Battletechnology

[Vostok 7]

I have MW4 and one of the 'Mech packs (pretty sure it's the IS pack) and I don't think I have the big MW4 expansion.

I have everything MW3, though. Several copies, in fact

Vostok 7

[big F]

I have MW4 and one of the 'Mech packs (pretty sure it's the IS pack) and I don't think I have the big MW4 expansion.

I have everything MW3, though. Several copies, in fact

Vostok 7

To play with the MekTek expansions I'm fairly sure you don't even need both the I.S and Clans packs. IIRC the maps and changes made for Mercs were added into one of the MekTek packs Less to bother buying if you don't already have it :)

Chances are though the packs will be out there in the bargain bin etc. They may even add them to the free download as they did add some nice additions to the mech stable.

[Wanzerfan]

WFT does any of that have to do with Battletech was my point

That's why I prefer to use standard configurations. Munchkins ruin the game.

You were only ever allowed to do both physical attacks in the original rules, all revisions from the Compendium onwards only allow one or the other. For that one trick pony to work your opponent would have had to have been a noob or a total plonker who didn't understand the game and where's the fun in that.

My fault. I origanally was making a point about a guy who cheated in just about any game he played, and used AD&D as an example.

Let's not forget the "Death From Above" cheeseball tactic. Basically you activate your jump jets to position yourself directly above an enemy mech and let him have it with everything you have.

[Lynx7725]

Let's not forget the "Death From Above" cheeseball tactic. Basically you activate your jump jets to position yourself directly above an enemy mech and let him have it with everything you have.

That's not Death From Above. DFA is when you deliberately crash into someone upon landing. On the board game, it's somewhat difficult to pull off and not always useful, and in the PC games it generally takes quite a bit of skill to pull off.

[Wanzerfan]

That's not Death From Above. DFA is when you deliberately crash into someone upon landing. On the board game, it's somewhat difficult to pull off and not always useful, and in the PC games it generally takes quite a bit of skill to pull off.

My mistake. Somebody explained it to me the way I described it in the early nineties. Thanks for setting me straight.

[Greyryder]

Also known as the Damned Fool Attack, because it gives every unit on the board a valid line of sight to you.

[wolfx]

It apparently only works if your mech is heavier than the one you're stepping on or something?

A jenner stepping on a Atlas is pretty lol anyway.

[Dangard Ace]

It apparently only works if your mech is heavier than the one you're stepping on or something?

A jenner stepping on a Atlas is pretty lol anyway.

Unless it's stepping on the head and crushes it.

IIRC DFA is basically kick damage done to the upper portion of a mech. Any mech could do it. The great weight equalizer.

[Wanzerfan]

It apparently only works if your mech is heavier than the one you're stepping on or something?

A jenner stepping on a Atlas is pretty lol anyway.

Yeah, rather humorous imagining that.

Your Jenner's main job when encountering an Atlas is to circle the freaking thing peppering it with its shoddy ordinace until your buddy in the Warhammer lets him have it with his Particle Projectle Cannons linked with his shoulder mounted missles (and I'm not talking about his six pack mounted above the right shoulder) for good measure. Even more fun when a PPC-laden Marauder joins in on the party to take that Atlas down.

God help that Atlas if a Madcat Prime decides to join in on the party.

Edited August 7, 2009 by Wanzerfan

[IHATEYOU]

damage from dfa is 3 times 1/10 attacker weight so max damage is 30(3 * 10 for a hundred tonner). damage is divided into 5 point groups so crushing the head out right would usually require 3 five point groupings to strike the head(max head armor 9pts + 3pts internal structure). even 2 hits going to the head would only cause a roll on the critical hit table. it's not really likely that you would ever crush the head.

[Lynx7725]

damage from dfa is 3 times 1/10 attacker weight so max damage is 30(3 * 10 for a hundred tonner). damage is divided into 5 point groups. it's not really likely that you would ever crush the head.

You roll on the upper torso table, so the odds of a head hit is 1 in 6. It's not so much the head destruction, but the pilot hits.

