a continuation school for dropouts (no offense) witht he same mods acting like they actually understand all this. That drama with PTH and Memo really says a lot about the new direction the mods want to go in. Aside from the usual minor skirmishes and debates, I don't think any MW members have brainwashed PTH. And yet, he seems to now be able to see through the B.S. that is being put out. Since we didn't do that, it has to be that it is becoming so blatantly obvious that the mods are full of it. Even the once loyal followers of the "gospel" of Robotech are figuring it out.

You know, even with some of the assinine comments PTH has said, I hope he becomes a better person through this, and realizes that we were never out to get him. Maybe this is something all RT fans must go through? Well, as Memo would say, HEHEHEHE (no offense, really)

I have to disagree; PTH is only becoming more irritated with the current leadership for the franchise, Tommy Yune and wants Carl Macek back to bring it back to the glory days. He's turning into another dougbendo.

[azrael]

Unlikely, IMO. In light of the fact that it was an informal panel, it seems far more likely that Tommy simply failed to check the facts with senior management and the lawyers. Had something major actually changed in the relationship between the creators of Macross and Harmony Gold, it's HIGHLY unlikely that Harmony Gold would've kept it quiet. That would've been front-page news on their website the day it happened, since it'd be the biggest coup in Robotech's twenty-five years of mediocrity and failure.

No, smart money says this is a slip of the forked tongue by Tommy Yune... one the company lawyers are no doubt already scolding him for.

I doubt he'll get scolded, my boy. Notice how they keep using "Macross" and not "Macross franchise" or naming specific series in the "Macross franchise". Their trademark applies to "Macross", which is in reference to "Super Dimension Fortress Macross" or "Chou Jikuu Yousai Macross (Ma-Ku-Ro-Su). But as we've mentioned, they have a mark on "Macross" or "Ma-Ku-Ro-Su" or ｢マクロス｣ as well as the Chinese, Korean, or any Asian spelling of that word (It's all in the USPTO database for anybody to lookup, and I really suggest anyone interested to look it up. LINKY). And yes it applies to drawings. So there is some truth to his supposed statement, just not the exact truth.

[Seto Kaiba]

Can you elaborate more on what you meant regarding the VA? Not quite getting that whole bit of info?

Well, like I said, when it came out that we were planning to provide a more permanent, full-featured alternative for the mess RobotechX has become, and rolled a few other proposed/stalled projects into it as well, people started coming out of the woodwork to offer their assistance. Most of the offers of aid come from ordinary fans who are just fed up with the way the "new guard" are running the franchise and how their cronyism has wrecked the community by turning it into a modest but friendly group of ordinary fans into a tiny clique of heretic-hunting fanatics. One of the offers of aid we got was from Michael Bradley's manager, who offered to transfer ownership of one of their unused domain names to us for our use. I'm also still scouting writers for the reference section, and looking for a CMS that'll support what we're trying to do.

Finding reasonable writers seems to be something like pissing into the wind, since most of the few remaining folks who could be called experts on one or more of the Robotech sagas with a straight face also tend to be the ones who're backing (or originated) some of the crazy, baseless theories that do the rounds every now and again.

Somehow, I remember when RTx first started, it was a site supposedly by the fans, for the fans. Somewhere along the path, it just became a rt.com extension. like a continuation school for dropouts (no offense) witht he same mods acting like they actually understand all this.

It was a gradual decline right up to the point when the site started to attract the attention of the most bitter malcontents from other sites. Once they'd migrated to the site and started in with their "you're not a 'true' fan!" and decreed that the point of a fansite was to share your appreciation of the show, and that criticism of the show and its creators shouldn't be allowed. Once you had that, then things really went right to hell after the legal debates started on Robotech.com, which prompted MEMO to post an almost completely fictitious FAQ about it. When that was challenged, he turned to exiling all discussions of it to a part of the site only registered members could see so nothing would mar the illusion of accuracy in his FAQ in the eyes of the guests, and later just locking all of his "announcements" right away to stop people from telling him he was wrong. At that point, the bottom fell out and things went right to hell.

I have to disagree; PTH is only becoming more irritated with the current leadership for the franchise, Tommy Yune and wants Carl Macek back to bring it back to the glory days. He's turning into another dougbendo.

Actually, I disagree... PTH has shown signs that he acknowledges that Carl Macek didn't exactly do a fabulous job with Robotech either, but would rather have a sequel true to the original intent for the ongoing story rather than some weak-ass retcon-fest that looks like it's going to be another false start. The other thing that, to me, indicates he's not likely to go the dougbendo route is that he seems to be not only starting to realize why some his remarks come across as unduly hostile (and even apologizing for it!), but doesn't seem to be afraid to let bygones be bygones and ask for information when he doesn't understand something.

