VA-14

[Exsedol]

Exsedol

Throughout the 16 pages of color squadron colors there are numerous branches of the UN Forces shown to have variable fighters. They have branches for the UN Navy, UNS Air Force and UNS Marines. You'll note the Macross Compendium specifically designates the various variable fighters with belonging to various branches. It's a nice added touch of detail.

Yes, I love that extra detail. It adds alot of meat to the macross universe

[sketchley]

I think maybe I'll look into the PC version, then; maybe I can find an older version at a Half-Priced Books, and only the newest Mac version is a Universal Binary. Have you used different software versions? Are there big changes in CS3?

OT rant, why do companies charge so much for software? People complain that the PS3 was too much when they were charging $600 for it, but I noticed that Photoshop CS3 Standard is $650, and the Creative Suite 3 Master Edition is $2500. I don't know about you, but if I'm paying more for software than for the hardware I'm running it on, it better cure cancer or something. Seriously, maybe people would pirate less software if the companies making it charged a fair price for it. That's one of the reasons my Windows computer is still running XP, but I plan picking up Leopard for my MacBook on Friday.

If I'm not mistaken, Adobe uses it's own software language when running it's graphics programmes (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc.). It is one of the reasons why the program takes so long to load. Aside from the already mentioned differences (or lack of them), I have heard that in general, Mac are much better suited for graphics in general. As I've only used Photoshop and Illustrator on PCs, I can't comment from first hand experience. However, if you do a google on how differently PCs and Macs display fonts, I think you'll get an idea of the difference.

Anyhow, it all boils down to your use of it. Are you a professional, or a guy having some fun with art. If it's the later, used (or old) software on a PC will more than suffice. I use PS7 on WinXP, and it more than meets my needs. In fact, the only drawback I am finding when using the software, is my PC running out of memory (this doesn't happen too often, as the majority of what I do is in monochrome.)

As for the purchasing price... if I'm not mistaken, Master Edition is for professionals, who are more than likely to recoupe the outlay within a few months. In this way, it's like the fully tricked out Pro Tools that you see Robert Rodreguez playing with in one of the making of on "Once Upon A Time In Mexico."

Also, costs are high because a) that's how much it costs to make them + a profit margin, and b) that's how much people are willing to pay for it. Photoshop is the standard, but there are similar programs out there for far less. I've even heard of an open source graphics program that has pretty much all of the same functions, and costs nothing. (Though user support most likely doesn't come with it...)

EDIT: GIMP. http://www.gimp.org/

Edited October 23, 2007 by sketchley

[Mr March]

mike

I use Photoshop CS V8.0. I have used other versions both older and newer, but as I'm not an advanced user, I can't really say much about the differences. I know starting with my version Photoshop was meant to merge with other creative software programs (hence the "CS") but the basic program is really good for my needs. I do coloring and I also do some digital photo editing on it. It's fantastic.

The cost for software like Photoshop is really high because they are both labor intensive and take a lot of time to program. Also, these software programs are generally designed for professional applications and Photoshop is the industry standard. Most often businesses are purchasing this software, not your average end user. And quite honestly, no one really needs it unless you're in the industry or you want to build a website

Nied

No, I won't be adding those. The translations are also something I rarely do, since I don't speak or read japanese. I generally only attempt them myself as a last resort and rely upon bits and pieces from the internet to help. It takes a lot of work for me to translate using the internet and search for useful information on foreign language websites using translation programs. Also, my japanese speaking roomate who was assisting me has moved out Basically, it's far too much work for very little useful information. My time is better spent elsewhere working on projects I can do effectively.

Exsedol

Indeedy! Just like my website

Edited October 23, 2007 by Mr March

[mikeszekely]

Well, I kind of gathered that the $2500 version wasn't aimed at general consumers, but $650 for CS3 Standard still seems high to me, as does $400 for Vista Ultimate, or $500 for Office Professional, or even $90 for Nero 8. If people charged what their software was actually worth, then maybe more people would buy it (compare Vista Ultimate's $400 price tag with Leopard's $130... even Vista Home Premium is around $240). I do tend to look for open source alternatives like OpenOffice.org, and while I'd heard of Gimp, I always thought it was Linux only. I checked the website, though, and sure enough, there's a Windows version. Maybe I'll check that out.

Thanks for the info, everybody!

[wwwmwww]

Here are some pictures of the VF-14. I don't think this is the VA-14 but I'm not 100% sure of the difference at the moment.

I.H.P had other pictures of their variable VF-14 up here at one time but this link is now dead.

http://member.nifty.ne.jp/musyuku/VF-14e.html

The waybackmachine doesn't work on this site either. If other's have the pictures that were up at that site I'd be interested in getting them.

