The MW Automotive Thread Quattro SpecV

[emajnthis]

Speaking of cars "borrow" styling cues, the Hennessey Venom GT Concept looks exactly like the Lotus Exige. Except bigger.

Looks like Exige mixed with Carrera GT, but it's definitely nothing we haven't seen before, the proportions in the concept art make it look like a hot wheels car.

[Agent ONE]

Just a tuned Exeige

[Agent ONE]

I'd like to add, cars always look more badass in their concept sketches:

[Excillon]

No offensive but that looks pretty ricey IMO.

What's wrong with ricey? I like ricey...and I like ricey even more when it pisses off the guy driving the Mustang next to me after I blow his doors off.

[anime52k8]

What's wrong with ricey? I like ricey...and I like ricey even more when it pisses off the guy driving the Mustang next to me after I blow his doors off.

No matter how fast or powerful your car is, it still looks ridiculous and everyone else around you in traffic is laughing at you and your car.

[eugimon]

No matter how fast or powerful your car is, it still looks ridiculous and everyone else around you in traffic is laughing at you and your car.

Whatever do you mean?

[Hiriyu]

Whatever do you mean?

Hey man, that creates what is called downforce. You have to be a pretty good driver to able to tell the difference. Back when wings first came out for cars back in 2003, I was the first one in Illinois to get a really big one. Makes a HUGE difference, especially on a FWD car. Anyone who says anything else just doesn't know.

[myk]

What's wrong with ricey? I like ricey...and I like ricey even more when it pisses off the guy driving the Mustang next to me after I blow his doors off.

Ricey doesn't equal performance. After all class, Rice stands for retard-inspired-cosmetic-enhancement. There are a lot of import cars that are worthy of respect and are as fast and as furious as any Stateside vehicle, and they don't need wings n' things to do it.

And no disrespect to Mustangs, but if you wanna take on an adequate example of bone-stock U.S. speed take on an LS-1 equipped F body, or an LS-2 powered 'Vette or GTO.

The American muscle car LIVES...

Edited August 22, 2009 by myk

[VFTF1]

awesome find. Although 10k for a 2000 with 200k...hmmm my Bro in law just got a 2005 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport package with 139K for 9K

I guess things in Europe cost a lot. You just got your drivers license?????

Well - I ended up NOT getting that after all

Instead, I got a Mazda 626 voyage sedan. 10 years old, automatic drive, air conditioning, 125 KM, hatchback. No picture yet, but I have been all over the place in it and it's in great condition

Yay.

Yep. I just got my drivers license and this mazda is my first car

Cost me only 4 thousand bucks

Pete

[yellowlightman]

Whatever do you mean?

I don't think bosozoku cars quite fall under "rice," but LOL INTERNET PHOTO.

[areaseven]

Introduced last week at the Pebble Beach Concours dElegance, the Devon GTX is touted to be the next American supercar. The GTX is powered by the Dodge Viper's 8.4 liter V10, which generates 650 bhp. Only 36 units will be made at $500,000 each, with an optional racing package for $25,000 extra.

2010 Devon GTX

[areaseven]

Ever wondered what NASCAR roadkill was like?

NASCAR Driver Hits Coyote at 190 mph (WARNING: Graphic Images!)

[areaseven]

Remember when Dr. Pepper offered a free can of their soda to everyone in America (except Slash) when Axl Rose released his Chinese Democracy CD? Well, something similar is happening today at Papa John's. John Schnatter sold his 1971 1/2 Camaro 26 years ago to finance his fledgling pizza chain. After over a decade of searching (including enlisting a former FBI agent), Schnatter was reunited with his Camaro; and to celebrate, all Camaro owners in the US get free pizzas.

Papa John Finds His Long-Lost Z28, Offers Free Pizza to All Camaro Owners

[reddsun1]

Remember when Dr. Pepper offered a free can of their soda to everyone in America (except Slash) when Axl Rose released his Chinese Democracy CD? Well, something similar is happening today at Papa John's. John Schnatter sold his 1971 1/2 Camaro 26 years ago to finance his fledgling pizza chain. After over a decade of searching (including enlisting a former FBI agent), Schnatter was reunited with his Camaro; and to celebrate, all Camaro owners in the US get free pizzas.

