Revenge of the Sith ROCKED! (spoiler free)

[Roy Focker]

The movie sure was entertaining but would I consider it a good movie? Nah not really

Now that I have spoken the rest of you can shut up.

[Duke Togo]

Now that I have spoken the rest of you can shut up.

Speaking of fay...

[Hurin]

but so many of you are sycophantic fanatics yourselves.

Hurin, why don't you try to restrain yourself from tarring everybody who disagrees with you with the same brush. Nobody is telling you that you *must* like the prequels, or that your opinion *must* agree with the rest of ours. What we *are* trying to get across to you and others who share your opinion (they know who they are) is that you can actually discuss these things without resorting to childish, overblown hyperbole such as "childhood rapings." THAT is the reason that the "fanboy" label gets thrown around, not because you disagree with our opinions. You're free to put on your best Comic Book Guy face and make declarations about the "Worst. ______ Ever." but you should expect to be treated as such. Stupid overreactions like "Raped Childhoods" are a large part of why SF fans get looked down on.

That, and Trekkies.

The problem with this is that I'm not the one who used the "rape" phrase at all and have actually said (twice) immediately above that doing so is lame. Indeed, the irony is that I was addressing someone who was engaging in the very same behavior your post is meant to decry. How is calling someone a "moron" and then attempting to seize some type of moral high-ground by claiming moral offense at the use of the word "rape" any better than someone using the infamous rape phase? I'm really at a loss to explain your post since I really don't recall "resorting to childish, overblown hyperbole such as 'childhood rapings.'" Seriously, what are you talking about?

Anyways, I saw the movie. I liked it a lot. Though, we were surrounded by about ten f'ing punk kids from the local university (freshmen, by the look of them) and I had to turn around and threaten bodily harm in my old fogey way to get them to shut the hell up when they were still laughing and commenting (very loudly) halfway through the yellow crawl. One of them thought it would be hilarious to yell "Shut up" at everyone who cheered when "Star Wars" blazed on the screen (no, I wasn't one of those cheering). I almost snapped there. But when they continued, I finally just turned around and pulled an Agent ONE. Suprisingly, they shut up after that except for when they laughed heartily and forcedly whenever children were either killed, or their killing was alluded to. I kid you not. Our latest generation is broken.

So, anyways, I liked it. The acting wasn't as bad as reported. The wookie scream was inaudbile (not even sure I heard it and definitely would not have if I hadn't been tipped off). I didn't think Portman was that wooden at all, and all the "lame" lines of dailogue (with a few exceptions) didn't sound nearly as lame as I feared they would.

So, what else? Oh, Vader's hands looked too small.

H

Edited May 21, 2005 by Hurin

[Hurin]

It exhibits all of the weaknesses of the previous films: gaudy CG, battles that lack tactical flow, tension destroying slapstick in inappropriate moments, sappy love lines, poor acting, old people doing things they shouldn't be doing and looking silly doing them.  It's a prequel film.  If you're looking somehow for Lucas to return to the old movies' mood, pacing, atmosphere, and manner of storytelling... you're going to be dissapointed.

Ya know, this (in bold above) was my biggest gripe with Lucas ever since Jedi, and it had gotten progressively worse in each film since. But I think one of the reasons I enjoyed Sith so much was because this is dialed way back in both quanity and degree. . . almost to pre-Jedi levels.

[phatslappy]

It exhibits all of the weaknesses of the previous films: gaudy CG, battles that lack tactical flow, tension destroying slapstick in inappropriate moments, sappy love lines, poor acting, old people doing things they shouldn't be doing and looking silly doing them.  It's a prequel film.  If you're looking somehow for Lucas to return to the old movies' mood, pacing, atmosphere, and manner of storytelling... you're going to be dissapointed.

Ya know, this (in bold above) was my biggest gripe with Lucas ever since Jedi, and it had gotten progressively worse in each film since. But I think one of the reasons I enjoyed Sith so much was because this is dialed way back in both quanity and degree. . . almost to pre-Jedi levels.

I felt that way too. Liked this one much much better than the previous 2. But it wasn't just that. This movie was much more serious, and with all the good fight scenes and the whole betrayal of the jedis, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I only knew the idea of what was supposed to happen, and it didn't happen the way I had envisioned. I think because the PG-13 rating it got helped because it was more focused on telling the story (and there was a lot to tell) instead of entertaining some kids.