[Moly_Sigang]

I doubt he'll get scolded, my boy. Notice how they keep using "Macross" and not "Macross franchise" or naming specific series in the "Macross franchise". Their trademark applies to "Macross", which is in reference to "Super Dimension Fortress Macross" or "Chou Jikuu Yousai Macross (Ma-Ku-Ro-Su). But as we've mentioned, they have a mark on "Macross" or "Ma-Ku-Ro-Su" or ｢マクロス｣ as well as the Chinese, Korean, or any Asian spelling of that word (It's all in the USPTO database for anybody to lookup, and I really suggest anyone interested to look it up. LINKY). And yes it applies to drawings. So there is some truth to his supposed statement, just not the exact truth.

By drawings you mean like promotional arts for Robotech/Macross?

Edited February 2, 2010 by Moly_Sigang

[mecha2241]

Seto, here's link to answer your question about why PTH was perma-banned at RT.com:

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...;pagenumber=134

Seems he pissed off the nut jobs in this group too many times...

[azrael]

By drawings you mean like promotional arts for Robotech/Macross?

Yeah, I'm sure that's covered somewhere in comics. That is, if you consider it promotional art.

Serial #75750692

Word Mark MACROSS

Goods and Services IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: [ Socks, footwear, shirts, sweatshirts, pajamas, warm-up suits, coats, shorts, gym shorts dresses, clothing belts, bandannas, sweaters, gloves, ear muffs, neckwear, ski wear, slacks, sun visors, suspenders, turtlenecks vests ] headwear [ bathrobes, beachwear ]. FIRST USE: 20010930. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20010930

Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING

Serial #76288366

Word Mark MACROSS

Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Prerecorded video cassettes and compact discs featuring music and animation from an animated cartoon series; computer game software based on an animated cartoon series. FIRST USE: 19850114. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19850114

Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING

Serial #76385551

Word Mark MACROSS

Goods and Services IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Animated cartoon series delivered via a global computer network, television and satellite. FIRST USE: 20010800. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20010800

Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING

Serial #76382155

Word Mark MACROSS

Translations The English translation of the Japanese characters "Ma-Ku-Ro-Su" which means "MACROSS". The English translation of the Chinese characters "Chou Jikuu Yousai" is "super dimension fortress". The entire title is pronounced "Chou Jikuu Yousai Ma-Ku-Ro-Su" which is officially translated as "Super Dimension Fortress Macross".

Goods and Services IC 016. US 002 005 022 023 029 037 038 050. G & S: Comic books [ and novellas ]. FIRST USE: 19841203. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19841203 IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: Toy action figures. FIRST USE: 20020227. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20020227

Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS

Design Search Code 26.11.01 - Rectangles as carriers or rectangles as single or multiple line borders

26.11.21 - Rectangles that are completely or partially shaded

28.01.03 - Asian characters; Chinese characters; Japanese characters

Serial #76480124

Typed Drawing

Word Mark MACROSS

Goods and Services IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: Toy action figures. FIRST USE: 20020227. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20020227

Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING

[Seto Kaiba]

By drawings you mean like promotional arts for Robotech/Macross?

Azrael's wording is kind of ambiguous... you can't trademark promotional art or design art, that's a copyright matter. The trademark(s) in question cover the name "Macross" itself, the Japanese spelling, the original logo, and the use of same in merchandise. #75750692 covers its the use of the name and/or logo in apparel, #76288366 covers its use on DVD and VHS media, #76385551 covers its use in broadcast/webcast, #76382155 covers the name itself and the TV series logo, and #76480124 covers its use for action figures.

Seto, here's link to answer your question about why PTH was perma-banned at RT.com:

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...;pagenumber=134

Seems he pissed off the nut jobs in this group too many times...

Pretty much what I expected then, the Disciples of Leonard are pretty quick to jump down the throats of anyone who criticizes the character, so they draw a lot of hostility. I figured he'd got the boot for arguing with them over in Series & Stories, but it looks like he got away with that and then took it too far elsewhere. One would imagine the DoL would've given up after Tommy went one step further than Carl Macek did in making Leonard totally unlikable by not only making him out to be an incompetent leader, a raving megalomaniac, and a rather violent xenophobe, but also a traitor who was secretly working for the Anti-UN in the early years of the UN Gov't.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Einherjar]

This has probably been answered a dozen times here, but what has all of that really got them, especially now? They threat that as an ace in their cards, but it's only led to merchandise, stalled projects and little to no innovation at all. They don't have the drive or sense to do anything meaningful with it except make money off old stuff. They may "own" that stuff, but they didn't really make any of it.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Einherjar

[Seto Kaiba]

http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...;pagenumber=134

Okay... this really was a mindf**k...

I can't remember making a hard thread like that and not even Seto trolled me like aka_s2h did.Seto always showed a line for respect to me when I tried to make a point but your buddy aka_s2h trolled and tried to flame my thread.