Anyone ever see this I.H.P VF-14 kit for sale anywhere? I've personally never seen in on Yahoo Japan and that is saying something.

I hope these pics help,

Carl

Edited October 24, 2007 by wwwmwww

[Mr March]

Nice VF-14 model! I never knew such a model existed. Thanks for sharing.

The VA-14 has no line art and never appears animated. It's basically just "there" as a plot device UN Spacy variable fighter meant to be captured and redesigned by the Varauta (Protodeviln) so they have these purple Elgerzorene valkyries. It's really rather lame the various valkyrie designations weren't cleaned up post-Macross 7. I mean, as it is now, we have two Varauta variable fighters built from the VA-14, a design which we never officially see according to Kawamori and Co. Then to further make a mess, we have two different canon designs for the VF-14, the earlier of which we the audience are supposed to be forget we saw when it was animated for Macross 7. The powers that be say that's because the early VF-14 was only a rough concept when it was used in Macross 7 and Kawamori didn't officially finalize the VF-14 until later in the Macross M3 video game. So we're left with:

A finalized VF-14 from the Macross M3 video game that looks nothing like the Varauta mecha and has no connection to them...

A rough concept VF-14 that we're supposed to pretend doesn't really exist because Kawamori hadn't finalized the design (despite the fact it was animated anyway)...

A VA-14 written description which is not assigned any line art but would work well if assigned the rough concept VF-14 artwork, since the rough concept looks very much like the Varauta mecha that came later...

It's no wonder some fans have just applied the rough concept artwork to the VA-14 profile and called it done. What a mess!

[mikeszekely]

Nice VF-14 model! I never knew such a model existed. Thanks for sharing.

The VA-14 has no line art and never appears animated. It's basically just "there" as a plot device UN Spacy variable fighter meant to be captured and redesigned by the Varauta (Protodeviln) so they have these purple Elgerzorene valkyries. It's really rather lame the various valkyrie designations weren't cleaned up post-Macross 7. I mean, as it is now, we have two Varauta variable fighters built from the VA-14, a design which we never officially see according to Kawamori and Co. Then to further make a mess, we have two different canon designs for the VF-14, the earlier of which we the audience are supposed to be forget we saw when it was animated for Macross 7. The powers that be say that's because the early VF-14 was only a rough concept when it was used in Macross 7 and Kawamori didn't officially finalize the VF-14 until later in the Macross M3 video game. So we're left with:

A finalized VF-14 from the Macross M3 video game that looks nothing like the Varauta mecha and has no connection to them...

A rough concept VF-14 that we're supposed to pretend doesn't really exist because Kawamori hadn't finalized the design (despite the fact it was animated anyway)...

A VA-14 written description which is not assigned any line art but would work well if assigned the rough concept VF-14 artwork, since the rough concept looks very much like the Varauta mecha that came later...

It's no wonder some fans have just applied the rough concept artwork to the VA-14 profile and called it done. What a mess!

I agree that the the M3 VF-14 doesn't look like the Varauta mecha in Battroid mode, but I think the fighter mode looks more like an Elgerzorne than the rough VF-14 did.

And actually, if you read the Compendium carefully, the Elgerzorne is supposed to be build from the VF-14, and the Panzerzorne is built from the VA-14. I didn't think that the rough VF-14 design becoming a VA-14 was a fan creation, but an official retcon to explain the difference between the mecha in Spiritia Dreaming and the finalized VF-14 in M3.

Ironically, if you look at the Design Works book's entry for the VF-14, the rough VF-14 fighter and Battroid pics that are on mahq.net under the VA-14 entry aren't shown, but if you look carefully at the the rough sketches of the back of the Battroid, they'd be a match for the VA-14 Battroid. You can see the shoulders, the head lasers, and the chest cannon.

[Mr March]

Yeah, minor error. I figure I'm allowed, considering how lousy the whole situation is

When did the rough concept VF-14 become designated as the VA-14 in any official capacity? I'm not seeing that anywhere on the Compendium. It states the exact opposite.

[azrael]

When did the rough concept VF-14 become designated as the VA-14 in any official capacity? I'm not seeing that anywhere on the Compendium. It states the exact opposite.

I'm not sure. It probably started with RPG stats. It was noted that the VF-14 was the basis for the Az-130 but that was incorrect; it should have been the VA-14. So when that was corrected, we were left with a right sketch drawing that was noted as a VF-14. So when we got the note that the sketch was not the "true" VF-14, people then associated it with the VA-14. And then M3 came and the true VF-14 appeared and that kinda settled the old design in the VA-14 slot. But the problem is, it's not a VA-14, it's a VF-14. Which brings us to now.