[bsu legato]

The problem with this is that I'm not the one who used the "rape" phrase at all and have actually said (twice) immediately above that doing so is lame.  Indeed, the irony is that I was addressing someone who was engaging in the very same behavior your post is meant to decry.  How is calling someone a "moron" and then attempting to seize some type of moral high-ground by claiming moral offense at the use of the word "rape" any better than someone using the infamous rape phase?  I'm really at a loss to explain your post since I really don't recall "resorting to childish, overblown hyperbole such as 'childhood rapings.'"  Seriously, what are you talking about?

I didn't specifically say that you resorted to that lame-ass phrase, that was more of a generalization aimed at the general "tiny hands brigade." However you did begin to defend that term a few posts before mine, which as you yourself described as pedantic. I should have phrased my ranting a bit differently so that you wouldn't feel singled out by my criticism, so in that regard I'll apologize. As for the rest, Duke speaks for only himself, and I wouldn't presume to speak for him as well. But you have to admit that for somebody to write off seeing the movie after the single luke-warm review (up to that point) in this thread is questionable to say the least. Its as if somebody was just waiting for an excuse to say "Nuh-uh, ain't gonna see it."

Anyways, I saw the movie.  I liked it a lot.  Though, we were surrounded by about ten f'ing punk kids from the local university (freshmen, by the look of them) and I had to turn around and threaten bodily harm in my old fogey way to get them to shut the hell up when they were still laughing and commenting (very loudly) halfway through the yellow crawl.  One of them thought it would be hilarious to yell "Shut up" at everyone who cheered when "Star Wars" blazed on the screen (no, I wasn't one of those cheering).  I almost snapped there.  But when they continued, I finally just turned around and pulled an Agent ONE.  Suprisingly, they shut up after that except for when they laughed heartily and forcedly whenever children were either killed, or their killing was alluded to.  I kid you not.  Our latest generation is broken.

That hardly surprises me. But we could devote an entire other thread to the sorry state of the average cinema atendee. In short, we agree that they're largely stupid mouth-breathers.

So, anyways, I liked it.  The acting wasn't as bad as reported.  The wookie scream was inaudbile (not even sure I heard it and definitely would not have if I hadn't been tipped off).  I didn't think Portman was that wooden at all, and all the "lame" lines of dailogue (with a few exceptions) didn't sound nearly as lame as I feared they would.

So, what else?  Oh, Vader's hands looked too small.

Portman was unarguably the weakest link, bar none. But that's what we've pretty much come to expect from her anyway. And am I a bad person for thinking that she was attractive when she was sobbing?

Oh, and Grevious would have looked better if he'd been done in stop-motion.

Edited May 21, 2005 by bsu legato

[cwmodels]

I thought this Star Wars Movie had some really good parts, some really bad parts, and the pacing was uneven. But overall, it is better then the previous 2 installments.

The BAD

Poor handling of Natalie Portman's character. It's only purpose was to give a reason for Anakin's fall and giving birth to the twins. It's bad when you one of your main/important character from the previous films is reduced to a plot device.

No Chemistry between Hayden Christensen and Natalie Portman. Their relationship was unbelievable and the dialogues between them were awful.

Hayden Christensen's acting is just as wooden as seen in "Attack of the Clones". No real emotions to the way he delivered his dialogues.

Key points in the story were handled poorly. The turning of Anakin and the Death of Padme were very weak. No real emotion in both scene.

General Grievous was weak as a major villain (almost silly in some aspects) for the first half of the film.

Major villains like Count Dooku and General Grievous both got killed way too easily.

All the Jedi master were killed way too easily by Clone Troopers. The scenes generated no emotions.

A lot of the dialogues could have been written or delivered better.

Samuel L. Jackson 's acting was BAD.

The voices for all the Battle Droids...BAD!

Movie still left plenty of plot holes that ties into the original trilogy. Obi-Wan not recognizing R2D2 and C3PO. Uncle Owen not remembering C3PO (he owned C3PO for about 10 according to "Attack of the Clones"). Leia talking to Luke about the memories of her mother as being very beautiful but sad in Return of the Jedi.

The UNEVEN

Palpatine's character is played way-too-over-the-top sometimes. Only a few scenes retained the original subtle sly and deceptiveness of the character from "Return of the Jedi".

Poor pacing for some of the action scenes. The Space battle in the beginning and the final dual with Obi-Wan & Anakin were drawn out a little too long. The battle on the Wookie planet and dual with Count Dooku were too short.