Okay, have I gone COMPLETELY insane or did PTH just acknowledge that I'm the lesser of two evils? Maybe that's what did him in... the realization that I'm NOT the source of all worldly evils (but I try DAMN hard to be!) collapsed the facade of the perfect Robotech universe and exposed him to the harsh, glaring light of reality. Either way, I'd call the mysteriously polite, rational, inquisitive PTH a marked improvement over the fanatical one we were dealing with back in '09.

This has probably been answered a dozen times here, but what has all of that really got them, especially now? They threat that as an ace in their cards, but it's only led to merchandise, stalled projects and little to no innovation at all. They don't have the drive or sense to do anything meaningful with it except make money off old stuff.

What has it REALLY gotten them? Well, the steady trickle of Macross merchandise is what kept the franchise afloat in the early years of Robotech.com, and Macross merchandise pretty much dominates their sales. Apart from that, their trademark on the name and attempts to obstruct Macross licensing have just brought about additional bad karma among the consumer base, and made them a laughingstock in many anime circles. We can't really credit their punishing lack of originality to that, because they were almost completely unoriginal the entire time, even Robotech II: the Sentinels is a show patched together from material copied from other, rather more popular, shows including Star Trek and Star Wars.

[Robelwell202]

Okay, have I gone COMPLETELY insane or did PTH just acknowledge that I'm the lesser of two evils? Maybe that's what did him in... the realization that I'm NOT the source of all worldly evils (but I try DAMN hard to be!)

He just doesn't know you like we do....

In all seriousness, though, I'm just as flabbergasted by this turn of events, as well.

Immagine my surprise when to my disbelieving eyes should appear a note of gratitude for some assistance Seto and I gave him!

See for yourself!

http://www.robotechx.com/forums/32-macross...ntier.html#9386

Whoa!

[Seto Kaiba]

Immagine my surprise when to my disbelieving eyes should appear a note of gratitude for some assistance Seto and I gave him!

As some are saying, we can't discount the possibility that he's putting us on... but we also can't discount the possibility that he really is trying to turn over a new leaf. All we have to do is give him a chance and eventually the truth'll come out on its own. I'd like to hope that this new PTH who can actually perceive the failings of Harmony Gold and acknowledge the merits of Macross without sacrificing his appreciation of Robotech in the bargain isn't just an act he's putting on to get on MEMO's nerves.

[VFTF1]

I'll be honest - I don't undestand what the hell anybody in those threads at Robotech.com is talking about. Seriously. The only thing I could think of was this:

It's pathetic enough to be me: 30 years old and getting into heated, emotional exchanges about a cartoon from 1982.

But imagine how much worse it could be? I could be getting into heated, emotional exchanges about a bootleg of that cartoon

As for Pizza the Hut:

Maybe he should just stop posting at Loonville.com (aka robotech.com) and just post here for a change. And not just in this thread - but...you know...in other threads too...

Pete

[Gubaba]

As for Pizza the Hut:

Maybe he should just stop posting at Loonville.com (aka robotech.com) and just post here for a change. And not just in this thread - but...you know...in other threads too...

Pete

I don't think you want that...it'd be another fiasco like a previous ones we've had.

Here's one of Pizza's gems:

This schtick of the SDF Macross saga was okay I guess considering the farce of resurrecting the Macross and making the story of how humans were decendants of micronized Zentradis and the main charecters were on Skull squadron and the worst part was the Zents were reimaged but the meltrans still looked like normal females.

I enjoyed DYRL alot because it did keep some original story plots like Breetai teaming with humans and the music was alright.Sorry Macross fans but I can't see why so many are obsessed with Mari Ijima because she sounds like she drank pickle and lemon juice before singing some songs.

I liked the second Macross where Sharon Apple activated the SDF,but what I could not understand is I remember the main guns destroid in DYRL but in other Macross shows it was as if never damaged.

And another:

Well I am in the process of watching it again.I did like it in some ways but it is almost basically a cut and paste version of Macross saga with a new coat of paint.

I am hoping to get the story the second time around since I missed alot of the plot the first time I watched it.

On a sad note,it is a shame that a homosexual was piloting the Macross quarter.I guess that means the homosexual plague will have a place in the future.I mean Alto was also a kabuki female dancer..Jeeze that is sad

What was funny besides the hillbilly Zentraedis was the "khyron" version was eating a carrot waiting to fight.

What was crazy is that they killed Ozma like 2 times and yet he lived.

I hope Macross will pick up where Frontier left off.I am almost a 100% Macross fan,But I doubt I will be 100% because I cannot lower my standards and bash and call names to Robotech fans (even tho Robotech is a dead mummy) because Robotech might still have a pulse.

MW needs people who are smart and witty, with a sparkling prose style and brilliant insights. Not more nonsense.

