LOL Macross Sizes

[sucker4meltrans]

No the real question is why such large objects have such thin armor at some times allowing mere VFs and Q-rau to go through the outer hull.

The factory sat has to be incredibly larger then a Fulbentz Burrentz class mother ship to awe Misa and the others. You have a thousand mother ships each with a fleet of ship that are 1-3km long in tens/hundreds of thousands. Each of these fleet ships contain nearly endless numbers of smaller 1 man/squad sized craft. Piloting all this is Trillions of 13m tall giants.

You will need moon sized facilities to build this all in space.

Edited March 10, 2009 by sucker4meltrans

[Cyclone Trooper]

I do remember reading someplace (maybe the Gold Book?) that the Protoculture not only had the Factory Satellites, but also had entire Manufacturing Planets that built the larger aspects of any given Zentraedi/Meltrandi fleet (like the Boldolzur and Lap Lamiz mega-ships and Vhrlitwai Adoclass Command Ships). Apparently these planet-sized manufacturing facilities are also responsible for cranking out the satellite factories too. If that be the case, it's not out of the realm of believability that a factory satellite could be roughly as large as our moon. As far as I know, no one's ever said if these are Earth-sized manufacturing planets.

As far as resources go, since Kawamori went the route of using DYRL designs with TV storyline in Macross F, I've always wondered about Zentran/Meltran technology. By all appearances, the Zentraedi and Meltrandi use a heavy amount of what looks like a fusion of biotechnology and cybernetics. DYRL/Macross F-era Zentran ships look like organic sea creatures with internal structures resembling muscle tissue. Bodolzure himself was little more than a head in a jar with dozens of cybernetic links hooked to him. His "arms" were massive versions of the same tentacle-like arms that Exedole has, and even featured "hands" that, again, resemble slabs of exposed muscle. Britai (and all other clones like him) all have the cybernetic eyepiece and weird bio-wiring at the rear base of the neck. The Meltrandi ships all look like they're roughly chisled out of stone instead of forged metal and Lap Lamiz is little more than a head atop a membrane filled with some sort of foggy gas. The resources used then seem to be "grown" instead of mined from a planet's crust like we would normally do in building starships. But no matter how much we debate things like this, we'll probably never get straight answers...just like what happened to Megaroad-01...because it seems as time goes on (and new series are added to the mix), definitive information is becoming more and more fluid instead of a fixed set of numbers.

[DarkReaper]

Also you would have needed to stripmine several thousand moons to build them.

[maczero]

Macross SDF: Episode 30

Nupetiet (4000m) and Satellite Factory (500km??)

I think that 3000 km is better

[RedWolf]

New One

[SchizophrenicMC]

Also you would have needed to stripmine several thousand moons to build them.

You'd maybe need to stripmine one.

I mean, the Halo Installations are made from a single stripmined planet. All 8 of them...

[anime52k8]

You'd maybe need to stripmine one.

I mean, the Halo Installations are made from a single stripmined planet. All 8 of them...

well the halo rings are fairly low mass for their size.

[Killer Robot]

No matter how big the factory satellites themselves are, just for the Zentradi fleets we're talking about billions of ships and trillions of Zentradi made over hundreds of thousands of years: and that few if there were only a few fleets of the size that attacked Earth, given constant attrition due to war and lack of maintenance. The numbers are staggering in any case. Fortunately, the amount of useful mass in the galaxy is also staggering, so it works out okay.

[macrossvf-1msx]

before this topic I always though the Macross Cannon BS , But now they look like they sould be in canon

their perfect for the non colonization Fleets oF U.N. Spacy

Edited March 11, 2009 by macrossvf-1msx

[DarkReaper]

You'd maybe need to stripmine one.

I mean, the Halo Installations are made from a single stripmined planet. All 8 of them...

The 3000km factory satellite has about the same volume as the moon. It stands to reason that there are barely enough usable metals on the moon to build even one satellite.

[RedWolf]

The new revised one.

[Kelsain]

The new revised one.

It's getting to the point where I can't tell what's been added. It's pretty cool, though.

[RedWolf]

It's getting to the point where I can't tell what's been added. It's pretty cool, though.

Last one was Island 3.

Ships included gets progressively smaller thus not that noticed. The new one has the Re-entry pod.

I'm beginning to think Battle 7 and Battle Frontier have similar heights in Attacker mode.

The extra 171 meters of Battle Frontier's carrier mode length is at its flight deck.

[sketchley]

Technically that should be "ICC-25", not "NMC-25".

See: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/forums/index.php?topic=2017.0

[RedWolf]

Technically that should be "ICC-25", not "NMC-25".

