SDF MACROSS on blu-ray

[Keith]

Thanks Keith. Do you have a copy of the e-mail or know of a website where I can read its contents?

Because without either, it falls under the category of Internet heresay.

I'm sure someone keeps copies of those mailing lists somewhere, but I wouldn't be that person. Might just want to e-mail animeigo, It's not like it's a secret.

[Mercurial Morpheus]

I kinda suspected something was up when the Southern Cross and MOSPEADA DVDs came out.

So I can't say I was surprised when HG refused to renew their license.

I'm not sure if they got into bed with ADV right after they signed the AnimEigo license, or if they were just using AnimEigo to get the video remastered at no cost to their REAL DVD manufacturer.

The thing that peeved me about it was how they chopped up AnimEigo's remastered footage back into Robotech after refusing to do it themselves. Why remaster when you can just confiscate it after someone else does it for you? To turn a labor of love by another company into that shodily done dreck (watching "Force of Arms with "Rick's" confession of love that he later worries about not having done sort of augments this fact) was just pouring salt into the wound. They even let ADV restore Mospeada and Southern Cross. Though I've always suspected that that only happened because ADV didn't want to get upshown by their smaller competitor.

[Sketch]

Thanks Keith. Do you have a copy of the e-mail or know of a website where I can read its contents?

Because without either, it falls under the category of Internet heresay.

It might be worth checking google's cache of alt.fan.macross, I remember that particular information being posted there at some point.

[Zinjo]

*As opposed to releasing the same Robotech episodes in six different packages with different bonus features at the same time! That won't cause ANY confusion at ALL!

Well HG has never been the smartest business operator. The Agrama's are all about making money and will sell cow dung if the public will pay for it.

Judging by some of the HG staffers I've met at cons, they are not the shrewdest business team I've ever met and tend to be intimdated by fans who know more about the source animes than they do...

[JB0]

The thing that peeved me about it was how they chopped up AnimEigo's remastered footage back into Robotech after refusing to do it themselves.

Especially after they said Robotech COULDN'T be remastered, because the cut and edit lists were lost.

Harmony Gold: Insulting your intelligence since 1999.

Edited February 20, 2009 by JB0

[Macross007]

Especially after they said Robotech COULDN'T be remastered, because the cut and edit lists were lost.

Harmony Gold: Insulting your intelligence since 1999.

No, since 1985.

[JB0]

No, since 1985.

I was 4 in 1985. Trust me, I was that dumb.

1999 saw the start of some utterly horrible PR.

I was actually on the RT forums at the time. This was before they started deleting references to Yamato.

Were some good people there. Was just way too busy for my tastes.

[Ishimaru]

I was 4 in 1985. Trust me, I was that dumb.

1999 saw the start of some utterly horrible PR.

I was actually on the RT forums at the time. This was before they started deleting references to Yamato.

Were some good people there. Was just way too busy for my tastes.

Why would they do that?

Does HG gets pissed everytime someone mentions something Macross related?

But honestly I won't mind a Blu-Ray transfer, but it'll never see the light of day here in NA. So it doesn't really matter..

Edited February 20, 2009 by Ishimaru

[Mercurial Morpheus]

It's simple really. If you made and charged 100 bucks for the Toynami "Masterpiece" Veritechs, would you really want people telling your mostly closed in fanbase how much cooler the near equally priced Yamatos are? It's a corporate site after all. Heck, there's still plenty of RT people seemingly unaware Robotech's a hack job or unwilling to touch anything non-HG.

It's got nothing to do with Macross (they even have a dedicated board to the originals), and all about marketing. I can't blame them to be honest. At least they're not banning Frontier discussion to protect SC.

Though these are the guys that reauthored a CD collection just because one stupid guy bitched about them not mutilating some audio by faking stereo mixes, all because he felt he shouldn't be forced to listen to something recorded in mono in mono in the 21st century. So they're really odd. Man was that messed up. "Johnny doesn't give a rat's @ss about musical intergrity, so lets put it to a vote for the laymans and mess up something we actually got right the first time."

[HannouHeiki]

I agree. If they redid it now, Focker wouldn't smoke, and Kakizaki would be eating a nice healthy salad instead of steak. And the Zentradi would ALWAYS shoot first.

Good guys quit smoking in the 90s.

Not once did Ray smoke in Ghosbusters 2.