Papa John Finds His Long-Lost Z28, Offers Free Pizza to All Camaro Owners

Ah, that explains the Camaro he's driving in that latest Papa John's commercial. That's pretty sweet.

I suppose that'd be a tough, TOUGH call to make; selling off a treasured ride like that. There'd be that really big IF; i.e. "what if the gamble doesn't pay off?" But as they say: nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Edited August 26, 2009 by reddsun1

[reddsun1]

Ever wondered what NASCAR roadkill was like?

NASCAR Driver Hits Coyote at 190 mph (WARNING: Graphic Images!)

Funny how the linked article mentions that the validity of the photos is being questioned. I don't doubt those are real. Reminds me of the vid of the poor little rabbit getting hit by a DTM Touring car--literally skinned the little bugger on impact.

Animal strikes are a very real--and all too common--danger in motor racing. There are many recorded incidents of drivers striking birds, rabbits, etc. A lot of them fatal, unfortunately.

This one's a little funny [kind of], as poor Bambi gets sent into orbit.

But if that driver hadn't reacted--in the fraction of a second that he had--then this could easily have resulted in TWO fatalities...

And, as a bit of a guilty pleasure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrO8AFGi_rc

Not really racing-related, but LAWD! That one almost made me roll out of my chair the first time I saw it. Between the engineer's astute observation, and that sickening *gong*, that one never fails to crack me up.

[Whamhammer]

Heres mine.

[Excillon]

Ricey doesn't equal performance. After all class, Rice stands for retard-inspired-cosmetic-enhancement. There are a lot of import cars that are worthy of respect and are as fast and as furious as any Stateside vehicle, and they don't need wings n' things to do it.

And no disrespect to Mustangs, but if you wanna take on an adequate example of bone-stock U.S. speed take on an LS-1 equipped F body, or an LS-2 powered 'Vette or GTO.

The American muscle car LIVES...

The American muscle car lives... that's why they get their asses handed to them by the Germans, Italians, and English. Even the Japanese. Hell, a Vette can't even stand up to an NSX. American cars are all but dead compared to the rest of the world.

As for my "Retard" car. My "retard" car is still a HELL of a lot nicer than what most people drive. And, with the mods, worth more as well. As for the looks, I like the sleeker looking cars, as opposed to clunky designs put forth by the American companies. The lambo doors...I got that kit for free, so figured hell with it. And I can't hear any laughing, because of 2 reasons. One, because by the time I'm in third I'm easily a few carlengths in front, and two, because I've got 4 15" kickers in there. Maybe the cosmetic enhancements are there, but that doesn't mean I don't have performance. And isn't that what you should look at in a car, performance? Well, show me a Camaro or a Mustang that handles as well, and has the speed of a tuned 3000 GT.

And I'll still take a VR-4 over an LS1 or 2. All that HP and half the body weight? That's a no-brainer.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Excillon

[David Hingtgen]

Standing comment: I generally agree with everything myk says when it comes to cars.

[yellowlightman]

Hell, a Vette can't even stand up to an NSX. American cars are all but dead compared to the rest of the world.

Maybe ten years ago, but certainly not now.

And, with the mods, worth more as well.

That's not true either.

But whatever helps you sleep at night.

[anime52k8]

And, with the mods, worth more as well.

[Beltane70]

Besides, what you can do an import, you can also do to an American muscle car.

[Whamhammer]

"And I'll still take a VR-4 over an LS1 or 2. All that HP and half the body weight? That's a no-brainer"

Hold on , are you talking 3000 gt vr-4? All wheel drive adds weight you know. Theyre 3800pounds, my WS-6 is 3500pounds and the 'Vette hovers around 3200pounds. The LS-1 dropped about 60 pounds off of the weight in the front (the engine weighed that much less than the iron blocked LT-1) and it helped the handling charachteristics a great deal for the F bodies. LT-1 equipped Camaros gave the 3000 gt VR-4's a run for thier money accelerationwise with a power defict with a stick starting between 17 and 21k (depending on the year 93-97).And how much did a full-zoot 3000 GT VR_4 cost?