[wwwmwww]

Could someone post a side by side pic of the rough concept VF-14 and the "true" VF-14 from M3? Not having M3 the video game I'm getting confused. Are the kits I posted pictures of above the rough concept VF-14 or the "true" VF-14?

Thanks,

Carl

[sketchley]

Either way, that's a really, really, really cool model of the VF-14 (VA-14?) I can really see the SR-71 influence in it, as well as the Fz-109.

[Mr March]

azrael

Yes, this is as I understand it. The rough concept has been moved to the VA-14 designation by fans, but it's not official. Officially, as far as the Macross Compendium is concerned, the VA-14 is pictureless and both VERSIONS of the VF-14 remain the VF-14. It sucks, but I'm certain that's at least correct with respect to canon.

wwwmwww

Sorry about that. I'm in the process of obtaining high resolution scans of the VF-14 rough concept, so I haven't been posting pictures. You know me, if I had the pics, I'd post 'em

For now, I'll use internet fodder to help you out visually. I'm at work so I can't uplaod them to my webspace and I don't want to hotlink images from ChrisG's excellent site (which has all of them if you want to see them at MAHQ (Macross Section)). No line art has been assigned to the VA-14 officially (at least as far as I know).

VF-14 Rough Concept (animated in Macross 7 PLUS Spiritia Dreaming)

VF-14 Finalized Design for Macross M3 video game

sketchley

I agree. I was surprised to see an actual model. The VF-14 (Macross 7 PLUS Version) is kinda obscure. But I really like it

Edited October 24, 2007 by Mr March

[azrael]

And for the sake of comparison (shamelessly borrowed courtesy of MAHQ),

Fz-109

Az-130

Again, the silhouettes of the VF-14(M3) and the Fz-109 are very similar, almost identical. This leads me to believe that the silhouettes of Az-130 and the VA-14 (also from the Compendium's description) would also share very similar qualities like the wings, the bulk, etc.

[Mr March]

I'm going to have to do a single picture comparison when I get my high resolution VF-14 (M7PLUS) scans. Just like I did with the YF-19, VF-19 Custom and VF-19F fighters. These will make great additions to the M3

I agree that the silhouettes of the Fz-109 and VF-14 (M3) are similar, but they are not identical, IMO. I think that aside from the prominent flare of the forward nose, the only thing these two share (comparitively speaking here) is a similar silhouette. The VF-14 (M7PLUS) on the other hand not only shares a similar silhouette, but far more closely shares all the proportions with the Fz-109 (ignoring the model interpretation, which while good, is not accurate to the line art).

Keeping in mind this is just MY take on the similarities...

The VF-14 (M7PLUS) and Fz-109 engine nacelles from front to back are definitely what I would label as nearly identical in size and shape and both with feature forward missile launchers, not like the longer narrower nacelles of the VF-14 (M3)

The VF-14 (M7PLUS) and Fz-109 cockpit is forward facing only with plates, not open and bubble shaped like the VF-14 (M3)

The VF-14 (M7PLUS) and Fz-109 forward nacelles tips are cone shaped and truncated, not long and narrow like the VF-14 (M3)

The VF-14 (M7PLUS) and Fz-109 forward nose is angled and wide, not sloped and pointed like the VF-14 (M3)

The VF-14 (M7PLUS) and Fz-109 central fuselage is nearly identical in shape and proportion attaching to the nacelles at the exact same forward and rearward points.

The far more similar Battroid mode between the VF-14 (M7PLUS) and Fz-109 is obvious, especially compared to the far different VF-14 (M3). Overall (Fighter AND Battroid mode), I'd say the Fz-109 is far more VF-14 (M7PLUS) than it is VF-14 (M3).

I'm very curious what the VA-14 would look like as well. It has to be a big heavy fighter like the Panzerzorene.

Edited October 24, 2007 by Mr March

[Sumdumgai]

The differences between the VF-14 (M7+) and the Fz-109 are like the differences between the various incarnations of the VF-19. Same basic features, very different details, but recognizably the same species of animal, if not the same breed.

[mikeszekely]

When did the rough concept VF-14 become designated as the VA-14 in any official capacity? I'm not seeing that anywhere on the Compendium. It states the exact opposite.

Ah, okay. I guess I was just under the influence of "teh internetz."

I guess I just liked that explanation because it gives us a reason why the M7 and M3 VF-14s are different.

Perhaps a variant, ala the VF-19A and VF-19F/S? Maybe the VF-14 in M3 wasn't up to spec for the Megaroad fleets, or vice versa. Or different customers... the Compendium listed both the UNAF and the UNS as customers for the VF-19; I've kind of thought that the UNAF would have bought more As, but with extra verniers and shorter wings, that the F/S types are more geared toward the UNS.