[VFTF1]

I disagree. MW needs people I can point a finger at and laugh at to raise my low self-esteem by telling myself that since I don't think and write like PTH, then the logical inference is that I'm clearly the next Albert Einstein

I mean - wouldn't it be easier if, instead of MW members having to scour the net and look for things like the stuff you quoted to laugh at - those people just came here and made fools of themselves?

Pete

who once would have written a 10 page response to the above quoted nonsense, but finds that the older he gets, the less inclined he is to try and save the world from its' ignorance...particularly since it's much better to argue with people who are smarter than me - because then I learn something...arguing with people who are way dumber is a waste of time. So what if I'm "right"? I would rather be in an argument where I'm always being proved wrong and therefore learning...

Edited February 2, 2010 by VFTF1

[azrael]

Just out of curiosity, I decided to do a search in the US Copyright database for "Macross" (I'm not sure I can directly link each reference but it's easy to do a lookup anyways. Linky)

Macross; Producer: Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd.

Type of Work: Recorded Document

Document Number: V3449D401

Date of Recordation: 2000-03-06

Entire Copyright Document: V3449 D401 P1-3

Date of Execution: 15Jan84

Title: Macross; animated TV series / Producer: Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd.

Notes: Original license agreement.

Party 1: Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd.

Party 2: Harmony Gold Ltd. USA.

Names: Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd.

Harmony Gold Ltd. USA

Macross: episodes 1-36. By Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd.

Type of Work: Motion Picture

Registration Number / Date: PAu002503627 / 2000-03-13

Supplement to: PAu000740323 / 1985

Title: Macross: episodes 1-36. By Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd.

Copyright Claimant: Harmony Gold USA, Inc. & Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd. (on original appl.: Japanese soundtrack & story)

Previous Registration: (on original appl.: English version including animation prev.reg.)

Supplement to Registration: PAu 740-323, 1985

Contents: Bobbytrap -- Countdown -- Spacefold -- Lin Minmei -- The transformation -- The Daidarus attack -- Bye-bye Mars -- The longest birthday -- Miss Macross -- The blind game -- First contact -- The big escape -- Blue wind -- Gloval’s report -- Chinatown -- Kung fu dandy -- Phantasm -- Pineapple salad -- Bursting point -- Paradise lost -- Micro-cosmos -- Love concert -- Drop out -- Goodbye girl -- Virgin road -- The messenger -- Love floats away -- My album -- Loli’s song -- Viva Mariya -- Satan’s dolls -- Broken heart -- Rainy night -- Private time -- Romanesque -- A gentle farewell.

Variant title: Macross: episodes 1-36.

Other Title: The transformation.

The Daidarus attack.

The longest birthday.

The blind game.

The big escape.

The messenger.

A gentle farewell.

Names: Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd.

Harmony Gold USA, Inc.

Macross : episode no. 1-36.

Type of Work: Motion Picture

Registration Number / Date: PAu000740323 / 1985-03-28

Supplemented by: PAu002503627 / 2000-03-13

Title: Macross : episode no. 1-36.

Description: 21 videocassettes (525 min.) : sd., col. ; 3/4 in.

Notes: Animated.

Language: In Japanese.

Credits: Produced by Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd.

Copyright Claimant: Harmony Gold U. S. A., Inc., and Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd.

Date of Creation: 1983

Authorship on Application: animation, story, soundtrack: Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd., employer for hire.

Previous Registration: Preexisting material: English version including animation.

Basis of Claim: New Matter: "Japanese soundtrack and story."

Copyright Note: See also Macross: episodes 1-36; Reg. 13Mar00; PAu 2-503-627

Variant title: Macross : episode no. 1-36

Names: Harmony Gold U. S. A., Inc.

Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd.

And then this:

Macross.

Type of Work: Visual Material

Registration Number / Date: VAu000534107 / 2002-05-17

Title: Macross.

Description: Drawings.

Copyright Claimant: Kabushiki Kaisha Studio Nue & Kabushiki Kaisha Big West

Date of Creation: 1982

Authorship on Application: artwork: Kabushiki Kaisha Studio Nue, employer for hire.

Names: Kabushiki Kaisha Studio Nue

Kabushiki Kaisha Big West

Majority of the references, as I understand it, of Macross relate to SDFM. I need to find the Japan Copyright and Trademark databases just to see what's listed in there.

[Gubaba]

Just out of curiosity, I decided to do a search in the US Copyright database for "Macross" (I'm not sure I can directly link each reference but it's easy to do a lookup anyways. Linky)

Gotta love the episode titles in your second quote..."Loli's Song"...?