On screen footage disputes that.

NMCV-025

Edited March 11, 2009 by RedWolf

[sketchley]

Not this debate again

See http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=28808 for why the footage is rejected from canon.

[RedWolf]

Not this debate again

Symbolic in the sense that colonization from Earth began in 2012.

That does not violate these designations are invalid.

Island Cluster Class as the name implies a central mega island and a cluster of islands connected.

Does that mean that Megaroad designations of SDF are invalid? No.

SDF, NMCV likely refers to the flagship designations. Designations not names of the ships.

Meaning Battle sections like Battle 7 and Battle Frontier are formally known as New Macross Class Aircraft Carriers with the designation NMCV.

Similar to as to the SDFN-04 designation of Global. Is it called a SDFN Class? No it is a Macross Class. But its formal designation number is SDFN-04.

Edited March 11, 2009 by RedWolf

[Killer Robot]

I'm beginning to think Battle 7 and Battle Frontier have similar heights in Attacker mode.

The extra 171 meters of Battle Frontier's carrier mode length is at its flight deck.

The images would seem to bear that out, but it's still confusing: if the sizes are so similar and the extra length is in the flight deck, I wonder why Battle Frontier is over twice the mass of Battle 7.

[RedWolf]

The images would seem to bear that out, but it's still confusing: if the sizes are so similar and the extra length is in the flight deck, I wonder why Battle Frontier is over twice the mass of Battle 7.

I'd venture to guess most of that mass goes to the gunship.

Frontier's gunship can do what Battle 7 can't. Namely fire in carrier mode.

Also note that Battle Frontier is more well armed than Battle 7.

With Battle 7 we can only see two railguns.

[sketchley]

Symbolic in the sense that colonization from Earth began in 2012.

That does not violate these designations are invalid.

Island Cluster Class as the name implies a central mega island and a cluster of islands connected.

Does that mean that Megaroad designations of SDF are invalid? No.

SDF, NMCV likely refers to the flagship designations. Designations not names of the ships.

Meaning Battle sections like Battle 7 and Battle Frontier are formally known as New Macross Class Aircraft Carriers with the designation NMCV.

Similar to as to the SDFN-04 designation of Global. Is it called a SDFN Class? No it is a Macross Class. But its formal designation number is SDFN-04.

Actually, it does.

What's more is that in this situation, especially because you are showing the sizes of the different classes of ships, the class name should be used. Or are you planning to include multiples of the same class, under different designations?

What is a Battle section? Battle 7, Frontier, Galaxy, 13, etc, are all "Battle Class Variable Stealth Attack Space Carriers". (Macross Chronicle, Great Mechanics.DX7, MF Official Fan Book, Newtype, etc., etc., etc., etc.).

Honestly, English speaking fans are misusing "New Macross Class". I'm really curious why. Is it a lack of access to materials? Not understanding Japanese or a lack of accurate translations?

[anime52k8]

Actually, it does.

What's more is that in this situation, especially because you are showing the sizes of the different classes of ships, the class name should be used. Or are you planning to include multiples of the same class, under different designations?

What is a Battle section? Battle 7, Frontier, Galaxy, 13, etc, are all "Battle Class Variable Stealth Attack Space Carriers". (Macross Chronicle, Great Mechanics.DX7, MF Official Fan Book, Newtype, etc., etc., etc., etc.).

Honestly, English speaking fans are misusing "New Macross Class". I'm really curious why. Is it a lack of access to materials? Not understanding Japanese or a lack of accurate translations?

because the way most english speaking fans want to use the term New Macross Class makes more sense. the way the "official" terminology goes is convoluted, often frequently contradictory, and often times rather confusing.

either way, I'm personally going to keep calling them NMC's because it sounds cooler and I really don't care if that's wrong or not.

Edited March 12, 2009 by anime52k8

[Zinjo]

We don't know if it is a VF or a fighter like the F203 Dragon II.

My impression of these fighters is they are either non-variable scouts or a Galaxy built variables that we may never get info on.

Copy Pasta

Using the old Paladin rpg Macross II figures, if they are proportioned which I doubt, I calculated the approximate size of the Macross Cannon in Attacker mode.

245 m (soldier mode) x 6000 m (Macross Cannon length) / 488 m (prone mode) = 3012 meters tall (Macross Cannon Attacker mode)

There is still no definitive stats on the size of these bad boys.

They are larger than the Macross, but I don't believe they are made up of gutted Zentreadi ships (eventhough they look like it) as there is no indication of an engine section on the arms.

However, in the series there is an implication that they were built by the factory satellite and the satellite used existing Zentreadi designs to make the cannon arms.

