HG and Robotech Debates

[RedWolf]

Yes, his caps locking is a bit irritating, and yes his arguments don't take into account all the facts.

Constant caps lock is not good Net ethiques. All capitals can be viewed as shouting and it makes it difficult to read.

Will I classify MEMO as a troll by these alone? Yes because it is a form of baiting.

[VFTF1]

Constant caps lock is not good Net ethiques. All capitals can be viewed as shouting and it makes it difficult to read.

Will I classify MEMO as a troll by these alone? Yes because it is a form of baiting.

Then maybe we could take a TIME OUT for one second and ask:

Memo:

Could you please not write in Caps Lock all the time, but instead using normal lettering? Is there some technical or biological reason why you persist in writing in caps lock?

This is a fair point. It would help for mutual understanding if you could refrain from putting everything in caps lock or at least give a satisfactory reason why you "must" use caps lock all the time?

Pete

[Gubaba]

THANK YOU PETE.

FROM ANN

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2003-...ight-to-macross

In a serious legal blow to Studio Nue, widely perceived as the original creators and rightful owners of Macross, the Tokyo district court today ruled that the rights associated with authorship, the "author's right," for the first Macross series, belong to Tatsunoko Productions, not Studio Nue.

THIS IS WHAT I STAND ON. UNLESS ANYONE CAN POINT OTHERWISE TO A LINK WHERE I CAN SEE THAT BW HAS AUTHOR RIGHTS.

MORAL IS COVERED BY AUTHOR RIGHTS. THAT WHAT AUTHOR IS.

From Robotech.com user TakNSDAP:

http://www.courts.go.jp/search/jhsp0030?ac...mp;hanreiKbn=06

Tats attempted to appeal but failed.

http://www.courts.go.jp/hanrei/pdf/D177082...CA60029B10E.pdf

A summary can be found in the Japanese version of Wiki on Macross.

The first link is the detail of the ruling, one will find the original court ruling as well as the supplementary material that accompanies it.

In the ruling, it is indicated in this article:

http://tak.rooms.cwal.net/topic2.jpg

Which states that:

Tatsunoko Productions possesses the rights to merchandising and licensing of SDF: Macross overseas while obtaining all of the profit generated from the overseas market only (domestic profit is to be shared). Those were the only rights of Tatsunoko. It does not indicate that they have the right to manipulate the original series or any of its sequels internationally and/or domestically. Therefore, it certainly does not give them the right to all future derivatives of Macross overseas! That was definitely not part of the ruling.

And finally:

http://tak.rooms.cwal.net/topic3.jpg

This article indicates that Studio Nue possesses the intellectual property rights listed from index 1 - 41 of the supplementary material. They are the sole party able to utilize the properties listed from 1 - 41.

Thus, while the ruling in fact granted Tats the right to merchandise the product overseas. However, they are not given the rights to manipulate SDF: Macross or to create sequels based on the show domestically or internationally.

Moreover, nowhere is it listed in the ruling that the rights of Big West & Studio Nue is limited to the domestic (Japanese) market only. That was also not in the ruling.

Also from ANN;

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2...opic.php?t=5901

Also, I must correct the use of the term "author's rights". The case to which you're referring (Tokyo District Court judgment of 1/20/2003, appealed to Tokyo High Court and upheld on 9/25/2003, appealed to Supreme Court--appeal denied) determined that Tatsunoko Productions has the copyright of Super Dimensional Fortress Macross, but not the "author's [personal/moral] right". Please see http://cozylaw.com/copy/tyosakuken/kenri.htm and http://www.cric.or.jp/cric_e/csj/csj4.html for the distinction between these terms. Also see http://www.maxlaw.co.jp/e/ipclw/03autumn.pdf for a brief explanation of how the rights were judged in that manner. In short, Tatsunoko has been judged to have the economic rights associated with the "maker" of the TV series, but not the "moral" rights associated with the "author" of the work

.

So no, Tats DOESN'T have the author's rights.