Obi-One was knocked out in minutes fighting Count Dooku, but was able to beat Anakin who were able beat Count Duku on his own?

All the major fight scenes concludes too abruptly. None of it felt like they achieved a real climax.

The raibowed-colored lizard Obi-Wan rode on. It felt very out of place in that sequence.

The way it's played in "Revenge of the Sith", Darth Vader should be Emperor Palpatine's number 1 in charge. But in "A New Hope" he is under Grand Moff Tarkin. The movie should have addressed that better.

Showing the Death Star's frame under construction at the end of the movie was rather unnecessary.

The GOOD

The second half of the movie is better than the first half. It's better to have a film suck in the beginning and get better later then good in the beginning and suck in the end.

Ewan McGregor's acting is the best part of the movie. There were scenes that could have easily played out very flat (or even badly) but his acting was able to make it better and hold your attention to it.

Fight with Yoda and Palpatine. Not the greatest fight scene but at least it gave the fans what they wanted to see. Despite the fact that you knew Yoda was going to lose, the sequence did make you hope that he could somehow win. That aspect was captured very well.

The final dual with Obi-Wan and Anakin. Once again Ewan McGregor's acting carried the whole sequence. He played it so you did feel Sorry for Obi-Wan after he beat Anakin. It could have been"YEAH! I finally got him!" but instead it was portrayed correctly as a tragic scene. Obi-Wan was in pain over the loss of Anakin. The emotion of the scene was done right!

Over all, not bad but could have been better in many ways. May go again to see how the movie will hold up after a second viewing.

[phoenix01]

Good grief. What is the deal here? As Hurin pointed out, rape has more than one meaning. If it makes you all feel better, Lucas "violated my childhood memories." There, are we all happy?

This is why I hate Star Wars. Plastic-lightsaber-wielding, Yoda-quoting, Jedi-wannabes who can't get up off the floor from bowing at the altar of Lucas long enough to see that what they are worshipping is so much celluloid poo. They've become worse than the forty-five-year-old, living-in-the-basement-of-his-parent's-house, speaking-fluent-Klingon, dressing-up-as-Captain-Kirk-on-the-weekends Trekkies.

Calling people morons because they don't agree with you is pretty lame. If this is what this place has come to then I don't want to be here.

[Duke Togo]

I thought this Star Wars Movie had some really good parts, some really bad parts, and the pacing was uneven. But overall, it is better then the previous 2 installments.

I don't quite know where to start here. Ok, let's see...

You can't blame Christensen for Portman's shitty performance. He portrayed plenty of emotion in the movie, its just some of the scenes with Portman, her mailed in performance clearly has an impact on the entire scene.

I don't see any plot holes with Obi Wan and the droids. If anything, Guiness comes off as knowing all, and telling very little. This is without him knowing the real truth to begin with. Go back and watch those scenes now, it definitely comes across as if he is holding back this great secret. And how does Uncle Owen get pulled into this? How many protocol droids look like C-3PO? I mean, in that time period they all do, we've seen countless numbers of them in the Star Wars saga. And you have issue with a droid that was in his presence 20 years before for a brief period of time, that looks like thousands of other droids? And Leia's mother, who is to say who she is remembing there, it may be the Queen of Alderaan. Plus, she is a Force adept, she very well may have had visions of her mother.

I find it funny you rip Palpatine, when he is the one character that people who have bashed Sith actually think was great.

What does Obi Wan getting knocked out after be thrown into a wall have to do with him being able to defeat Anakin? Your reasoning is silly. Does being able to take a blow to your head against a metal wall after being thrown what, 50 to 100 feet, have anything to do with your ability to use the Force or a lightsaber?

As for Tarkin, Vader, and the Emperor, I don't think its much of a secret that Vader became almost useless to the Emperor after the damage he received during the fight with Obi Wan. Once Luke's presence became known, the Emperor hoped to have Luke replace Vader.

Edited May 21, 2005 by Duke Togo

[Duke Togo]

If this is what this place has come to then I don't want to be here.

Don't let the door hit you on your way out, fanboy.

[Roy Focker]

I pretty much agree with nearly everything CWModels says. Do you want my baby?