[Jasonc]

I dunno, I think the jury is still out on wether or not PTh would be a benefit to MW or not. My guess at this time, and by the historical marks of his posts, would make modding just that much more difficult. Whether sincere or not, is of no concern to me, as his true colors would come through in the end anyways. If he wants the happy medium between RT and Macross, that's all fine and dandy. If he wants to stick to one side, whatever. Either way, options are out there, and if he can simply play by the rules, he'd be just fine. I'm not gonna say he shouldn't be on here cause he isn't smart or witty, but I feel the question of tact does come into play. He tends to say the wrong things at all the wrong times, and not only pisses off the rt mods, but also people here.

It must be something when you're not really welcome in either camp (or at least, that maybe what he feels). I guess, in the end, we can only see what will become of PTH. If he can show some restraint, and tact, I don't care what franchise he supports. It's fine at that point.

[VFTF1]

But the "tact" problem would go away if a person deigns to READ threads instead of just writing stupid things, a member actually reads the huge range of well reasoned opinions that are present in most of our threads and takes his bearings there. I mean - the quotes Gubaba gave are laugh out load mainly because they look like Pizza has never bothered to inquire at ALL into the subjects he writes about. His errors in thinking are sophmoric.

People on these boards actually have a huge range of diverse opinions - and people are able to write critically about stuff and disagree. Look at the range of hot and cold views on Macross 7 for example.

The thing is - we all get our facts straight, or try to, before forming opinions.

PTH just doesn't have his basic facts straight. That's what makes his posts silly.

We laugh at them NOT because he's a Robotech fan or because he doesn't like Macross - but because he writes things without having a grasp of the facts.

Even the criticism of Bobby the Homosexual is not based in fact.

PTH writes that

the homosexual plague will have a place in the future

and follows that up with a critique of Alto dressing up as a woman for his theatre.

It's like PTH isn't aware that homosexuality has been around a little longer than the last 10 years, and that the idea of guys dressing up as women in theatre is ...um...pretty old.

See - I have nothing against a critique of homosexuality - but when you go about it like that...it's like anything else...if you don't have any basic facts straight, then your opinion just doesn't hold much water - it isn't interesting...

Pete

[Funkenstein]

Nobody tell PTH that all of Shakespeare's plays were once performed only by men....

Edited February 2, 2010 by Funkenstein

[Bri]

Just out of curiosity, I decided to do a search in the US Copyright database for "Macross" (I'm not sure I can directly link each reference but it's easy to do a lookup anyways. Linky)

And then this:

Majority of the references, as I understand it, of Macross relate to SDFM. I need to find the Japan Copyright and Trademark databases just to see what's listed in there.

Seems consitent with the outcome of the lawsuit. Tats owns the economic rights to SDFM and BW/Nue own the creative rights to Macross. No idea if there is any room for maneuvering under US law for shared copyrights.

[Seto Kaiba]

I'll be honest - I don't undestand what the hell anybody in those threads at Robotech.com is talking about.

's okay... it's better than my situation. Half the time I'm embarrassed as hell that I actually understand the gibberish they argue in circles about over there.

I dunno, I think the jury is still out on wether or not PTh would be a benefit to MW or not. My guess at this time, and by the historical marks of his posts, would make modding just that much more difficult. Whether sincere or not, is of no concern to me, as his true colors would come through in the end anyways.

At the very least, we can take some small measure of satisfaction from the fact that for the time being he's asking for clarification when it comes to things he doesn't understand in Macross instead of leaping to ridiculous conclusions without bothering to look for an explanation like he so often did in the past. Exactly how much of the ridiculous stuff he posted was sincere ignorance and how much was just intended to annoy and bait people is a matter that remains to be settled. It seems likely that most of it was probably insincere and intended mainly to annoy the Macross fans who frequented RobotechX into saying something he could get MEMO to ban them for.

PTH just doesn't have his basic facts straight. That's what makes his posts silly.

See above...

It's like PTH isn't aware that homosexuality has been around a little longer than the last 10 years, and that the idea of guys dressing up as women in theatre is ...um...pretty old.

As one of the people who responded to his initial tirade about the perceived pro-homosexual material in Macross Frontier, the impression I got from his reaction was that he's genuinely and profoundly homophobic. We did try to explain the cultural context of Alto's acting and precedent for similar casting decisions in Western theater, and that it wasn't really that outrageous to have an openly gay character from the Japanese perspective. He didn't buy it, and I think it was partly motivated by homophobia, and partly by a desire to find something, anything to object to in Macross Frontier to preserve his stance at the time that Robotech is superior.

Seems consitent with the outcome of the lawsuit. Tats owns the economic rights to SDFM and BW/Nue own the creative rights to Macross. No idea if there is any room for maneuvering under US law for shared copyrights.

Either way, it matters very little. Due to the various international copyright protection treaties the copyrights held by Big West are respected under US law. Any wiggle room that would normally exist would be considerably restricted if not flat out eliminated by the disposition of rights established by the original court rulings.

[Einherjar]

Oh, Carl Macek is back on board Robotech in an unspecified role for the franchise. I don't see what the big deal is; what can he actually bring to it after all these years?