And again, Memo...if Tastunoko has all the rights to macross and its derivatives, why haven't they exercised them? Why have they allowed Big West and Studio Nue to make Macross sequels without them? Why haven't they made sequels without Big West or Studio Nue?

Edited September 7, 2009 by Gubaba

[HappyPenguins]

Your welcome.

It would be nice if Robotech.com could apply the exact same standards of fairness I was talking about in defense of your right to post your opinions at MW.com over there to other people, instead of hiding behind Harmony Gold's "terms of use" policy.

Pete

yeah it would be nice

So no, Tats DOESN'T have the author's rights.

And again, Memo...if Tastunoko has all the rights to macross and its derivatives, why haven't they exercised them? Why have they allowed Big West and Studio Nue to make Macross sequels without them? Why haven't they made sequels without Big West or Studio Nue?

that's what I'd like to know

Edited September 7, 2009 by HappyPenguins

[Einherjar]

And again, Memo...if Tastunoko has all the rights to macross and its derivatives, why haven't they exercised them? Why have they allowed Big West and Studio Nue to make Macross sequels without them? Why haven't they made sequels without Big West or Studio Nue?

Speaking of Tatsunoko, where are they when it comes to Robotech these days? It's mostly Harmony Gold doing things like promoting Shadow Rising and the LAM a little too much, especially when they won't be doing much for the LAM anyway, to starting litigation against other companies for vaguely similar looking material. Unless everything up till now has been happening on Tatsunoko's behalf, where is the presence of the company that really has "author's rights" to what was turned into Robotech in any of this? I ask because as the people with the real power in the business relationship, why are we hearing from only the middlemen all the time, HG? Is it because all of this only involves the U.S., which is HG's territory?

Edited September 7, 2009 by Einherjar

[Seto Kaiba]

Yes, his caps locking is a bit irritating, and yes his arguments don't take into account all the facts.

That, my friend, is putting is MILDLY. Finding a factual basis for his argument is like finding weapons of mass destruction in Iraq... it's just not gonna happen.

If this were just a question of what he says here, it would be one thing... but he's been using his crackpot, fact-free argument to deliberately mislead people on multiple websites, and spread misinformation about Harmony Gold's ability to use Macross content and the obstacles to Macross licensing. If anything, we're doing the average Robotech and Macross fans a favor by pointing out the hard evidence and the blatantly flawed reasoning in MEMO's argument.

hey, maybe we can combine the discussion on pitbulls with the discussion on politics and tell a palin joke.

Some people in the Republican party are still hoping Palin'll run for president in 2012... that's the worst joke there is.

THIS IS WHAT I STAND ON. UNLESS ANYONE CAN POINT OTHERWISE TO A LINK WHERE I CAN SEE THAT BW HAS AUTHOR RIGHTS.

MORAL IS COVERED BY AUTHOR RIGHTS. THAT WHAT AUTHOR IS.

NOW, THAT BEING SAID, THERE IS ONE MORE QUESTION.

IF, THE COURT DOCUMENTS ARE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, WOULD NOT THE CONTRACT BETWEEN TATSU, BW, AND SN BE IN THERE? THAT DEAL WITH INTERNATIONAL RIGHTS?

AND THATS THE MISSING PUZZLE THAT I DON'T HAVE.

Y'know, this has been answered for you SO MANY TIMES and by SO MANY PEOPLE that there is no doubt in my mind this is just trolling on your part... nobody can possibly be this dense... the "missing puzzle that you don't have" has been handed you to so many times it's not funny. You just chose to ignore it then like you're doing now. I answered this very question for you on the previous page, and you apparently overlooked it somehow. For your convenience, here it is again:

For your edification, MEMO, the 2002 court ruling affirmed that because Tatsunoko was not involved in the project when the copyrighted intellectual property (character and mceha designs) were created, those copyrighted designs are owned by Big West, and that Big West is the sole party able to utilize those those designs. To put it bluntly, MEMO, Big West is the sole holder of ALL the rights to those designs under copyright law... including both the author's rights and economic rights. The 2003 court ruling found that Tatsunoko had the production copyright on the footage itself... the economic rights associated with being the "maker", but not the moral rights associated with being the "author". This does not trump, contradict, or in any way alter the scope of Big West's copyrights on those mecha designs. It does not give Tatsunoko ownership of those designs, or the right to use that copyrighted intellectual property in any way. The only rights Tatsunoko has to those designs are those specifically granted to them by Big West under contract... namely, the international merchandising rights (excluding Japan).