[TheLoneWolf]

The information about AnimEigo getting audio masters direct from Japan came directly from Robert Woodhead on AnimEigo's mailing list while the remaster was going on.

I always thought that story sounded kinda fishy. I didn't understand why Big West or Bandai would give audio reels to AnimEigo and not the video reels. What really boggled my mind was that Big West or Bandai would willingly assist a project that puts money into Harmony Gold's coffers; in addition to paying Harmony Gold for the license to release Macross, Harmony Gold probably received a percentage on all of AnimEigo's Macross DVD sales.

Anyways Keith, thanks for suggesting that I contact AnimEigo directly, it was a great idea! Robert Woodhead said that AnimEigo got all of their audio and video masters directly from Harmony Gold, they received nothing from Japan. The audio track sounds good because AnimEigo remastered it themselves. Kudos to AnimEigo!

[Zinjo]

I always thought that story sounded kinda fishy. I didn't understand why Big West or Bandai would give audio reels to AnimEigo and not the video reels. What really boggled my mind was that Big West or Bandai would willingly assist a project that puts money into Harmony Gold's coffers; in addition to paying Harmony Gold for the license to release Macross, Harmony Gold probably received a percentage on all of AnimEigo's Macross DVD sales.

Anyways Keith, thanks for suggesting that I contact AnimEigo directly, it was a great idea! Robert Woodhead said that AnimEigo got all of their audio and video masters directly from Harmony Gold, they received nothing from Japan. The audio track sounds good because AnimEigo remastered it themselves. Kudos to AnimEigo!

OK, that latest quote sounds a bit fishy to me!

Why say one thing when HG didn't care and another while they are actively blocking new Macross productions from being licensed?

Maybe because he is contractually obligated? Wouldn't surprise me.

HG has long been taking their pointers from the GW Bush camp... Claim as fact what isn't there and then hide the truth...

[shiroikaze]

While I REALLY want to see the knife fight reanimated, let's be honest here.

That scene actually broke my heart... After watching Macross 7 and reading articles about Macross (especially about Max and Millia) I was expecting something so epic and romantic and awesome in the original series. I sat through Robotech (Yeah, I haven't even downloaded the original yet) just to watch them get together. That knife fight was so bad, I couldn't even see straight after that.

[JB0]

That scene actually broke my heart... After watching Macross 7 and reading articles about Macross (especially about Max and Millia) I was expecting something so epic and romantic and awesome in the original series. I sat through Robotech (Yeah, I haven't even downloaded the original yet) just to watch them get together. That knife fight was so bad, I couldn't even see straight after that.

As I understand it, the M&M courtship was SUPPOSED to be more involved than what was animated, and it was one of the things scrapped when their 3-season story was cut to two seasons(before being extended back out to 3 seasons again after they'd edited it down).

But yeah, I'm an M&M fan. I WANT to love that episode. It just hurts my retinas.

[Bri]

I'd definetly grab a Blue Ray version if it ever comes out, I don't mind the lack of subtitles. Seen the series often enough to know what is said even without reading it.

Annoyingly same goes for the Robotech dialog

Found my old VHS tapes last week, recorded the show when it aired here in '87. They are still in pretty good shape

Edited March 18, 2009 by Bri

[Mr March]

Now that I have a high resolution LCD monitor/TV, I'm beginning to see the limitations of DVD much more clearly. I'd definitely go Blu-Ray for an SDF Macross set.

[Macross007]

I have already paid 300 bucks (yes ladies and gentlemen, 300 F*UCKING BUCKS !!!) for the remastered SDFM box on DVD from Japan. I will pass for a Blu Ray release.

[Mr March]

Hey, I plopped down $250 for the set too and I'd do it again. I've no regrets.

But that's way in the past now. I'd go for a Blu-Ray SDF Macross set, no question about it.

[shiroikaze]

I envy you guys being able to plop down money on the spot for sets, toys, and model kits with little to no (or some) hesitation--Even if you guys have the money or somewhat not.

It's funky to me that I now have the means to buy those lovely items but goddamn those numerical figures hurt.

Edited March 18, 2009 by shiroikaze

[Mr March]

Well, let's use a little perspective. I mean, it was ages ago when I laid out $250 for the SDF Macross Animeigo set. It's not like I'm dropping $250 a day, yes?