[Vostok 7]

So, about those Unseens becoming Reseen again... (this time can we avoid the flamebaiting?) Pretty cool news! Definitely time for me to pick up the new 25th anniversary goodies coming out!

Vostok 7

[Lynx7725]

So, about those Unseens becoming Reseen again... (this time can we avoid the flamebaiting?)

Unfortunately, we can't avoid the flamebaiting.

[theplasticwerks]

Unfortunately, we can't avoid the flamebaiting.

Ayup. Well, we still have a few left to us...

[Pat Payne]

Ayup. Well, we still have a few left to us...

I'm just glad that at least we still have the Locust, Shadow Hawk, BattleMaster, The Ost-Mechs, Wolverine, Goliath... basically anything that can't be directly tied to Macross.

But I had this feeling it was just too good to be true... HG was not gonna give up that easily.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Pat Payne

[Pat Payne]

You roll on the upper torso table, so the odds of a head hit is 1 in 6. It's not so much the head destruction, but the pilot hits.

You'd be surprised, Lynx -- in one game I was in in college, every kill save one was a clean head destruction.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Pat Payne

[Vostok 7]

Unfortunately, we can't avoid the flamebaiting.

I had this feeling in the pit of my stomach that this was just too good to be true. Can we blame HG again?

It just sucks because I care little about the other unseens, well, other than the BattleMaster and maybe the Shadow Hawk. I could also care less about the LAMs. I just want my Warhammer, Rifleman and Marauder!

Vostok 7

[IHATEYOU]

Can we blame HG again?

We reviewed documents, talked to a great many people, and spent time with some lawyers. We felt we had a solid position.

Sadly, some of the information we acted upon turned out to be inaccurate. Twelve of the ‘Unseen’ images previously used within the BattleTech universe were involved in a court case in the 1990s: Archer, Longbow, Rifleman, Warhammer, Wasp, Stinger, Phoenix Hawk, Crusader, Marauder, Stinger LAM, Wasp LAM and Phoenix Hawk LAM. This we knew. But at the end of that court case, as part of a confidential settlement, it was agreed that the sole and exclusive world-wide right to these images (outside of Japan) would rest with another US company.

i don't think HG is solely to blame. i had assumed that they had licensed the rights to use these images from HG. Apparently the good people at Catalyst were unaware that there is some US company that holds the sole rights to macross outside of japan and decided that they could sell a product using these images.

[Vostok 7]

i don't think HG is solely to blame. i had assumed that they had licensed the rights to use these images from HG. Apparently the good people at Catalyst were unaware that there is some US company that holds the sole rights to macross outside of japan and decided that they could sell a product using these images.

And that company is? All together now!

If only HG could agree to let them use the designs. They're probably still butthurt over the whole FASA/Playmates thing.

Vostok 7

[taksraven]

Unfortunately, we can't avoid the flamebaiting.

It did seem too good to be true. The legal nightmare continues......

Taksraven

[Vostok 7]

Weird double post.

Vostok 7

Edited August 12, 2009 by Vostok 7

[VF5SS]

Wait until Sunrise gets through with them.

[Duke Togo]

i had assumed that they had licensed the rights to use these images from HG.

They don't control those designs, unless we are considering their use in Battletech as merchandising.

[VF5SS]

Everything in Battletech is merchandise. It's a tabletop game for christsakes.

[IHATEYOU]

They don't control those designs, unless we are considering their use in Battletech as merchandising.

you mean announcing the use of these designs to sell a product doesn't count as merchandising. isn't that the definition of merchandising?

Edited August 12, 2009 by IHATEYOU

[Mr March]

Unfortunately, we can't avoid the flamebaiting.

Saw this on the MAHQ. I have to say, this Catalyst Games company sounds quite uninformed. They say they researched prior to commencing plans to return these mecha, but didn't know that a lawsuit in the mid 1990's was what originally disallowed the designs from FASA and it's products? How could they not have known that? Worse still, how could they not be aware that HG used the designs in Robotech?