Tatsunoko never owned the intellectual property rights to those designs, and thus CANNOT give those rights to Harmony Gold, and certainly cannot authorize the use of that copyrighted intellectual property for the live-action movie.

Of course, Gubaba's already answered your question AGAIN, though he took the easy way out and just quoted TakNSDAP's previous explanations, which are essentially the exact same thing I spend the better part of a week verbally bludgeoning you with over on Robotech.com.

Speaking of Tatsunoko, where are they when it comes to Robotech these days? It's mostly Harmony Gold doing things like promoting Shadow Rising and the LAM a little too much, especially when they won't be doing much for the LAM anyway, to starting litigation against other companies for vaguely similar looking material. Unless everything up till now has been happening on Tatsunoko's behalf, where is the presence of the company that really has "author's rights" to what was turned into Robotech in any of this? I ask because as the people with the real power in the business relationship, why are we hearing from only the middlemen all the time, HG? Is it because all of this only involves the U.S., which is HG's territory?

Recently? Almost nothing. They seem to have been reduced to just rubber-stamping the use of whatever Southern Cross and Mospeada intellectual property Harmony Gold needs/wants to use in the ongoing "Shadow Saga". They apparently consulted with Harmony Gold early in the production process of Shadow Chronicles, but that, and the supplying of a story consultant seem to have been the extent of their involvement. It's a far cry from their much more active role in Robotech II: the Sentinels and even Robotech 3000. I guess they just don't care anymore.

Edited September 7, 2009 by Seto Kaiba

[Keith]

You know, you bring up a very interesting point. HG is treading a dangerous line, should they somehow magically somehow make Robotech popular, Tatsunoko could pull the rug out from under them, demanding all since "they" are the ones who actually own what HG has.

[VFTF1]

That, my friend, is putting is MILDLY. Finding a factual basis for his argument is like finding weapons of mass destruction in Iraq... it's just not gonna happen.

If this were just a question of what he says here, it would be one thing... but he's been using his crackpot, fact-free argument to deliberately mislead people on multiple websites, and spread misinformation about Harmony Gold's ability to use Macross content and the obstacles to Macross licensing. If anything, we're doing the average Robotech and Macross fans a favor by pointing out the hard evidence and the blatantly flawed reasoning in MEMO's argument.

I'm not arguing against the merits or demerits of that - but rather my point is something altogether different:

look - one of the reasons Robtech.com seems to suck and HG seems to suck is for the simple reason that they keep banning people with different points of view or people who for better or for worse want to bring new information or different interpretations to the table.

One of the strengths of MW is that, despite the fact that the site is dedicated to the original Macross, it doesn't pretend that lots of members didn't have their beginnings in Robotech, it doesn't pretend that there's an on-going debate around the issue of Robotech-Macross, and it doesn't ban or chastize people who want to debate the issue ad infinitum.

All MW does is ask that the entire debate be kept to one thread and not spill out into the rest of the forum - which is a reasonable request.

My point is that we should welcome Memo here and also invite him to check out the other threads on Macrossworld and not call him a troll because that is not polite and it would just be stooping to the same level as the shenanigans that went on and go on at Robotech.com.

Naturally the owner/moderators/admins of each website can run their site how they want, but the way HG runs its' site is something I don't like - namely they pretend reality is something else and want people not to think outside of the box.