Besides, I doubt we'll ever see that kind of cost for a set ever again. Blu-Ray or not, I ain't paying another $250 for SDF Macross

[Macross007]

I envy you guys being able to plop down money on the spot for sets, toys, and model kits with little to no (or some) hesitation--Even if you guys have the money or somewhat not.

It's funky to me that I now have the means to buy those lovely items but goddamn those numerical figures hurt.

Make choices then. For my part, the DVDs take the priority over the rest (mangas, magazines, model kits, toys, soundtracks, etc). I have ALL the remastered japansese DVDs of Macross (except Macross Frontier and yes I paid for Macross 7 DVDs) and just one toy (the 1/60 version of the YF-19 with fold booster and FAST pack). I decided to support the franchise and buying the DVD releases is the best way I can do this without ruining my bank account. I am still a college student living with his parents after all.

Edited March 18, 2009 by Macross007

[shiroikaze]

Well, let's use a little perspective. I mean, it was ages ago when I laid out $250 for the SDF Macross Animeigo set. It's not like I'm dropping $250 a day, yes?

Besides, I doubt we'll ever see that kind of cost for a set ever again. Blu-Ray or not, I ain't paying another $250 for SDF Macross

That's a neat way of seeing things, I shall use it and not abuse it!

Make choices then. For my part, the DVDs take the priority over the rest (mangas, magazines, model kits, toys, soundtracks, etc). I have ALL the remastered japansese DVDs of Macross (except Macross Frontier and yes I paid for Macross 7 DVDs) and just one toy (the 1/60 version of the YF-19 with fold booster and FAST pack). I decided to support the franchise and buying the DVD releases is the best way I can do this without ruining my bank account. I am still a college student living with his parents after all.

I see what you mean and for sure I won't be buying everything that catches my eye. It's just even though I have the money to buy a set or valkyrie, I just don't feel ready to lay down the money for the luxury. Like for example the 1/60 VF-1A Hikaru v2 for $75 over at HLJ.

But to stay sorta on topic, do you think we'll ever see a reanimated (not reimagined) SDF-1?

[Gubaba]

I see what you mean and for sure I won't be buying everything that catches my eye. It's just even though I have the money to buy a set or valkyrie, I just don't feel ready to lay down the money for the luxury. Like for example the 1/60 VF-1A Hikaru v2 for $75 over at HLJ.

Yeah, I've always stayed away from the toys because I have too much of the collector's streak in me...if I started getting them, I'd have to try to track down ALL of them. (I do have most of the Hasegawas, however). I'd rather stick to books and magazines for the time being, because that gives me translation fodder.

But to stay sorta on topic, do you think we'll ever see a reanimated (not reimagined) SDF-1?

I don't know why people keep clamoring for this...yes, a lot of the animation in the original series is crappy. Yes, a visual revamp would bring in new fans, while the use of the old audio would ensure that the project didn't go off course. But I can't for the life of me think of any instance where this has been done. I don't think there are many advantages for the creative staff, and the audience would mostly likely be disappointed.

Now, if they wanted to do something a la Gundam Evolve Episode 15, where they redid part of a TV episode with new animation, that'd be fine. But for the whole series? I think Macross the First will fit that bill nicely enough.

[azrael]

I don't know why people keep clamoring for this...yes, a lot of the animation in the original series is crappy. Yes, a visual revamp would bring in new fans, while the use of the old audio would ensure that the project didn't go off course. But I can't for the life of me think of any instance where this has been done. I don't think there are many advantages for the creative staff, and the audience would mostly likely be disappointed.

SDF Macross: A New Translation?

Come on, where that loud "NO" I wanna hear?

[shiroikaze]

I don't know why people keep clamoring for this...yes, a lot of the animation in the original series is crappy. Yes, a visual revamp would bring in new fans, while the use of the old audio would ensure that the project didn't go off course. But I can't for the life of me think of any instance where this has been done. I don't think there are many advantages for the creative staff, and the audience would mostly likely be disappointed.

Now, if they wanted to do something a la Gundam Evolve Episode 15, where they redid part of a TV episode with new animation, that'd be fine. But for the whole series? I think Macross the First will fit that bill nicely enough.

Well, there are actually some anime where they actually fixed up the animation for the DVD release. I can't think of any titles right now except all three seasons of Nanoha... I didn't really mean give the series a visual revamp but fix some errors here and there (like the coffee spill cutting through Max's arm). But then again, SDF-1 is was on traditional medium whereas the anime's that got the visual upgrade were all digitally produced I guess...