Edited February 2, 2010 by Einherjar

[Gubaba]

Oh, Carl Macek is back on board Robotech in an unspecified role for the franchise. I don't see what the big deal is; what can he actually bring to it after all these years?

The whereabouts of the SDF-2 maybe...?

[VFTF1]

As one of the people who responded to his initial tirade about the perceived pro-homosexual material in Macross Frontier, the impression I got from his reaction was that he's genuinely and profoundly homophobic. We did try to explain the cultural context of Alto's acting and precedent for similar casting decisions in Western theater, and that it wasn't really that outrageous to have an openly gay character from the Japanese perspective. He didn't buy it, and I think it was partly motivated by homophobia, and partly by a desire to find something, anything to object to in Macross Frontier to preserve his stance at the time that Robotech is superior.

Pizza's comments are just plain dumb. They don't even reach the level of homophobic.

Alto dressing up as a woman in a theatre play has NOTHING to do with homosexuality. That's like saying that the fact that Mel Gibson wears a kilt in Braveheart means he does guys up the ass. Seriously - it's that stupid.

As for his comments about Bobby - ...mundane.

Look - how many campy pseudo-homosexual superhero shows and cartoons have been out there?

First of all - look at "boys" programing like He-Man, GI Joe etc etc... a bunch of ripped guys who have no wives, no girlfriends and do nothing but hang out with eachother all the time. Sure - there's usually ONE token female in the lot.

Batman and Robin?

Personally - I prefer a show like Macross where there are manly men who love women, and lots of hot babes and ONE token homosexual.

PTH is gay if he doesn't see this.

I mean - clearly if you don't like gays and you don't like homosexuality in your cartoons than you WANT cartoons to be like Macross Frontier where 99.9% of the cast is straight, and consists of TONS of hot girls and manly men.

Or does PTH prefer to go back to cartoons where 99% of the male cast never looked at women, never had girlfriends, where the token women were always portrayed as petty bland? ...

Bobby is a bit character in a show full of hot girls and fanservice with plenty of tits and ass.

Fixating on Bobby - the token gay cast member - is far from homophobic. It's purely GAY.

Pete

[Jasonc]

Oh, Carl Macek is back on board Robotech in an unspecified role for the franchise. I don't see what the big deal is; what can he actually bring to it after all these years?

There's a man who definitely has his share of faults in the RT franchise. I know many of the RT fans clamore for a hint of the "good ol' days", but aside from actually bringing the 3 series over here, then creating Robotech, nothing else he did for the franchise was successful. I mean, look at his early ideas of sentinels, and you get the impression that Robotech was gonna be a poor circus act.

Yet, despite that bit o news, Tommy is creative director, and anything anyone else does, if not his idea, is out the window. He doesn't like sharing the spotlight, as was evident in the termination of Tom Bateman, but I digress. Carl is probably there for the dog and pony show, and he'll never criticize Robotech or even its new incarnation. Afterall, he would probably take a job back there in a heartbeat. The big question is, who would do a better job, Tommy or Carl? (I know, it's only hypothetical)

[Gubaba]

There's a man who definitely has his share of faults in the RT franchise. I know many of the RT fans clamore for a hint of the "good ol' days", but aside from actually bringing the 3 series over here, then creating Robotech, nothing else he did for the franchise was successful. I mean, look at his early ideas of sentinels, and you get the impression that Robotech was gonna be a poor circus act.

Yet, despite that bit o news, Tommy is creative director, and anything anyone else does, if not his idea, is out the window. He doesn't like sharing the spotlight, as was evident in the termination of Tom Bateman, but I digress. Carl is probably there for the dog and pony show, and he'll never criticize Robotech or even its new incarnation. Afterall, he would probably take a job back there in a heartbeat. The big question is, who would do a better job, Tommy or Carl? (I know, it's only hypothetical)

But...but...didn't you hear his ANN interview? His script for Lady Death WAS THE BEST SCRIPT THE PRODUCERS HAD EVER SEEN! (but then the ADV people messed it all up.) Robotech the Movie WAS A SMASH SUCCESS WHEN IT WAS SHOWN! (but then Cannon Films pulled the plug.) Streamline Pictures WAS INCREDIBLY SUCCESSFUL AND INFLUENTIAL! (but then Orion Films bought their catalogue and screwed everything up.)

(Oh, and Captain Harlock and the Queen of a Thousand Years? Not his idea.)

So see? NONE OF IT WAS CARL'S FAULT! He's got TONS OF EXPLOSIVELY MASSIVELY GARGANTUAN GENIUS IDEAS!!! (but everyone around him is incompetent, so they never come out right. Ah, the tragedy of it all.)

Edited February 3, 2010 by Gubaba

[Seto Kaiba]

Oh, Carl Macek is back on board Robotech in an unspecified role for the franchise. I don't see what the big deal is; what can he actually bring to it after all these years?