At this point, one has to wonder if these people at Catalyst are at all aware that these designs are originally from a 25 year old animated show from Japan. I'm beginning to suspect they are totally ignorant of Big West or the 2002 Japanese case that gave Big West final ownership over the designs. Which is doubly surprising, given that all this is on Wikipedia. "Research" indeed

Edited August 12, 2009 by Mr March

[Einherjar]

At this point, one has to wonder if these people at Catalyst are at all aware that these designs are originally from a 25 year old animated show from Japan. I'm beginning to suspect they are totally ignorant of Big West or the 2002 Japanese case that gave Big West final ownership over the designs. Which is doubly surprising, given that all this is on Wikipedia. "Research" indeed

Hopefully, in their excitement Catalyst Games didn't unintentionally restart a maelstrom of legal troubles in an unrelated situation again. Way to drop the ball, professionals.

But Mechwarrior 4, are they still planning to offer it free?

Edited August 12, 2009 by Einherjar

[wolfx]

Someone pls explain this "unseen" means and how does it relate to canon?

I'm guessing its the mechs contested by HG to be infringing their copyright and in canon they made the mechs rare or something?

[thegunny]

Someone pls explain this "unseen" means and how does it relate to canon?

I'm guessing its the mechs contested by HG to be infringing their copyright and in canon they made the mechs rare or something?

It hasn't affected canon in any way. The mechs are still usable in the game, it's only their images are not allowed to be used. The mechs are not rare. Originally they just re-published the TRO's with the offending mechs removed then they later redesigned the image which let to the god awful Project Phoenix mechs then in the Phoenix Upgrades TRO (I think) they just used blacked out silouettes when refering to the unseens.

I think unseen comes from the fact you can still use the figures and specs but can't officially publish any images.

[wolfx]

thanks for that thegunny. Very informative.

[Lynx7725]

All this does throw the Mechwarrior:Rewind game into some confusion. Is that a Warhammer... or not?

[Vostok 7]

All this does throw the Mechwarrior:Rewind game into some confusion. Is that a Warhammer... or not?

In the trailer I saw, it was a "Phoenix" Reseen Warhammer. Fortunately, they made it look actually good.

Vostok 7

[VF5SS]

It wasn't the Project Phoenix design. It was a retooled Destroid.

[Pat Payne]

Wait until Sunrise gets through with them.

IIRC, Sunrise may not have a leg to stand on in this one -- it seems that FASA way back when actually had a valid license for the images. The reason the Dougram and other non-Macross mecha were unseen'd was that FASA panicked in the wake of the HG suit and decided that any 'Mech design that did not come from a FASA artist had to be retired, just because they were concerned about other legal tangles. That's why the IIC 'mechs (even of non-Unseen designs) were made Unseen (not that I'm complaining, they were mostly fugly anyway): The copyright, even though they were made under a commission from FASA, was held by JVC Victor.

And, even so, would Sunrise go to the matresses for a number of half-remembered anime franchises that they have little marketing for? If this were Gundam, I'd see them fighting vigorously -- not so much for Dougram.

And be fair to the guys at Catalyst: The FASA v. Playmates/HG settlement is a sealed settlement that's never to be made public knowledge -- it could well be that the details were "need to know" only amongst the people at FASA, and that stuff never got communicated to later rightsholders after FASA went out of business, until those other rightsholders (WizKids, FanPro and Catalyst/In Media Res) had to go digging through paperwork to find out just how far their rights to the properties DID stretch. Randall Bills himself may well have not been told the particulars outside of "you can't use that artwork in books anymore." And it was a near-20-year-old litigation -- people's memories aren't perfect.

Therefore, he may have thought they were in the right with a first pass over of the paperwork, and then, a month later a lawyer may have said "umm... remember when we said you could use 24 designs? Sorry, it's only 12 you can really use."

Edited August 14, 2009 by Pat Payne

[VF5SS]

Sunrise doesn't have a leg to stand on? Are you just stupid or something?