I guess they could put out on OVA I suppose. *goes to download Gundam Evolve 15*

[Gubaba]

Well, there are actually some anime where they actually fixed up the animation for the DVD release. I can't think of any titles right now except all three seasons of Nanoha... I didn't really mean give the series a visual revamp but fix some errors here and there (like the coffee spill cutting through Max's arm). But then again, SDF-1 is was on traditional medium whereas the anime's that got the visual upgrade were all digitally produced I guess...

I guess they could put out on OVA I suppose. *goes to download Gundam Evolve 15*

Select scenes would be kind of cool, but redoing most of the series (let's face it, A LOT of the episodes look terrible) would, as Azrael said, be too akin to the Zeta Gundam movies for comfort. I mean, I enjoyed them, but as a one-off experiment, not the new standard.

It occurs to me, though, that if they DID do a "Macross Evolve" kind of thing, they'd probably take scenes that already looked good in SDFM and make them look better, rather than redoing Max and Millia's wedding march or something...

[JB0]

Select scenes would be kind of cool, but redoing most of the series (let's face it, A LOT of the episodes look terrible) would, as Azrael said, be too akin to the Zeta Gundam movies for comfort. I mean, I enjoyed them, but as a one-off experiment, not the new standard.

There's a few glaring errors it'd be nice to see fixed, though the traditional animation VS digital production makes that a huge undertaking.

One that springs to mind is...there's a head-on shot of Kakizaki in his Valk cockpit, engine exhaust trailing behind him in one of the episodes. And they stacked it wrong for one cut to that shot, so the exhaust is the top layer instead of behind everything but space.

The episode isn't one of the bad ones, and the error is ... well, not subtle, but not obvious either. It took me a few viewings to figure out WHAT was wrong, though I could tell something WAS wrong.

But yeah... Macross is not Evangelion. Macross is not Gundam.

No one will reanimate the series, nor even just the bad episodes.

[TheLoneWolf]

Why say one thing when HG didn't care and another while they are actively blocking new Macross productions from being licensed?

Maybe because he is contractually obligated? Wouldn't surprise me.

You misunderstood my last post. Robert Woodhead never changed his statement regarding the audio track, Macross fans changed his statement about the audio track.

During my research I came across this thread?, dated from 2000, where Keith quotes Robert Woodhead as stating that AnimEigo remastered the Macross audio track. Years later, Macross fans somehow managed to convolute the story by saying that AnimEigo got their Macross audio track from Japan. That's why I contacted AnimEigo, to set the record straight.

AnimEigo and Robert Woodhead have never given out contradictory statements regarding the audio track, they've always maintained that they obtained it from Harmony Gold and remastered it themselves. Macross fans (fueled by anti-Harmony Gold sentiments?) dreamt up the false notion that, since AnimEigo's Macross audio track is superior to ADV's Macross audio track, then they must have gotten it from Japan.

[Mr March]

Select scenes would be kind of cool, but redoing most of the series (let's face it, A LOT of the episodes look terrible) would, as Azrael said, be too akin to the Zeta Gundam movies for comfort. I mean, I enjoyed them, but as a one-off experiment, not the new standard.

It occurs to me, though, that if they DID do a "Macross Evolve" kind of thing, they'd probably take scenes that already looked good in SDFM and make them look better, rather than redoing Max and Millia's wedding march or something...

That's the problem with going back and revising. Every fan has a different idea of what should be replaced and what shouldn't be. Even some of the awful animated scenes in the original SDF Macross series work well as they were intended. Not many, mind you, but some do. If Kawamori and Co. decided to reanimate ALL the poor animation in SDF Macross (such as many of STAR PRO's episodes), some scenes that shouldn't be reanimated will be. And where do they draw the line at the Studio Nue episodes? Some of them are better than others, but a few scenes could use re-working.

And what if one or two sequences are re-worked such that they significantly change things? It doesn't take much. That would be awful! Plus, Kawamori, doesn't have the same sensibilities now as he had back in 1982.

Just sounds like a bad idea. I'd love improved animation for SDF Macross as much as the next fan, but too many things can go wrong.