This is why I hate Star Wars. Plastic-lightsaber-wielding, Yoda-quoting, Jedi-wannabes who can't get up off the floor from bowing at the altar of Lucas long enough to see that what they are worshipping is so much celluloid poo. They've become worse than the forty-five-year-old, living-in-the-basement-of-his-parent's-house, speaking-fluent-Klingon, dressing-up-as-Captain-Kirk-on-the-weekends Trekkies

LOL. You're some what right. I get the feeling from reviewing Star Wars forums not just topics here that Lucas can do no wrong. Every Star Wars movie, novel, etc is good and if you say they aren't your not a fan. If you don't agree with the popular thought your not a fan. I love Star Wars but I know what sucks when I see it and we know that my opinions are facts.

[Duke Togo]

This is why I hate Star Wars. Plastic-lightsaber-wielding, Yoda-quoting, Jedi-wannabes who can't get up off the floor from bowing at the altar of Lucas long enough to see that what they are worshipping is so much celluloid poo. They've become worse than the forty-five-year-old, living-in-the-basement-of-his-parent's-house, speaking-fluent-Klingon, dressing-up-as-Captain-Kirk-on-the-weekends Trekkies

LOL. You're some what right.

No he's not. He's EXACTLY what he is complaining about, except he hates Lucas for "raping his childhood". The "raping my childhood" fans are worse than the ones who dress up and bring lightsabers to the movies with them. They think Lucas, or Star Wars, or somebody owes them something for being a fan. When they don't get what they want, they bitch bitch bitch about how much everything sucks, and how bad Lucas is, and how every so called "apologist" has their faces buried in Lucas' ass.

Its a frigging movie, grow up and get a life.

[GRAND CANNON]

When they don't get what they want, they bitch bitch bitch about how much everything sucks, ....

Sound like us Red Sox fans......

[Duke Togo]

When they don't get what they want, they bitch bitch bitch about how much everything sucks, ....

Sound like us Red Sox fans......

Except when Red Sox fans get what they want, they still bitch bitch bitch about it.

[bsu legato]

This is why I hate Star Wars. Plastic-lightsaber-wielding, Yoda-quoting, Jedi-wannabes who can't get up off the floor from bowing at the altar of Lucas long enough to see that what they are worshipping is so much celluloid poo. They've become worse than the forty-five-year-old, living-in-the-basement-of-his-parent's-house, speaking-fluent-Klingon, dressing-up-as-Captain-Kirk-on-the-weekends Trekkies

LOL.  You're some what right.

No he's not. He's EXACTLY what he is complaining about, except he hates Lucas for "raping his childhood". The "raping my childhood" fans are worse than the ones who dress up and bring lightsabers to the movies with them. They think Lucas, or Star Wars, or somebody owes them something for being a fan. When they don't get what they want, they bitch bitch bitch about how much everything sucks, and how bad Lucas is, and how every so called "apologist" has their faces buried in Lucas' ass.

Its a frigging movie, grow up and get a life.

Forget Phantom Menace. Star Wars fans are the worst thing to happen to Star Wars.

[GRAND CANNON]

When they don't get what they want, they bitch bitch bitch about how much everything sucks, ....

Sound like us Red Sox fans......

Except when Red Sox fans get what they want, they still bitch bitch bitch about it.

Yeah, so? What of it?

Wouldn't have it any other way!

[Duke Togo]

Forget Phantom Menace. Star Wars fans are the worst thing to happen to Star Wars.

Holy shite, I completely agree with you again.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

Obi-One was knocked out in minutes fighting Count Dooku, but was able to beat Anakin who were able beat Count Duku on his own?

I can only explain it as Obi and Anakin being quite even at the last fight. It was Anakin's overconfidence that cause him to lose (i.e. attacking with his fancy jump from low ground in order to prove Obi's 'don't do it!' wrong).

As for him smacking Dooku, its quite possible that Palps was f*cking around in the background like a good Sith should.

[kensei]

Mildly entertaining for some parts, but most of the parts there was some really bad acting. Worth my $10 I guesss, but not the 1 hour wait.

[Hurin]

However you did begin to defend that term a few posts before mine, which as you yourself described as pedantic.

I would never defend that phrase. It's silly and (like calling someone a fan boy and/or dismissing them as being some type of "bad fan") serves as a ploy to avoid actually making a cogen argument. However, I did point out that the phrase is not insulting or offensive. It's just stupid.

I should have phrased my ranting a bit differently so that you wouldn't feel singled out by my criticism, so in that regard I'll apologize.