The thing the 3000 GT VR-4's was best at was that the all wheel drive helped a mediocre driver drive more like an excellent driver, but it handicapped the excellent driver with a weight disadvantage (and some would say the advantage of being able to throttle steer). As far as Japanesse cars of that era, I'd point more to the Supra Twin-turbo model, but with an entry fee of 40-45k its also is a hard swallow (and theyre still high up there, they suffered such small sales numbers compared to popularity that they are still in demand). Of course today, if your buying from the Japanesse market get a new Z , its bfb is awesome . Still though an LS-3 Vette Coupe with the Grand Sport package (last years Z-51 package) is still a phenominal value bfb.

[Whamhammer]

"Hell, a Vette can't even stand up to an NSX. American cars are all but dead compared to the rest of the world".

Good luck finding one (NSX), nobody bought them because the dealers priced themselves out of the market.Just like what Toyota did to the Supra's and MR-2 Spyders, but worse..... I see an occasional NSX on the road once in a blue moon at best, I see more Elise's and Exgiges on the road than NSX's.

[emajnthis]

The NSX wasn't really a great car to begin with, great idea with mediocre execution. The idea that it's a super car with economy car maintenance is its greatest selling point, but they used a crappy motor (C30/32 - 90 degree V6, nobody uses 90 degree V6's anymore for lots of reasons) and mounted it transverse so it's hard to work on. So basically instead of engineering the motor to fit longitudinal and engineering a real MR platform (a la ferrari, Lambo, etc) they just took an existing motor and trans design and just put in the back of the car to make an MR car (a la MR2). The worst thing is that Honda never bothered giving it a proper refresh in its entire run, they gave it a little better displacement but still kept the 90 degree V6 all the while they had a perfectly good 60 degree V6 just sitting on the shelf (J32/35). The NSX made up for its crappy motor by having a super light and rigid chassis, if they had put as much work into the motor as they did the chassis, then the NSX would've stood the test of time.

There are valid arguments for Japanese cars, but not the ones your defending. The 3000GT was also one of those great ideas with poor execution, a better example of a car with the same ethos as the 3000GT but with perfect execution would be the Nissan GT-R. The GT-R set out to accomplish everything that the 3000GT wanted to, but actually did it right (and that goes for any BNR GT-R R32-R35), the 3000GT is well known to have horrible reliability issues especially with its transmission and transfer case and its general design was poor (another transverse motor type with a maze of turbo plumbing from both the firewall and the radiator side, complete crap to work on). That's not to say that 3000GT's aren't fast, they are certainly fast, but for how long. My friend's VR-4 spent more time in pieces in his garage than it ever did on the road, but when he had it on the road it was something to behold, quite frankly, performance of that type isn't worth it to me. If i can't drive it year round and know it'll perform the same in the morning as it does in the evening then it's not worth owning.

EDIT:

Also a Vette would kill an NSX, a lightly modified S2000 will beat an NSX, NSX's are pretty to look at and great for their time, but their time was 1989 they set the bar high but not that high. Notable Japanese cars to use for these types of debates would be Supra, GT-R, STI, EVO, FD RX-7, Silvia, S2000, Z cars, etc. try to avoid DSM and Honda's that aren't the S2000.

Edited August 27, 2009 by emajnthis

[reddsun1]

Now THAT'S a burnout!

[nugundamII]

Well - I ended up NOT getting that after all

Instead, I got a Mazda 626 voyage sedan. 10 years old, automatic drive, air conditioning, 125 KM, hatchback. No picture yet, but I have been all over the place in it and it's in great condition

Yay.

Yep. I just got my drivers license and this mazda is my first car

Cost me only 4 thousand bucks

Pete

Congrats

Cant wait to see the pics!

[Excillon]

The NSX wasn't really a great car to begin with, great idea with mediocre execution. The idea that it's a super car with economy car maintenance is its greatest selling point, but they used a crappy motor (C30/32 - 90 degree V6, nobody uses 90 degree V6's anymore for lots of reasons) and mounted it transverse so it's hard to work on. So basically instead of engineering the motor to fit longitudinal and engineering a real MR platform (a la ferrari, Lambo, etc) they just took an existing motor and trans design and just put in the back of the car to make an MR car (a la MR2). The worst thing is that Honda never bothered giving it a proper refresh in its entire run, they gave it a little better displacement but still kept the 90 degree V6 all the while they had a perfectly good 60 degree V6 just sitting on the shelf (J32/35). The NSX made up for its crappy motor by having a super light and rigid chassis, if they had put as much work into the motor as they did the chassis, then the NSX would've stood the test of time.