That's very different from MW's "no Robotech" rule - which isn't meant to supress discussion, but to focus the site on the original Macross, since there are other fan sites dedicated to Robotech anyways. The rule in no way bars people from bringing up Robotech as it relates to Macross, which does pop up in numerous threads, it doesn't bar people from selling or trading or buying Toynami merchandise, it doesn't bar them from discussing the copyright issue -in fact it invites them to do so in this topic.

I personally think that what likely pisses off a lot of people is not so much the legal mubo jumbo of who's right and wrong but the APPROACH at RT.com and of the Robotech commnity in general which is BAN! SHUT UP! PURIST! FLAAAME! YOU VIOLATE OUR TERMS OF USE!! .... all for just asking a question or posting some information that might or might not be pertinent/correct.

The vast majority of us are just simple fans who have no interest - no monetary specific real time short term or long term interest - in who is right or wrong in this dispute, and NONE OF US have the access to ALL of the materials involved in this case.

I personally agree with you Seto - in terms of the evidence you've shown and the line of reasoning you take.

But my point is something completely different:

Why don't we be different from HG in terms of how we handle the way we treat people around this issue?

You know - people love Macross NOT because Big West owns the Copyright - they love Macross because of the story, the characters, the mecha, the art, and the music.

None of us would care one way or another about who owns what and who is right or wrong if Macross wasn't essentially worth caring about.

It would be interesting if Memo could step outside of this thread and just check out all our discussions of the various Macross sagas and mecha and toys and figures and models and maybe he would find that being into Macross is worth it.

And then, once you begin to see that Macross is cool, you start - I think - to understand more accutely the injustice of a company claiming that you essentially can't legally enjoy a good anime or the by-products of that anime.

And that is really the bone most of us, I think, have with HG and with how Robotech.com treats people regarding this issue.

I just don't think it would be right for us to gang up on Memo. I would like to think Macrossworld and its' members are better than that.

Pete

[Keith]

Memo's been here, and is perfectly capable of viewing other topics/forums, he obviously can't handle that Sheryl's milkshake brings all the boys to the yard.

[Jasonc]

OK, back from Vegas and a lot of revelry...

Speaking of Tatsunoko, where are they when it comes to Robotech these days? It's mostly Harmony Gold doing things like promoting Shadow Rising and the LAM a little too much, especially when they won't be doing much for the LAM anyway, to starting litigation against other companies for vaguely similar looking material. Unless everything up till now has been happening on Tatsunoko's behalf, where is the presence of the company that really has "author's rights" to what was turned into Robotech in any of this? I ask because as the people with the real power in the business relationship, why are we hearing from only the middlemen all the time, HG? Is it because all of this only involves the U.S., which is HG's territory?

If you look through some pics maybe on rt.com, definitely in the art of RTSC, they have plenty of pics with Tommy and a few others going to Tats, and/or having Tats coming here. Basically, HG got a bid from Tats to do RTSC, and when they found it too much for their budget, they bailed out and picked the B-team animator house DR movie. B team cause they mostly specialize in in between animation of the key shots. I always found it funny that they made sure to put those pics in the book, as if Tats actually did anything with it. They did nothing at all.

On another note, while I'm all up for reading and occasionally engaging in debate, the debate as to wether HG or Tats can create new derivatives based on BW/SN's designs or not is really old already. Is it that RT fans are equating the toys and video games to being able to use it in a new film? I don't know, but the facts are all there, and when read without biases and Robotech goggles, the decisions and rulings are spelled out quite well. I really don't see a debate regarding all this. If you think about it, there isn't a debate. The facts are there, all that I've seen is just arguing against peoples idea of how they'd like the facts to work for HG's favor. Sometimes if the person is open to being wrong, they'll see it, but most times, all it is, is just wasted typing.

[RedWolf]

I~snip

Memo being adamant to the point of baiting, outright misinformation and the fact he's a mod at RT.com makes me suspect he's an unofficially paid sock puppet of Harmony Gold.

Sure we give Memo our respect as a given courtesy to every poster but his antics make him loose our respect.