Odds are that whatever role Carl Macek has now that he's supposedly back on board is going to me somewhere between minimal and token. It's no secret Tommy's a bit of an egomaniac and a real control freak, so I don't think he'll sit idly by and let Carl assume any measure of creative control. Smart money says it's just a token "consulting" position like he had for Shadow Chronicles, but hyped up to make it sound like he's going to be more involved in hopes that this'll make the vocal critics of RTSC stop verbally crucifying Tommy for his ineptitude.

Apart from potential PR value, the only thing Carl could bring to the franchise is a return to the glory days when they had projects failing before they even made it to production instead of getting one weak movie out and stalling indefinitely for more money. It's not like Macek can write... had one of Macek's old projects actually survived to see release, it would've given most of the fans the distinct impression that the franchise had well and truly jumped the shark.

I mean - clearly if you don't like gays and you don't like homosexuality in your cartoons than you WANT cartoons to be like Macross Frontier where 99.9% of the cast is straight, and consists of TONS of hot girls and manly men.

Or does PTH prefer to go back to cartoons where 99% of the male cast never looked at women, never had girlfriends, where the token women were always portrayed as petty bland? ...

Like I said, he was also reaching for something to criticize in Macross Frontier so he could maintain his stated belief that Robotech was the better show.

So see? NONE OF IT WAS CARL'S FAULT! He's got TONS OF EXPLOSIVELY MASSIVELY GARGANTUAN GENUIS IDEAS!!! (but everyone around him is incompetent, so they never come out right. Ah, the tragedy of it all.)

Truly, Carl Macek is a man who missed his calling as a mid-level marketing executive in the finance industry... someone else is always to blame for his failures.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Seto Kaiba

[Einherjar]

So see? NONE OF IT WAS CARL'S FAULT! He's got TONS OF EXPLOSIVELY MASSIVELY GARGANTUAN GENUIS IDEAS!!! (but everyone around him is incompetent, so they never come out right. Ah, the tragedy of it all.)

So I guess that means Shadow Rising is going to be delayed even further with this diva on board.

Without the work done on Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada, Carl Macek would be a nobody. His career in Robotech relies heavily on taking credit for concepts he directly took from or re-engineered from the source material for his story. Once the originals were done and he expanded the story, the huge contrast between talents was very clear, as seen by the various sections of the Robotech fandom that either hate or like things made after the original 85 episodes (novels, comics, original works, etc.). Bringing him back to the franchise in any capacity offers no guarantees except bringing back fans who were disillusioned by Tommy Yune's tenure as Creative Director. Besides what potential resources that could be available to the LAM, HG still does not have the facilities to do anything with Robotech alone. So yes, now they have at least two people with a lot of big ideas in-house, with one who can actually draw. But it's difficult to turn them into results without an access to something that can turn it into media, a comic book publisher, an animation studio, or writers who can turn their words into professional novels.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Einherjar

[Jasonc]

Without the work done on Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada, Carl Macek would be a nobody. His career in Robotech relies heavily on taking credit for concepts he directly took from or re-engineered from the source material for his story. Once the originals were done and he expanded the story, the huge contrast between talents was very clear, as seen by the various sections of the Robotech fandom that either hate or like things made after the original 85 episodes (novels, comics, original works, etc.). Bringing him back to the franchise in any capacity offers no guarantees except bringing back fans who were disillusioned by Tommy Yune's tenure as Creative Director. Besides what potential resources that could be available to the LAM, HG still does not have the facilities to do anything with Robotech alone. So yes, now they have at least two people with a lot of big ideas in-house, with one who can actually draw. But it's difficult to turn them into results without a access to something that can turn it into media, a comic book publisher, an animation studio, or writers who can turn it their words into professional novels

I know many people are gonna make a big deal of Carl working in any capacity on this, but I'm sure it'll only be a very small token of thanks for getting Robotech off the ground. The way HG is going, I doubt they're gonna hire another "director" for any part of the franchise, although, it'd be quite comical. I can see the bitching and arguing unfold now.

Carl: Tommy, I created Robotech, let me do what I need to do to make this the bestest cartoon of all time!

Tommy: No, only my ideas are the greatest!

Carl: I thought of Shadow Chronicles, it was my idea, til you messed it all up.

Tommy: I fixed it by drawing big boobs all over the place!

Carl: No, that was the animators...You only do MPC box art and a couple screensavers.

Tommy: Oh yeah, those horny Koreans, wait, I'm Korean! Still, I'm in control!

Carl: I am...Without me creating Robotech, t.v. would die, life would be dull, and WWIII would've started if I didn't do what I have done here. I'm saving humanity.