[Bri]

I'm not a fan of messing around with original work other then doing some enhancing to make the work suitable for new formats like DVD /Blue Ray.

It would be nice if SDFM would get the same treatment as Gundam or Zeta Gundam in a 3 part movie box as a seperate entity. Even more tempting would be a NGE like treatment like 1.0. Won't happen but hey I can dream. ( Im sure a few more successes like Frontier would help a lot).

I'm sure everyone on the boards would go mental at the concept of seeing SFDM redone in a 3 or 4 part movie set with DYRL like animation and the latest CGI.

And what if one or two sequences are re-worked such that they significantly change things? It doesn't take much. That would be awful! Plus, Kawamori, doesn't have the same sensibilities now as he had back in 1982.

You touch on a very interesting point. SDFM still stands out amongst the other Macross works for it's great character development. I wonder how much influence Ishiguro, Tomita and Matsuzaki had on the story and character development compared to Kawamori (and Ohnogi). I'm not saying that they were more important but maybe they added something special to the mix that when the team broke up the franchise never really got that vibe back.

[Mr March]

As long as I have my choice of productions, I don't care about changes.

If Kawamori want's to re-write SDF Macross differently from the original Studio Nue vision and into peace, love and flowers, let him. If Big West wants to completely reanimate SDF Macross and model all the Valkyries and ships in CGI, more power to them. If they want to reanimate SDF Macross for the purposes of a re-imagining of the series, go ahead. I only have one condition: the original, unedited SDF Macross series must remain available for purchase AND made available upon on each new video format in the future. That's it. Because as long as the original SDF Macross endures and is treated with respect, a thousand lousy sequels, remakes, revisions, re-imaginings or re-animations can't hurt when I still have the option to buy the original.

Listen to the wisdom of Ridley Scott; release all the Blade Runner versions in one big set and let the fans sort it out. It works.

Edited March 18, 2009 by Mr March

[Bri]

Aren't we saying the same thing? Leave the original alone and make derivatives or change it and do what ever with it as long as the original is remains avaiable to the fans gives the same net result?

reading back: I meant mental as in going crazy in a positive way.

[Mr March]

Perhaps, but personally, I don't trust them to leave well enough alone. I'd rather go without a re-worked SDF Macross series than take the chance they'll revise SDF Macross and dump the original work. My ultimate dream would be to see the original preserved and re-released forever in tandem with a re-worked version, but that's an optimal situation unlikely to happen, IMO. Perhaps I'm just to reactionary after the old days of Robodreck, but that's my position.

[Zinjo]

You misunderstood my last post. Robert Woodhead never changed his statement regarding the audio track, Macross fans changed his statement about the audio track.

During my research I came across this thread?, dated from 2000, where Keith quotes Robert Woodhead as stating that AnimEigo remastered the Macross audio track. Years later, Macross fans somehow managed to convolute the story by saying that AnimEigo got their Macross audio track from Japan. That's why I contacted AnimEigo, to set the record straight.

AnimEigo and Robert Woodhead have never given out contradictory statements regarding the audio track, they've always maintained that they obtained it from Harmony Gold and remastered it themselves. Macross fans (fueled by anti-Harmony Gold sentiments?) dreamt up the false notion that, since AnimEigo's Macross audio track is superior to ADV's Macross audio track, then they must have gotten it from Japan.

I suspect the theory was derived due to the lack of the audio track's use in the ADV dub. The re-mastered video was used, but new sound effects were created for both the dub and the Japanese audio tracks. The assumption was made that HG didn't have the rights to the remastered audio, therefore did not use it.

However the wildcard is ADV. They are not much better than HG when it comes to respecting the original source material. With the exception of Evangelion, where the producers were rabid Eva fans, all their other works have been subject to "interpretation" by the script, ADR and production staff...

As for a re-animation of SDFM. When I come to think of it, I wouldn't mind a re-telling of the original story via a series of OVAs. It would be an opportunity for Kawamori to expand on areas that weren't really covered in the series and have the opportunity to really ramp up the Valk action with CGI...

Edited March 18, 2009 by Zinjo

[Sdf Prime]

If people saw a retelling of SDF Macross it might get people to check out the original SDF macross tv series to see the original source material. If a retelling of the story were going to happen how would everyone like it to be done? As a series of movies or would a aeries of OVA's be better? If they did a retelling I would want them to have Mikimoto do any character design updates.