Fountain of Youth

[Solscud007]

Rather interesting find thanks to some clever transformer fans.

http://www.thetf.net/forum_posts-TID-13204-PN-1.htm

WARNING: If you try this, you need to read the WHOLE thread. VERY positive results. but also somewhat serious hazards if not taken seriously and with caution.

[jedimech]

Thanks for the info!!

[miriya]

Rather interesting find thanks to some clever transformer fans.

http://www.thetf.net/forum_posts-TID-13204-PN-1.htm

WARNING: If you try this, you need to read the WHOLE thread. VERY positive results. but also somewhat serious hazards if not taken seriously and with caution.

Awesome thread! That is a brilliant idea and it looks like they got fantastic results. Thanks for sharing!

[Agent-GHQ]

Now its time to shop for the discolored and rusty vintage toys!

[ntsan]

Excellent find!

[big F]

Think I still have some in the cupboard, I certainly have glass jars and plenty of yellow 1/55 bits.

I will post my findings here.

[nightmareB4macross]

Nick,

Awesome find!!! Now if only someone could get this topic pinned that would make it perfect.

[big F]

Well I got some 6% as this was the strongest the chemists had.They used to sell 20% and 30% but the suppliers dont stock it anymore.

Just waiting for the sunlight as its dark here now and I will be putting my test subjects in to see what happens.

If it works for me I have several TF's and loads of 1/55 Valk parts that will get thrown in. Then I guess it's off to reprolables for some new stickers.

More news tomorrow.

[promethuem5]

Amazing... I will be trying this for sure.

[sqidd]

What is H2O2? (Yes I know its Hydrogen and Oxygen)

[QuinJester]

What is H2O2? (Yes I know its Hydrogen and Oxygen)

Hydrogen Peroxide. In this case, they aren't using normal grocery store stuff, either, but 30-35% solution, which you can only get from specialty stores in most cases, or online in large quantities, and will melt your lungs if you breathe its fumes. Do not try this without adequate ventilation and preferably a breathing aparatus of some kind.

Edited December 9, 2008 by QuinJester

[ff95gj]

May I ask if the painting would be affected?

I saw the pics, but as they were old toys, I am unsure if the chipping is owing to H2O2 or old damage.

[SilentCrossHairs]

Ahhhh. .. I don't think its worth it really. The yellowing adds a vintage look to it. It is a testament to its time. Celebrate it

My little hole in the net

[mr.chogokin]

1) Hydrogen Peroxide is acid right?

2) What the diluted H2O2 is doing is basically eat/wash away the top most surface area of plastic that is exposed to air, right?

3) Which leads to... shrinkage! Not only will the toy yellow faster after a H2O2 bath, too many dips will shrink it?

4) It also make the plastic brittle right?

Please confirm these questions as I'm no chemist, but I know enough that Hydrogen Peroxide is commonly used as an extreme cleaning agent, but was also used by the Russians as torpedo propellant... I don't want my toys to go like the Kursk.

[eugimon]

1) Hydrogen Peroxide is acid right?

2) What the diluted H2O2 is doing is basically eat/wash away the top most surface area of plastic that is exposed to air, right?

3) Which leads to... shrinkage! Not only will the toy yellow faster after a H2O2 bath, too many dips will shrink it?

4) It also make the plastic brittle right?

Please confirm these questions as I'm no chemist, but I know enough that Hydrogen Peroxide is commonly used as an extreme cleaning agent, but was also used by the Russians as torpedo propellant... I don't want my toys to go like the Kursk.

1. a weak acid, but yes an acid.

2. pretty much, it's bleaching the surface, The free oxygen molecule is bonding to the carbon in the plastic, breaking it off from the rest of the chain. Basically chewing off the first visible layer of plastic.

3. I don't know about shrinking but if the H2O2 is breaking down some of the anti UV chemicals mixed in with the plastic, then yes, it will now yellow at a faster rate than before. The H2O2 may have also left the surface of the plastic pock marked with microscopic pits from the process, all this increased surface area will help the natural oxidation process along... more yellowing.

4. It really depends on the particular chemistry of the plastic but it's a possibility, sure.

Edited December 9, 2008 by eugimon

[David Hingtgen]

No, I get the impression from the thread that it's basically a powerful anti-oxidant, and is "un-oxidizing" the bromine in the plastic. It's not eating away the outer layer of plastic, it's sucking the oxygen out of it. If it ate away the outer layer, then the fine texture of the old keyboard keys would have been lost--and they look fine.

[eugimon]

No, I get the impression from the thread that it's basically a powerful anti-oxidant, and is "un-oxidizing" the bromine in the plastic. It's not eating away the outer layer of plastic, it's sucking the oxygen out of it. If it ate away the outer layer, then the fine texture of the old keyboard keys would have been lost--and they look fine.

No, hydrogen peroxide is a strong oxidizing agent... one of the strongest, it's bleaching the plastic. H202 wants to break down into Water and Oxygen... it doesn't want to absorb oxygen

About the keyboard, not really. since the acid is working on all surfaces equally the fine texture on the keyboard would be reduced equally but not necessarily to the point where the texture is worn off... remember this is a relatively mild concentration of a relatively mild acid.