Tommy: Damn, I'm Korean? Wait, I can draw, you can't

Carl: But I can tell whopping big @ss stories, you suck at directing

Tommy: We'll see what my entourage has to say, Memo, Maverick, kill this guy!

Memo: HEHEHE, CARL, WANNA BE AT OUR ROBOTECHX BOOTH? I'LL WEAR A TUNA FISH HAT IF YOU DO?

Maverick: Since I know everything there is to know about anime and sci-fi conventions, and the movie industry. that's a great idea. The world is quaking in their boots over this turn of events, for all you people with OCD.

Tommy: Wait, I said kill him!!!

Carl: Memo, you got a deal. Let's create a Robotech world.

Memo: HEHEHE

Tommy: OK, if you kill Carl, I'll say that we can use SDF Macross designs in any new productions?

Memo: HEHEHE

Maverick: I like Shadow Chronicles

OK, done typing the charade.

[HappyPenguins]

I know many people are gonna make a big deal of Carl working in any capacity on this, but I'm sure it'll only be a very small token of thanks for getting Robotech off the ground. The way HG is going, I doubt they're gonna hire another "director" for any part of the franchise, although, it'd be quite comical. I can see the bitching and arguing unfold now.

Carl: Tommy, I created Robotech, let me do what I need to do to make this the bestest cartoon of all time!

Tommy: No, only my ideas are the greatest!

Carl: I thought of Shadow Chronicles, it was my idea, til you messed it all up.

Tommy: I fixed it by drawing big boobs all over the place!

Carl: No, that was the animators...You only do MPC box art and a couple screensavers.

Tommy: Oh yeah, those horny Koreans, wait, I'm Korean! Still, I'm in control!

Carl: I am...Without me creating Robotech, t.v. would die, life would be dull, and WWIII would've started if I didn't do what I have done here. I'm saving humanity.

Tommy: Damn, I'm Korean? Wait, I can draw, you can't

Carl: But I can tell whopping big @ss stories, you suck at directing

Tommy: We'll see what my entourage has to say, Memo, Maverick, kill this guy!

Memo: HEHEHE, CARL, WANNA BE AT OUR ROBOTECHX BOOTH? I'LL WEAR A TUNA FISH HAT IF YOU DO?

Maverick: Since I know everything there is to know about anime and sci-fi conventions, and the movie industry. that's a great idea. The world is quaking in their boots over this turn of events, for all you people with OCD.

Tommy: Wait, I said kill him!!!

Carl: Memo, you got a deal. Let's create a Robotech world.

Memo: HEHEHE

Tommy: OK, if you kill Carl, I'll say that we can use SDF Macross designs in any new productions?

Memo: HEHEHE

Maverick: I like Shadow Chronicles

OK, done typing the charade.

LOL

[BeyondTheGrave]

I know many people are gonna make a big deal of Carl working in any capacity on this, but I'm sure it'll only be a very small token of thanks for getting Robotech off the ground. The way HG is going, I doubt they're gonna hire another "director" for any part of the franchise, although, it'd be quite comical. I can see the bitching and arguing unfold now.

Carl: Tommy, I created Robotech, let me do what I need to do to make this the bestest cartoon of all time!

Tommy: No, only my ideas are the greatest!

Carl: I thought of Shadow Chronicles, it was my idea, til you messed it all up.

Tommy: I fixed it by drawing big boobs all over the place!

Carl: No, that was the animators...You only do MPC box art and a couple screensavers.

Tommy: Oh yeah, those horny Koreans, wait, I'm Korean! Still, I'm in control!

Carl: I am...Without me creating Robotech, t.v. would die, life would be dull, and WWIII would've started if I didn't do what I have done here. I'm saving humanity.

Tommy: Damn, I'm Korean? Wait, I can draw, you can't

Carl: But I can tell whopping big @ss stories, you suck at directing

Tommy: We'll see what my entourage has to say, Memo, Maverick, Doug kill this guy!

Memo: HEHEHE, CARL, WANNA BE AT OUR ROBOTECHX BOOTH? I'LL WEAR A TUNA FISH HAT IF YOU DO?

Maverick: Since I know everything there is to know about anime and sci-fi conventions, and the movie industry. that's a great idea. The world is quaking in their boots over this turn of events, for all you people with OCD.

Doug: Why should I lesson to you? I'm face Robotech Fandom.i has over 9000 lessoners.

Tommy: Wait, I said kill him!!!

Carl: Memo, you got a deal. Let's create a Robotech world.

Memo: HEHEHE

Doug: Memo youse all up on him. Just like Seto b on me.

Tommy: OK, if you kill Carl, I'll say that we can use SDF Macross designs in any new productions?

Memo: HEHEHE

Maverick: I like Shadow Chronicles

Doug: It better dan that Macross Frontier and its kiddy porn. I like characters and story to be tasteful and not all sexed up.

OK, done typing the charade.

Fixed!