Mind you I've faced worse. Far Left, Far Right, radical Libetarians, radical Atheists, religious fundamentalists and PETA wannabees.

When compared to them well... Memo's pathetic.

[taksraven]

this is the worst f*cking thread ever....

You've got that right, its flying about as well as John Denver......

Taksraven

[VFTF1]

Well, I must say that I have yet to be bowled over by his detailed, intricate, and compelling logic. Just wanted to put the brakes on unnecessary name calling or hostility. No point anybody getting their blood boiling over it.

I personally doubt he's an HG employee. Most companies don't hire people to go around the internet spreading opinions in big caps lock on serious legal issues, that are poorly argued and half-baked. If HG DOES that then...

CAN I PLS HAVE A JOBS TOO HARMNY GOLD? I CAN DO THIS TOO U NO! WATCH:

WWW.WIKI-HG-IS-RIGHT.COM

GO THERE.

MORAL PROPERTY IS RIGHT OF PARTY IN CASE OF WRONG OF PARTY

C) IF YOU THINK IT'S OK THEN YOU GET NO PROPERTY OF CONTRACT RIGHTS UNLESS RIGHT CONTRACT IS LEFT IN KOREA

SUB-SECTION D:

WWW.WIKI-JAPAN-LAWS.JP

Can I have my paycheck now?

Pete

[Keith]

TATSUNOKO AUTHOR RIGHTS

[Seto Kaiba]

One of the strengths of MW is that, despite the fact that the site is dedicated to the original Macross, it doesn't pretend that lots of members didn't have their beginnings in Robotech, it doesn't pretend that there's an on-going debate around the issue of Robotech-Macross, and it doesn't ban or chastize people who want to debate the issue ad infinitum.

Yeah, you have a point... but there's a limit to what can be tolerated, even here.

If this were all just an honest misunderstanding, or anything like an actual discussion, we wouldn't be having a problem... but it's not. What MEMO is posting is deliberate, dare I say, malicious misinformation because he doesn't want to accept reality. I couldn't even begin to guess what his reasons are for trying to exploit his status on RT.com and RTX to mislead Robotech and Macross fans, and I don't think I really want to know. That the legal debate is supposedly neverending (though in truth it ended long ago) is not grounds to excuse a willful attempt to mislead others.

Is it that RT fans are equating the toys and video games to being able to use it in a new film?

MEMO certainly is. It took a great deal of effort from several people to explain that the right to use the designs in merchandise doesn't mean they have the right to use the designs in animation or live-action motion pictures... and I still don't think he understands the concept.

Memo being adamant to the point of baiting, outright misinformation and the fact he's a mod at RT.com makes me suspect he's an unofficially paid sock puppet of Harmony Gold.

Sure we give Memo our respect as a given courtesy to every poster but his antics make him loose our respect.

Exactly.

I personally doubt he's an HG employee.

Oh, he's not... but there's plenty of cause to suspect that he's hoping that if he kisses enough Harmony Gold ass, they'll hire him.

Most companies don't hire people to go around the internet spreading opinions in big caps lock on serious legal issues, that are poorly argued and half-baked. If HG DOES that then... {SNIP!}

We're talking about the people that hired Kevin McKeever... you do realize that, right?

[VFTF1]

I couldn't even begin to guess what his reasons are for trying to exploit his status on RT.com and RTX to mislead Robotech and Macross fans

Dare I venture the not-so-far-fetched, but easily forgotten opinion that status is something that people usually have to earn, and even then work to KEEP. Once a fellow "looses" status there's no risk he'll "misleed" anyone, since most people usually only allow themselves to be misled once or twice (and before somebody pipes up about elections - please notice that more and more people are not voting in those, which IMO is a vote against the entire "misleeding" establishment which has lost its' "status").

Point? No need to worry about Memo misleeding people. As long as reasonable folks are out there who expose the truth, then misleeders will not have many followers.