Whether they were built to existing scale or reduced remains largely unclear, since the animation really didn't give us any decent indicators of scale.

Edited March 11, 2009 by Zinjo

[RedWolf]

seance

Where's the Hory Froating Head pic when we need one?

Okay were getting off the main topic...

Okay the only numbers we have on Macross sizes are the Battle 7 and the Macross refit.

Battle 7: 1,177 meters

Macross Class: 1,200 meters from twin towers to feet. (Based on the toy model)

Now we know the Macross Cannon has what looks like Nupetiet-Vergnitzs on it perhaps we can figure out its size in attacker mode from there.

[SchizophrenicMC]

well the halo rings are fairly low mass for their size.

On the same token, 8 of them were built, each 13000km in diameter, from the same planet. And that planet isn't even stripped to nothing yet. Then, you consider that they're 23km deep, and you get more mass than a Factory Sat, indeed. At least from their combined mass...

MOVING ON:

I still think it's a VF-2JA...

[Zinjo]

Actually, it does.

What's more is that in this situation, especially because you are showing the sizes of the different classes of ships, the class name should be used. Or are you planning to include multiples of the same class, under different designations?

What is a Battle section? Battle 7, Frontier, Galaxy, 13, etc, are all "Battle Class Variable Stealth Attack Space Carriers". (Macross Chronicle, Great Mechanics.DX7, MF Official Fan Book, Newtype, etc., etc., etc., etc.).

Honestly, English speaking fans are misusing "New Macross Class". I'm really curious why. Is it a lack of access to materials? Not understanding Japanese or a lack of accurate translations?

I suspect the confusion between official hull type designations and class names in the West is partly due to how RT referred to the ship as the SDF-1, while in Japan it was referred to as the Macross. It would be like a sailor referring to the Nimitz carrier as the CVN-68 and not the Nimitz.

The Nimitz Class US Carrier is designated as a CVN hull type carrier. The Macross Class is an SDF(N) type warship and the New Macross Carrier is an NMC hull type carrier.

We assume the SDF type designation includes the Megaroad Class colony ship (since we've heard nothing else so far), but we are not definitively sure. It is possible however, that the original SDF designation was adopted for the Megaroad Class because the hull type became 1600m (like the Megalord) and the SDFN hull type could mean Super Dimension Fortress "Nominal" denoting that the warship retained the nominal hull length of the original Macross warship which is 1200m.

The ICC is the hull type designation for the Island Class Colony ship which includes an NMC carrier. This is the first time we've seen a specific hull type designation for a colony ship listed.

Is it possible the City 7 could become a CCC (City Class Colony) hull type colony ship? We simply don't know thus far... It is certainly not an NMC carrier or a SDFN warship.

Edited March 11, 2009 by Zinjo

[sketchley]

I suspect the confusion between official hull type designations and class names in the West is partly due to how RT referred to the ship as the SDF-1, while in Japan it was referred to as the Macross. It would be like a sailor referring to the Nimitz carrier as the CVN-68 and not the Nimitz.

The Nimitz Class US Carrier is designated as a CVN hull type carrier. The Macross Class is an SDF(N) type warship and the New Macross Carrier is an NMC hull type carrier.

We assume the SDF type designation includes the Megaroad Class colony ship (since we've heard nothing else so far), but we are not definitively sure. It is possible however, that the original SDF designation was adopted for the Megaroad Class because the hull type became 1600m (like the Megalord) and the SDFN hull type could mean Super Dimension Fortress "Nominal" denoting that the warship retained the nominal hull length of the original Macross warship which is 1200m.

The ICC is the hull type designation for the Island Class Colony ship which includes an NMC carrier. This is the first time we've seen a specific hull type designation for a colony ship listed.

Is it possible the City 7 could become a CCC (City Class Colony) hull type colony ship? We simply don't know thus far... It is certainly not an NMC carrier or a SDFN warship.

You're confusing things. There is no such thing as a New Macross Carrier.

New Macross Class = Battle Class and City Class ships.

Island Cluster Class = Battle Class and supersized City Class (forgetting the technical name) and Environment (war)Ship* ships.

It is possible that all of the Megaroad Class vessels/super long range emigration fleets are designated SDF. It is even possible that up to the 21st New Macross Class Fleet/ 21st Super Long Range Emigration Fleet / Galaxy Fleet are designated NMC. But, it is very, very clear that the 25th Super Long Range Emigration Fleet / Frontier Fleet is an Island Cluster Class.

FYI: City 7 is a City Class ship （船 is used, not 艦). Attached to Battle 7, a Battle Class Warship (艦 is used, not 船), it becomes the 37th Super Long Range Emigration Fleet and the 7th New Macross Class.