Edited December 9, 2008 by eugimon

[mr.chogokin]

Recommended reading for those in doubt:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide

I guess I'll let my toys age with mirth and laughter in lieu of H2O2's miracle.

[eugimon]

Recommended reading for those in doubt:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide

I guess I'll let my toys age with mirth and laughter in lieu of H2O2's miracle.

yeah, sorry guys, this is really just a variation on bleaching plastic. It's much more mild and not as likely to turn your plastic into soup but it's still just bleaching.

[mr.chogokin]

S'okay, I got tons of yellowed toys that I would like to see with a happy, new year sheen. I just love them too much to shorten their lives.

[promethuem5]

yeah, sorry guys, this is really just a variation on bleaching plastic. It's much more mild and not as likely to turn your plastic into soup but it's still just bleaching.

Well, based on the original article, he claims to see no difference in the condition of the plastics, so I think provided the quality change of the plastic is negligible, having a way to bleach the plastic to remove yellowing in extreme cases is worth it. I've got a few very expensive items that could benefit from this (instead of the repainting I was planning on doing, which is a pain), and I'll certainly be looking to this technique after I try it on something cheaper first.

[mr.chogokin]

What I would like to know is if it'll yellow again after the initial dip... will it take months? / 1 year later? / or many years later?

If the result is the latter, this could be worthwhile after all! Please let us know how it goes!

[big F]

Well I have a jar full of 1/55 parts as we speak. After a few hours I have noticed a tiny change, but Im sure that they will need a lot longer as its only 6% and although it's on a south facing window it is not overly sunny in the U.K today.

About 2 years ago I sanded down some 1/55 parts that were hideously yellowed. These went into my Milia custom. On the trailing edge of the chest plate I sanded it back to white and painted the rest of the part red. the white edge is visible when you look down on the figure from above and matches in with the other white parts. I have noticed that it is starting to yellow again after only 2 years. Its kept out of direct sunlight in a shaded display cabinet. So it's safe to say IMHO that they will eventually yellow again just how quick depends on the environment is suppose.

[EXO]

I won't be buying minty white toys from eBay for a while...

especially from singapore and great britain...

[Dangard Ace]

I won't be buying minty white toys from eBay for a while...

especially from singapore and great britain...

What about from Solscud? lol

[EXO]

What about from Solscud? lol

Isn't Philadelphia in Singapore?

[eugimon]

Well, based on the original article, he claims to see no difference in the condition of the plastics, so I think provided the quality change of the plastic is negligible, having a way to bleach the plastic to remove yellowing in extreme cases is worth it. I've got a few very expensive items that could benefit from this (instead of the repainting I was planning on doing, which is a pain), and I'll certainly be looking to this technique after I try it on something cheaper first.

Oh that's fine... I just wanted to clear up any doubts as to whether this was bleaching or some sort of magical restoration of the dyes in the plastic to their original state.

[Totoro242]

If this turns out to be true ( I personally think it needs more time to make sure there's no lasting effects) these guys deserve some huge-arse internet award of the year for discovering the "Chrysopoeian Enigma" of toy collecting.

[TheLoneWolf]

If this turns out to be true ( I personally think it needs more time to make sure there's no lasting effects) these guys deserve some huge-arse internet award of the year for discovering the "Chrysopoeian Enigma" of toy collecting.

Those TF guys didn't discover anything. They just republished another groups' work without giving any credit.

I also agree that plastics subjected to this process will, most likely, recover their yellowing in a year or two.

[do not disturb]

lego collectors use oxyclean to wash the white bricks.

some swear by it but i've never tried it.

[eugimon]

oxyclean, hydrogen peroxide, bleach, they all work the same way, they have an unstable molecule that wants to shed itself an oxygen molecule. Plastics are made up of long chains of hydrogen and carbon. Carbon wants to pick up an oxygen molecule but in doing so it pops off from the hydrogen chain... so basically the layer of plastic exposed to the solution will dissolve and if you eat away enough you get down to virgin un-yellowed plastic.

Since yellowing is basically the discoloration of the dye mixed in with plastic, there's no way to undo damage done to it, since it's a chemical process.

[Fly4victory]

Since yellowing is basically the discoloration of the dye mixed in with plastic, there's no way to undo damage done to it, since it's a chemical process.

Guess the real test is put a part in the H202 and see if it dissolves like a tooth does in Coke.

[eugimon]

Guess the real test is put a part in the H202 and see if it dissolves like a tooth does in Coke.

seriously guys, just try to remember high school chemistry and go read the wiki page on hydrogen peroxide. While hydrogen peroxide is the fuel in rocket packs, this isn't rocket science.

[wolfx]

Interesting read nonetheless. The plastic parts in the bubbly solution reminds me of soda.

As for me, I only know hydrogen peroxide is used as a bleaching compound found in hair dyes.

[big F]

After nearly 24hours of not too sunny daylight and cold night it has made a bit of a difference. Its shaping up to be a cloudless and therefore sunny day so they are back on the window sill and we will see how it goes.