Of course, you can argue that the risk exists that "someone" will always potentially be misled - even maliciously - but is that a reason to get your blood boiling, loose your nerves or risk a flame war? No. You've done a great job on both boards presenting clear and consice arguments.

That people exist who still think the Earth is flat is their right. Let them be. It only harms them in the end, not you. They'll never dare go beyond certain horizons for fear that they will "fall of the edge of the Earth" - while you can swim around all you want.

The sad fact is that not everyone will ever agree.

Oh, he's not... but there's plenty of cause to suspect that he's hoping that if he kisses enough Harmony Gold ass, they'll hire him.

If that's true then GOOD.

Who here really thinks it would not be in the best interest of Macross fans to wake up one day, log into Robotech.com and find this:

ALL YOUR BASES BELOND TO US! WIKI.COM.JP.FACT-LEGAL FINDS PROPERTY IS COPYRIGHT OF MORALITY OF WRITERS BLOCK'S AUTHORS TATS IS RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG PIECES OF THE PUZZLE MIGHT BE FOUND YET ENJOY YOUR ALPHA FIGHTERS RICK HUNTER IS BEST.

NEWSFLASH: PIzza The HuT NAMED EXECUTIVE VP HARMONY GOLD

I think that would be a splendid scenario, don't you?

Or would you prefer if they actually hired people who made coherent arguments and good business decisions?

Pete

[Whamhammer]

Dudes, the name calling and insulting is a little over the top. Cant there be a debate without the sophmoric remarks?

I'm just sitting around and waiting for the "Yo' Moma" lines.

[terry the lone wolf]

Ugh!!! My ears! My ears!

[TehPW]

Not surprising... Space Station Liberty IS the unofficial propaganda mouthpiece of Harmony Gold after all.

As is typical with this, he half-assed his research. That's par for the course with Robotech die-hards though, and Chris Meadows (Robotech Master) is definitely a die-hard.

It's not like this'll damage Harmony Gold's rep any more than it already has.

Battletech fans have hated Harmony Gold since the 90's, because of the original "unseen mecha" lawsuit, and most mecha anime enthusiasts on the various websites scattered around the net hate them either for bastardizing Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospeada, or for keeping Macross sequels out of western markets.

Really, their reputation was already poo, and this is just more crap being heaped atop an already mountainesque dunghill.

Battletech fans hate Disharmony Mold because they failed to understand the legal back story (me included). FASA, after reading the 'propaganda' (Ok, based on the podcasts, maybe he's pro-HG. doesn't mean he's on the payroll ), clearly screwed up with their lawsuit to playmates, first. after that, they got it in the rear as reprisal. I didn't get a pro-this/pro-that from the blog. just clarity, since i've read various versions of what happened in the legal case. it seems cut and dry. FASA screwed up. and because of that, it rippled across dozens of fronts. what changed after that?

well, one thing, FASA was more selective on illustrations for their mechs. They went out of thier way to make sure the designs didn't look like HG products (or perhaps anything else being made in japan at that time) which is why there was a maked decline in design art (3060 curvetech and huge honking barrels, anyone?).

You also saw how the computer games was affected. from the many, many designs (yeah Activision's take on CBT designs was quaint, based on the computer tech availible on Win95 systems and then Win98) to less. and less consistancy since the property changed hands (did Activision drop mechwarrior because of the Lawsuits of FASA/HG? probably, since they dropped Star trek properties just as quick a decade later with Nemesis's epic fail in box office) no consistance vision of the game exists...

meh, im ranting irrationally. *waves*

Edited September 7, 2009 by pensives_wetness

[Einherjar]

I don't think MEMO's coming back to respond to any of this, like usual. Whether it was because of how we responded or because that's all he wanted to "contribute" to the discussion, he never stays long enough to satisfy anyone (or let people understand what he just said). The damage has been done once again on this thread. We're setting ourselves up to do it every time he pops in.