It's coolio. Thanks man. I always appreciate what you have to say, even when I disagree.

[Hurin]

They think Lucas, or Star Wars, or somebody owes them something for being a fan. When they don't get what they want, they bitch bitch bitch about how much everything sucks, and how bad Lucas is, and how every so called "apologist" has their faces buried in Lucas' ass.

Okay Togo. I want you to really, really consider this: A lot of Star Wars fans don't feel they are "owed" anything. They just simply don't like the first two prequels. Is that just not possible in your world? Do they have to be "Fan Boys" to think the way they do? Is that the only possible way they can disagree with you? If I think Lucas changed his cinematic sensibility and dramatically changed the tone of his later films, do I have to be some over-zealous fan to think that?

This idea that nobody can dislike the new movies legitimately and that all dislike of them must be rooted in nerdy fan-boy-ness is just. . . well. . . sad. Especially because --as I've said before and as is becoming more and more apparent the more I see the (ostensibly less fanatical) "prequel defenders" post-- you guys are just as knowledgable (if not moreso) about Star Wars than the Fan Boys you decry. You're just as big a fans (if not moreso). But somehow, you latched onto this "anti-fan" line of argument as a "catch-all" argument against anyone who dares to criticize, no matter how legitimately.

You guys need to just stop pretending that you're "above it all" and somehow superior to the fans with which you disagree.

Its a frigging movie, grow up and get a life.

Growing up and getting a life to Togo = Debating (at length)what "Restoring balance to the force" means.

Not being grown up and having no life = Debating whether Lucas has lost his touch.

That's a really interesting way of looking at things. Face it. Even though you like to pretend to be somehow superior, you're a Star Wars fan just like the rest of us. Just a less discerning one.

I will say this though. Anyone who hated RotS was probably going in there wanting to hate it. It was, by and large, a good Star Wars movie.

H

[Slugworth]

Wow, its geting bloody in this thread.

About the movie this thread is about...

I saw this movie and thought it was the best of the prequels, but not nearly as good as the originals.

Why oh why did Lucas put all the silly slapstick droid antics in the beginning? It had no place in this movie. The rest was so serious. What's up with the voices for the enemy battle droids, anyway? They sounded cheesier than the already bad ones from Episodes 1 and 2.

Natalie Portman is a really good actress, but you'd never know it from this performance. Her dialog and acting was quite awful. I don't care to know about how they are going do decorate the baby room in a Star Wars film. Why is he still being called Annie? He's supposed to be a kick ass Jedi Knight! Damn...

Hayden Christensen's performance wasn't much better. Any time he smiled, it just looked so artificial. When someone is acting, it isn't supposed to look they are acting.

All the political intrigue was a joke. The Jedi pretty much deserve what they got for how they chose do deal with Anakin and Palpatine. The Jedi bungled things pretty good for themselves.

Grevious was a cartoon. He didn't even fit with the rest of the characters. His movements were bazarre and distracted me from what he was saying. He was pretty much a non-issue as far as the story goes. Same goes for Count Dooku, he was hardly in the movie.

Isn't Yoda supposed to be a badass? He never won a fight in this whole trilogy. Mace Windu was better against Palpatine than Yoda was (That is, before Anakin showed up. After that, Palpatine used Mace to manipulate Anakin).

The romance between Anakin and Padme was never convincing at all in Episode 2, so Anakin's main reason for turning to the dark side was also not believable to me.

Where did all of R2-D2's abilities go in Episodes 4, 5, and 6?

Ian Mcdiarmid as Palpatine was great in this, though. All of his lines were delivered nicely. Hell, he could say, "Pass the salt." and it would sound menacing.

Ewan McGregor was good too as Obi-Wan. Too bad the rest weren't as good as him.

The ending was rushed as Lucas frantically tried to tie up any loose ends he could think of.

The effects were at times awesome, then at other times, terrible. The crash landing at the beginning was great. But the clone soldiers should have kept their helmets on at all times. It was so obvious that they were digital doubles when their helmets were removed.

I really wanted to like this movie. I read all the reviews. It received over 80% at rottentomatoes.com. I'm a huge fan of the original trilogy (in their original form, too). Episodes 1 and 2 blew chunks.

There's a lot more I didn't like, but this is already a long post.

[Duke Togo]

Hey, let's not forget how God awful Mark Hamill was in the original trilogy, especially in Jedi. His performance in Jedi is probably one of the all time great wooden performances ever. Harrison Ford mailed in that movie, too.