There are valid arguments for Japanese cars, but not the ones your defending. The 3000GT was also one of those great ideas with poor execution, a better example of a car with the same ethos as the 3000GT but with perfehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYqCyDNzuHk&feature=relatedct execution would be the Nissan GT-R. The GT-R set out to accomplish everything that the 3000GT wanted to, but actually did it right (and that goes for any BNR GT-R R32-R35), the 3000GT is well known to have horrible reliability issues especially with its transmission and transfer case and its general design was poor (another transverse motor type with a maze of turbo plumbing from both the firewall and the radiator side, complete crap to work on). That's not to say that 3000GT's aren't fast, they are certainly fast, but for how long. My friend's VR-4 spent more time in pieces in his garage than it ever did on the road, but when he had it on the road it was something to behold, quite frankly, performance of that type isn't worth it to me. If i can't drive it year round and know it'll perform the same in the morning as it does in the evening then it's not worth owning.

EDIT:

Also a Vette would kill an NSX, a lightly modified S2000 will beat an NSX, NSX's are pretty to look at and great for their time, but their time was 1989 they set the bar high but not that high. Notable Japanese cars to use for these types of debates would be Supra, GT-R, STI, EVO, FD RX-7, Silvia, S2000, Z cars, etc. try to avoid DSM and Honda's that aren't the S2000.

Nsx vs. a vette? OK....

Can you say "bye bye"? It's NOT even close. It also does quite a number on a Dodge Viper as well apparently.

I'm not saying the 3000 GT is my first choice for a Japanese car, but it's the platform I could afford at the time, and the parts were reasonably priced. I also own an 05 Acura TL. I'd take a GT-R, Lancer EVO or a Supra anyday over it. I fail to understand the love of american cars, and everyone making such a big deal over them. They're NOT good (except maybe the Aero). Sure, a few are alright, but I think the last good American concept was the Ram air. I mean, look what the Europeans are doing. The new Jag XK's, Porsche (who will always be the best), and Ferrari. I mean, it's just seems stupid to spend so much on something as lame as a Corvette when you could have so much more for the same price. If American cars are so great, then why did they have to have all those bailouts? Because their cars aren't selling. Chrysler is now owned by the Italians, previously owned by Germans, GM was in (and still half is) such turmoil they had to dump lines. Ford has just puttered along in the vein of mediocrity as usual.

The point is that I think that American buffs have NO right to bash the Japanese, for one simple reason: Look at today's designs and tell me the US has not borrowed EXTREMELY heavily from Japanese car designs. And seeing as how Chevy and Dodge BOTH pussed out and wouldn't even race against the GT-R, I think that says something.

And as for bashing my car...It's not the nicest car out there, but I like it. Furthermore, it's a lot nicer I'm sure than what a lot of people on here drive because they're blowing all their money on valks...

Edited August 27, 2009 by Excillon

[David Hingtgen]

How exactly are the new Camaro and Challenger heavily influenced by Japanese cars? (since we're talking fast/showy cars) There's plenty of "new American rice", but they are intentionally targeting the rice crowd---the G6 GXP is about the best example I can think of.(though that's almost a dub/rice hybrid) Many of the smaller Chevys to a lesser degree.

For "big American cars" (which is about half of all American cars) they are about as un-Japanese as can be I think.

[reddsun1]

Nsx vs. a vette? OK....

Can you say "bye bye"? It's NOT even close. It also does quite a number on a Dodge Viper as well apparently.