Edited September 7, 2009 by Einherjar

[Gubaba]

I don't think MEMO's coming back to respond to any of this, like usual. Whether it was because of how we responded or because that's all he wanted to "contribute" to the discussion, he never stays long enough to satisfy anyone (or let people understand what he just said). The damage has been done once again on this thread. We're setting ourselves up to do it every time he pops in.

Yes, the flurry of activity when he shows up is amazing, isn't it?

I think it's because there's no real debate here, we're all in agreement...so when someone shows up with a contrary opinion, people tend to pounce on him (which might be why Pizza the Hutt broke his promise to post here).

But it DOES seem like A.N.N. got their facts wrong on the Macross rulings, doesn't it? Maybe someone should let them know...?

[Einherjar]

I think it's because there's no real debate here, we're all in agreement...so when someone shows up with a contrary opinion, people tend to pounce on him (which might be why Pizza the Hutt broke his promise to post here).

But he isn't just a regular someone. He has a huge reputation on other sites coming here acting very authoritative, and then disappearing like he doesn't give a crap for us or what he just said. Serious debater indeed. He'll come back in a couple of weeks/months doing the same thing, speaking as if looking down at us. Good that we only have one thread dedicated to this.

Sorry VFTF1, I think he's a troll.

[Gubaba]

But he isn't just a regular someone. He has a huge reputation on other sites coming here acting very authoritative, and then disappearing like he doesn't give a crap for us or what he just said. Serious debater indeed. He'll come back in a couple of weeks/months doing the same thing, speaking as if looking down at us. Good that we only have one thread dedicated to this.

Sorry VFTF1, I think he's a troll.

I dunno...I believe that English isn't his first language, so maybe he doesn't understand all our responses...I had a similar problem posting on Macross Generation Forums, so I can sympathize there.

But yes, it would be better for all involved if he could articulate his arguments better and actually continue a debate.

I know Maverick LSC comes here from time to time, and I think he and Memo are in agreement. Perhaps he could step in.

[EXO]

Memo's posts are irritating, especially with the CAPS LOCK andmaybe the way he posts is borderline trolling, but I gotta say, he's not a very effective troll. The stuff he posts are so inane and such obvious HG cheerleading shenanigans that I can't believe you guys let him get to you. And he speaks english fine, you just have to understand that he has his lips so far up Tommy Yune's butt that every time Tommy says something Memo lip synchs along... Hahaha... Hey MEMO, you know it's true...

[Gubaba]

Memo's posts are irritating, especially with the CAPS LOCK andmaybe the way he posts is borderline trolling, but I gotta say, he's not a very effective troll. The stuff he posts are so inane and such obvious HG cheerleading shenanigans that I can't believe you guys let him get to you. And he speaks english fine, you just have to understand that he has his lips so far up Tommy Yune's butt that every time Tommy says something Memo lip synchs along... Hahaha... Hey MEMO, you know it's true...

Ouch, man...

[VFTF1]

Memo would do himself a favor if he:

a) Stuck around longer to talk instead of showing up, CAPS LOCKING some random arguments and links and then going away

and

b) At least tried to demonstrate that he understands the counter-arguments being made instead of being oblivious to them, as if all we needed were those links he provided and the quotes and that's it.

I have nothing against people thinking he's a troll, doubting that he'll actually communicate rather than preach etc etc.

I just think that we should all keep our cool when he shows up. Not saying anybody did anything wrong, but there was just a point in the debate where I got the feeling that some peoples' frustrations - even if legit ones - were starting to drive them towards anger - and that never produces anything good.

The last thing we want is for Memo's appearances to cause any kind of disturbance that would get this thread locked or get the mods mad.. and you know how those things can degenerate into flame wars pretty quickly.

Again - I am not saying Memo is not to blame here. I mean - he doesn't really even have the courtesy to stick around and just shoot the wind with us like any normal person would. Nor does he explain why the caps locks, nor does he reply to Seto's counter points - nothing.

Agreed.