*AKA Island 3, and so on. I'm not sure if translating 艦 as warship is better than just ship, but the original text is making a point in using the more militarized kanji for ship (as in, not 船).

[RedWolf]

Fleets with a Battle Class has the NMCV designation. We don't know what V stands for. As much as N in SDFN does.

But thinking about that V could stand for Variable not Vessel.

As the top of those ships in the OP has New Macross Aircraft Carrier it refers to the military flagship not the colony.

Note that Captain Wilder states the Macross Quarter deserves the Macross title.

Which means any ship that has a big gun and can transform into Attacker mode is considered a Macross. Which if think about it makes sense if Battle 13 is called Macross 13 as a alternate name in VF-X2. Battle 7 has the name also the Big M, M as in Macross.

[sketchley]

You're still not getting it. The openning of Macross F is "representative", not anything else.

[JB0]

because the way most english speaking fans want to use the term New Macross Class makes more seance. the way the "official" terminology goes is convoluted, often frequently contradictory, and often times rather confusing.

either way, I'm personally going to keep calling them NMC's because it sounds cooler and I really don't care if that's wrong or not.

What's this about Neo-Mitochondrial Creatures?

[Zinjo]

You're still not getting it. The openning of Macross F is "representative", not anything else.

So by that logic we could just as correctly surmise that that SDF in the Megaroads are only representative and NOT that of the Megaroad hull type designation?

The fleet icon displays both the New Macross Aircraft Carrier label as well as the NMCV hull designation.

If the hull designation is based on the US naval convention then the "V" stands for Vessel. In that CVN stands for Carrier-Vessel-Nuclear. The NMCV would represent New-Macross-Carrier-Vessel.

"Battle Class Variable Stealth Attack Space Carriers"

That is certainly their full description, but it doesn't explain why Kawamori would approve a misrepresentation of the formal name of the ship, with New Macross Aircraft Carrier (when Island 1 is clearly a colony vessel, not an AC). At worst it's a mis-representation, at best a term of confusion for the audience.

Additionally, why use the designation of NMCV when you've already established that the Frontier is an ICC type of colony ship?

Looking for some better clarification here, since I am seeing a lot of defense of the chronicle books and not as much objective examination of the available information. There is a definite perception of contradiction here. Particularly with the Frontier fleet's hull designations, since we've seen two.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Zinjo

[sketchley]

So by that logic we could just as correctly surmise that that SDF in the Megaroads are only representative and NOT that of the Megaroad hull type designation?

No. That is not what I am saying.

(...) At worst it's a mis-representation, at best a term of confusion for the audience.

I agree with this statement.

(...) Looking for some better clarification here, since I am seeing a lot of defense of the chronicle books and not as much objective examination of the available information.

Who said the info is exclusive to Macross Chronicle? See here for a partial list of other sources: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...st&p=726139

Particularly with the Frontier fleet's hull designations, since we've seen two.

? I believe you're confusing fleet designation with class (or hull, your terminology) designation.

Again to clarify:

the position I have taken is not that the 25th New Macross Class Fleet is not a correct nor incorrect name, just that the image in this image

The new revised one.

is incorrectly labelled as "NMCV-25 Macross Frontier: Island 1", when it should be called "55th Super Long Range Emigration Fleet: Island 1" (or "55th SLREF: Island 1" or "Island 1").

The following also need changing:

"NMCV-25 Macross Frontier: Island 3" should be "55th Super Long Range Emigration Fleet: Environment Ship Island 3" (or "55th SLREF: Environment Ship Island 3" or "Environment Ship Island 3".)

"NMCV-07 Macross-7" should be "35th Super Long Range Emigration Fleet: New Macross 7" (or "35th SLREF: New Macross 7" or "New Macross 7").

(Note: info does not come from Macross Chronicle. Info comes from "Macross Frontier Official Fan Book", "Macross F 2059:Memories" and "Great Mechanics.DX7. I'm sure there are other sources, but there's no need. FYI Macross Chronicle, which is presenting a unified set of Macross stats, published with input from Kawamori-san (can the other publications make the same claim?), states that the fleet number of 25, for the 55th Super Long Range Emigration Fleet, comes from Battle Frontier being the 25th. I'm not able to give an exact translation at this time, but it is very clear that the 55th SLREF is not a New Macross Class Fleet (I believe that it's making the point that the fleet numbers 1~25 come from the Battle Class flagship of the fleet.)

and... I can agree that even if all of the stats presented within an individual series (such as Perfect Memory for SDFM) are unified with each other, the stats from the disparate series are not unified with each other. Macross Chronicle is presenting a unified set of stats, that are consistent with each other.