I'm not saying the 3000 GT is my first choice for a Japanese car, but it's the platform I could afford at the time, and the parts were reasonably priced. I also own an 05 Acura TL. I'd take a GT-R, Lancer EVO or a Supra anyday over it. I fail to understand the love of american cars, and everyone making such a big deal over them. They're NOT good (except maybe the Aero). Sure, a few are alright, but I think the last good American concept was the Ram air. I mean, look what the Europeans are doing. The new Jag XK's, Porsche (who will always be the best), and Ferrari. I mean, it's just seems stupid to spend so much on something as lame as a Corvette when you could have so much more for the same price. If American cars are so great, then why did they have to have all those bailouts? Because their cars aren't selling. Chrysler is now owned by the Italians, previously owned by Germans, GM was in (and still half is) such turmoil they had to dump lines. Ford has just puttered along in the vein of mediocrity as usual.

The point is that I think that American buffs have NO right to bash the Japanese, for one simple reason: Look at today's designs and tell me the US has not borrowed EXTREMELY heavily from Japanese car designs. And seeing as how Chevy and Dodge BOTH pussed out and wouldn't even race against the GT-R, I think that says something.

And as for bashing my car...It's not the nicest car out there, but I like it. Furthermore, it's a lot nicer I'm sure than what a lot of people on here drive because they're blowing all their money on valks...

Hmm, that's a bit of a tough one. Not the "best" example to compare car vs. car, as driver error played a part. You can hear the Vette driver miss his upshift, then proceed to slush around in the gearbox. His moment of embarassment firmly established, he finally seemed to say "hang-it-all," and coast to his dismal final E.T.

But--with the time posted by the NSX, it's pretty likely it would have taken the win anyway?

[Excillon]

Hmm, that's a bit of a tough one. Not the "best" example to compare car vs. car, as driver error played a part. You can hear the Vette driver miss his upshift, then proceed to slush around in the gearbox. His moment of embarassment firmly established, he finally seemed to say "hang-it-all," and coast to his dismal final E.T.

But--with the time posted by the NSX, it's pretty likely it would have taken the win anyway?

Would've been close, but yeah, it would have.

[Excillon]

How exactly are the new Camaro and Challenger heavily influenced by Japanese cars? (since we're talking fast/showy cars) There's plenty of "new American rice", but they are intentionally targeting the rice crowd---the G6 GXP is about the best example I can think of.(though that's almost a dub/rice hybrid) Many of the smaller Chevys to a lesser degree.

For "big American cars" (which is about half of all American cars) they are about as un-Japanese as can be I think.

Contours, end cosmetics, ergonomics...and that's just on the surface. Everyone has borrowed from the Japanese. Even with the engines, you see it more and more. I'm a machinist and a card carrying UAW member who works for Caterpillar, my father in law works for Chrysler in the engine plant, and he can tell you some stories. For instance, when they were designing the Neon in the 90's, they brought in a Honda Civic, and a Nissan Sentra and began dismantling them, trying to get a better understanding of 4 cyl. engines and fuel economy. When the Viper's engine was being built, they had 2 different Mercedes engines, a Ferrari engine, and a couple 3000GT/Stealth engines laying around, just figuring out how to take the best from all three. I guess finding nothing wrong in that is a matter of perspective.

I asked him about the Challenger, and he replied "Don't waste your money". For the record, he drives a Maxima.

[areaseven]

Everyone has borrowed from the Japanese.

On the contrary, the Japanese borrowed from everyone first. Nissan (known decades ago as Prince Motors) built local versions of Austins. Earlier Toyotas were based on Chrysler, Chevy and Volkswagen designs.

[ambient73]

And seeing as how Chevy and Dodge BOTH pussed out and wouldn't even race against the GT-R, I think that says something.

Really? In every comparo test so far, the GT-R has been trounced by the ZR1

Not saying that the Nissan is a bad car, but it just can't run with the Corvette.

[areaseven]

I know Agent ONE won't trade in his Elise for an upgrade, but this should be pretty tempting. Weighing in at just 1962 lbs., the Lotus Exige Cup 260 sports a stiffer suspension, lots of weight-saving materials and a supercharged 1.8 liter inline-4 that generates 257 bhp. All this results in an acceleration of 0-100 km/h (0-60 mph) in 4.1 seconds.

2010 Lotus Exige Cup 260

[yellowlightman]

Excillion, how does a 15 year old like you get all the money to trick out a sweet ride?