Who whines more... Luke in ANH or Anakin in AoTC?

[Slugworth]

Anakin in Episode 2.

Luke kills a rancor, kicks ass all over the place and saves everyone at Jabba's palace, goes to Dagobah and pay his final respects to Yoda. Then, continues his ass kicking rampage on Endor fighting scout soldiers on speeder bikes, then turns himself in to the Empire and kicks Vader's ass at the end.

I think Luke actually whined more in Empire Strikes Back, honestly.

[Warmaker]

Luke I believe whines more in A New Hope alone

By the way, a present to my fellow Star Wars fans over here. However, proceed with caution!!!

[Hurin]

The effects were at times awesome, then at other times, terrible. The crash landing at the beginning was great. But the clone soldiers should have kept their helmets on at all times. It was so obvious that they were digital doubles when their helmets were removed.

For the life of me, I don't know what you guys are talking about here. I had read about how bad the clone troopers looked with their helmets off, so I was actually looking for it. . . and they all looked fine to me.

[Max Jenius]

Togo, take it down a notch man. Just one. Most of your posts are fine, but some are just outright askin for trouble.

[Duke Togo]

Togo, take it down a notch man. Just one. Most of your posts are fine, but some are just outright askin for trouble.

Forget it, he's rolling

[GreenGuy42]

Obi-One was knocked out in minutes fighting Count Dooku, but was able to beat Anakin who were able beat Count Duku on his own?

I can only explain it as Obi and Anakin being quite even at the last fight. It was Anakin's overconfidence that cause him to lose (i.e. attacking with his fancy jump from low ground in order to prove Obi's 'don't do it!' wrong).

As for him smacking Dooku, its quite possible that Palps was f*cking around in the background like a good Sith should.

The novel was very thorough with that explaination...

Dooku was holding back... Palpatine told him to lose, and that he'd provide him with amnesty... If he had been at the top of his game, Anakin may have very well lost another arm.

Didn't work out.

[MSW]

Just saw it...it was okay, some parts were better then episodes 1 and 2...and some parts were just as bad...it definetly could have undergone a rewrite or two to streamline some of the fractured story structure, get rid or combine some of the characters/scenes...overall I think it was the best of the prequels..but still short of the OT.

[Warmaker]

Obi-One was knocked out in minutes fighting Count Dooku, but was able to beat Anakin who were able beat Count Duku on his own?

I can only explain it as Obi and Anakin being quite even at the last fight. It was Anakin's overconfidence that cause him to lose (i.e. attacking with his fancy jump from low ground in order to prove Obi's 'don't do it!' wrong).

As for him smacking Dooku, its quite possible that Palps was f*cking around in the background like a good Sith should.

The novel was very thorough with that explaination...

Dooku was holding back... Palpatine told him to lose, and that he'd provide him with amnesty... If he had been at the top of his game, Anakin may have very well lost another arm.

Didn't work out.

Treachery and betrayal, as we all know, are true markings of a Sith!

[Slugworth]

This is another problem I've had with the prequel trilogy. All this extra information that is from other sources and not the films. I shouldn't have to watch a bunch of cartoons or read any books to find out more about the story. I saw one of the cartoons where Mace Windu took out an entire clone army (looked like over a thousand troops) by himself!! Why couldn't he take out Palpatine? It should all be in the film, not all this extraneous stuff.

[HWR MKII]

You have to admit that lucas did cross that line between EP2 and 3 with alot of character info. Too much happens in the books and clone wars cartoon that isnt expl,ained in the movie.

[EXO]

first of all they were clones not sith, second of all he could have taken Palpatine. I understand if you had problems with it, I'm not gonna defend every instance anyone brought up, I just thought those 2 were too obvious to pass up.

[Sundown]

Hey, let's not forget how God awful Mark Hamill was in the original trilogy, especially in Jedi. His performance in Jedi is probably one of the all time great wooden performances ever. Harrison Ford mailed in that movie, too.

Who whines more... Luke in ANH or Anakin in AoTC?

Anakin by a long, long shot.

At any rate, Ford mailing it in is more entertaining and convincing than most of the actors giving it a real shot in the PT.

Sure, Hamill wasn't awesome... but he did have to act nearly an ENTIRE MOVE (the one considered best by most SW fans) opposite a prop robot and a muppet. Not everyone can pull that off with any degree of believability.

-Al