Edited March 15, 2009 by sketchley

[sketchley]

(...)

The line about the Factory Satellite building Motherships is on the new Macross Compendium, so I just assumed it came from the Chronicle. Perhaps it came from liner notes in the video releases of Frontier. At any rate, it's there. (...)

Started translation of the Factory Satellite sheet. Quickie scanlation:

There are many hundreds of Factory satellites in the Galaxy that make main fleet's mother ship (not the Fulbitzs-Berrentzs Class - could mean any of the larger, Zentraedi capital ships/carriers. There is a seperate entry for Factory Satellites that make battleships).

There is a Mother Plant that makes factory satellites, said to be in the Orion Arm of the galaxy.

The UN Forces have captured more than 20 Factory Satellites.

Therefore, it's highly probable that:

a) the first Factory Satellite captured is around 500 Km,

b) a later captured 5 Km Factory Satellite is in Earth orbit in 2051, and is what the Macross 13 is seen launching/flying over in VF-X2,

c) the Mother Plant is the 3,000 Km tall monstrosity (presumably capable of manufacturing Fulbitzs-Berrentzs Class Fleet Flagships),

d) we have yet to have been shown the Mother Plant or non Fulbitzs-Berrentzs Class fleet mother ships (assuming that the Zentraedi warships that we have been shown to date are not being referred to as mother ships. Which is a fairly big assumption; as both 母艦 vs 空母 have been used in describing the same Vajra ship).

Edited March 12, 2009 by sketchley

[sketchley]

Hmmm... aside from the Compendium, I can't find a size figure (other than Macross Chronicle) for the Factory Satellite. Does anyone know the source of the size figure in the Compendium?

[Zinjo]

? I believe you're confusing fleet designation with class (or hull, your terminology) designation.

Yeah, that occured to me after the fact that I was confusing the Class with the hull designation with respect to the new colony class.

However I am refering to the "hull designation" which is used in the US navy and seems to have been adopted into the Macross universe (SDF-x, SDFN-x, CV-xxx, ARMD-xxx, NMCV-xx, etc...)

Again to clarify:

the position I have taken is not that the 25th New Macross Class Fleet is not a correct nor incorrect name, just that the image in this image

is incorrectly labelled as "NMCV-25 Macross Frontier: Island 1", when it is clearly not the entire fleet (or at least the Battle, City and Environmental Ship components that form the emigration portion of the fleet), and should be called "55th Super Long Range Emigration Fleet: Battle 25 and Island 1" (or "55th SLREF: Battle 25 & Island 1" or "Battle 25 & Island 1").

The following also need changing:

"NMCV-25 Macross Frontier: Island 3" should be "55th Super Long Range Emigration Fleet: Environment Ship Island 3" (or "55th SLREF: Environment Ship Island 3" or "Environment Ship Island 3".)

"NMCV-07 Macross-7" should be "35th Super Long Range Emigration Fleet: Battle 7 & City 7" (or "35th SLREF: Battle 7 & City 7" or "Battle 7 & City 7"); as, again, the image is not of the entire 7th New Macross Class Fleet, let alone all of the emigrant portions of the fleet.

The source of confusion (for me at least) is the use of NMCV as the hull designation. Since the Uraga Class uses the CV designation and it is clearly a carrier. NMCV could represent New Macross Colony Vessel, however that would contradict CV representing Carrier Vessel.

(Note: info does not come from Macross Chronicle. Info comes from "Macross Frontier Official Fan Book", "Macross F 2059:Memories" and "Great Mechanics.DX7. I'm sure there are other sources, but there's no need. FYI Macross Chronicle, which is presenting a unified set of Macross stats, published with input from Kawamori-san (can the other publications make the same claim?)

I would suspect, "Yes" would be the answer to that. Kawamori has already stated on record that he doesn't always remember the details of what has come before.

...states that the fleet number of 25, for the 55th Super Long Range Emigration Fleet, comes from Battle Frontier being the 25th. I'm not able to give an exact translation at this time, but it is very clear that the 55th SLREF is not a New Macross Class Fleet (I believe that it's making the point that the fleet numbers 1~25 come from the Battle Class flagship of the fleet.)

The fleet numbers are certainly derived from the Battle Carriers, that has been consistent over the years.

and... I can agree that even if all of the stats presented within an individual series (such as Perfect Memory for SDFM) are unified with each other, the stats from the disparate series are not unified with each other. Macross Chronicle is presenting a unified set of stats, that are consistent with each other.

Until the next production...

[sketchley]

Until the next production...

That's presuming that the next production won't be included in MC