But you can't ban him for being dense or stubborn. It's one of those situations like in Terminator 2. Naked Arnold comes into the bar, walks around showing off his shlong, and tells some dude to give him his clothes and his bike.

Don't be the dude who puts his cigar out on arnold.

That never works - it just leaves us with a bar that is trashed - and we like this bar, we like to hang out in it, and we should be careful not to let guys like Memo trash it.

Again - not saying anybody was out of line or anything - but I just got the feeling tempers were running a bit and I would really be sorry to see any fights or impoliteness here that would be harmful to us all.

But overall, I think the situation was handled well by everybody - everybody except Memo, of course, who didn't answer any questions, didn't acknowledge anybody, said his bit - and then split.

But oh well.

Pete

[EXO]

But you can't ban him for being dense or stubborn. It's one of those situations like in Terminator 2. Naked Arnold comes into the bar, walks around showing off his shlong, and tells some dude to give him his clothes and his bike.

Don't be the dude who puts his cigar out on arnold.

That never works - it just leaves us with a bar that is trashed - and we like this bar, we like to hang out in it, and we should be careful not to let guys like Memo trash it.

WHAT??? lol, did you just compare MEMO to Ahnuld?

Analogies don't really mean anything as far as arguments because I can make anything up to support the opposition...

I would probably say that Memo's more like the dog that use to pee all over my mom's front yard and she would chase him out with the hose. Then he'll be back the next day and it all happens again. Should the dog just stay off the yard? Yes.

But as the title says... HG and Robotech Debates... If you guys can't handle MEMO then what the hell are you doing in this thread? I wish there's a filter for all caps but there isn't...

[VFTF1]

Well technically Ahnold was the trouble making stand out in that scene...

But point taken

Pete

[Freiflug88]

So Tatsunko just licenses the Mospedea franchise?

Ergo - if I bought the license to Mospedea and made a show with Alpha and Beta fighters and Cyclones and called it Robowarriors, then it could legally run alongside Shadow Chronicles?

Or is it an exclusive license to HG?

Pete

Exactly. Tatsunko just licenses the Mosepeda franchise in their contract with HG. Tatsunko hasn't done anything with Mospeda to my knowledge, maybe they sell the occasional toy or DVD in the bargin bin in Japanese stores IDK. Its obvious though that they don't have plans for anything like a Rebuild of Mospeda so its a no brainer for them to just license the Mosepedea rights in an expensive contract with HG.

Once the contract expires you could outbid Harmony Gold to acquire the Mospedea and legally create a Robowarriors to run alongside Shadow Chronicles. The name of the figthers and cyclones would probably have to be changed though.

[Roy Focker]

We're talking about the people that hired Kevin McKeever... you do realize that, right?

Before they hired he was known here as troll. He was even banned here once.

[Whamhammer]

Ugh!!! My ears! My ears!

ooooooooooooooooooookkkkaeeeeee, that was just the worst thing ever......

[Gubaba]

ooooooooooooooooooookkkkaeeeeee, that was just the worst thing ever......

Worse than Reba West? Surely you're joking!

[BeyondTheGrave]

I wonder...

How does ADV going out of business affect the Robotech DVDs..?

one less re-release. more clamoring and complaints, fans losing faith. And more Bans enacted.

[taksraven]

This article is not directly relevant to this topic, but still relevant in the way that it looks at copyrights and how issues over them are becoming more and more of a headache to broader culture in general.

Worth a look......

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6811a9d4-9b0f-11...?nclick_check=1

Taksraven

[Seto Kaiba]

Yes, the flurry of activity when he shows up is amazing, isn't it?

Nothing gets people's attention quite like drama, eh?

But it DOES seem like A.N.N. got their facts wrong on the Macross rulings, doesn't it? Maybe someone should let them know...?

I wouldn't say they got their facts wrong, so much as they tried to boil the rulings down to something very short, simple, and easy for the casual reader to understand, a task that's next to impossible with court documents.

Before they hired he was known here as troll. He was even banned here once.

That was my point, yes.