[Zinjo]

Pfft. easily explained...

the VF-14 in the early sketch is Block 1 and by M3 it is Block 6....

Wha? It worked for DYRL....

[Mr March]

Sumdumgai

I agree. The two craft look very much like variants of the same basic design. It'll be great to get some high resolution scans so I can make a profile for the VF-14 (M7PLUS). I'll do some comparison pictures as well.

mike

The whole thing is unnecessarily confusing, so none of us can be blamed for making mistakes about it. I have to write all this down just to keep it straight When I do build profiles for the two VF-14 mecha, I'm going to add clear and concise notes in the written text descriptions to help clarify the differences for fans. Plus, the color pictures will go a LONG way to helping the fans differentiate the two fighters and visualize the design lineages. I can't wait

Zinjoyable

I love it! If I could get away with it, I'd go with that explanation in a second. Simple is so sexah!

[Mr March]

I've been a really good little boy this past week and written about 10 pages of text description for future profiles. As a result, I slacked off yesterday and worked on some non-essential stuff. So here is another special color scheme; the VF-4 "VAT-127" Fighter

Tell me it looks sexy. Doesn't it look sexy? So very sexaaahhh

[Sumdumgai]

Now that VF-4 is the sexiest VF-4 I've ever seen. In fact it's one of the sexiest valks I've ever seen. Hot damn, I need a VF-4 in that scheme if Yamato makes the VF-4. Hell, I'll learn to repaint things just to have one of those! Nice work Mr March!

[wwwmwww]

Very nice... but I have a question.

It looks like a shadow of the wing but I thought you took all the shadows out.

Carl

[Mr March]

What's what?

*evil grin*

This is sure a weird situation. It seems Kawamori forgot the shadow too. The shadowless VF-4 is scanned from Shoji Kawamori Macross Design Works book as is (barring the modifications I had to make for the VAT-127 variant). Or at least, whoever made the shadowless VF-4 forgot the shadow. Kinda funny

Regardless, I've removed it on both the VAT-127 and "Nightmare" variant. Thanks for the catch

[Phyrox]

neeeevermind.

Not a fan of this desert/brown camo.

The VF-4 would look hot in that jagged-edged two-tone grey scheme that some F-14s and F-4s were painted up in.

In wavy brown camo though...I'm not diggin' it.

Edited October 25, 2007 by Phyrox

[Mr March]

Sumdumgai

See, I told ya it was sexy I like it because it smooths out the look of the VF-4. Fewer colors and a more complete scheme. It looks mean too

Phyrox

Well, to each his own. I think it's very distinctive, especially for the VF-4.

[Sumdumgai]

One of the other things I love about the VAT-127 scheme is that the nose is one uniform color. I hate when the nose-cone-ish area is different from the rest of the valkyrie, like on the Low Vis v2 (black nose-cone area). Also love that camo, it's not uniform, but very distinctive.

[mikeszekely]

The VAT-127 is the sexy, Mr March, but as I understand it, one of the reasons the VF-5000 was developed was because the UN was dissatisfied with the VF-4's atmospheric performance... so a desert camo, even a canon one, kinda seems silly. So, I'm going to say I like the Nightmare scheme better, but I think a desert camo VF-11 would kick ass.

[Awacs]

The VAT-127 is the sexy, Mr March, but as I understand it, one of the reasons the VF-5000 was developed was because the UN was dissatisfied with the VF-4's atmospheric performance... so a desert camo, even a canon one, kinda seems silly. So, I'm going to say I like the Nightmare scheme better, but I think a desert camo VF-11 would kick ass.

On the other hand, they wouldn't know that they were dissappointed with it's atmospherice performance unless they had enough hours of flying it in an atmosphere to find out how it performed. Given that it was the standard production VF for quite a while I can see a number of units that did mostly in-atmosphere operations being issued with it over the years. (If it's performance wasn't up to scratch I can also see them being very glad when they transitioned to the VF-5000.... :-) )

Karl

[sketchley]

Don't forget the role of the fighters that the paint scheme was applied to. See my translation of it at the bottom of page 3 in this topic.

[Mr March]

Sumdumgai

I find the nose color really depends upon the color scheme and what other colors/details are used. Some schemes can really look good with distinguished nose cones. The upcoming VF-11 VF-X Ravens colors cheme looks great with a beige nose and a low-vis grey hull. I also like Max and Milia's VF-1J colors with white nose cones.

However, the default hull colors of the VF-4 are just ugly as hell, IMO. There's too many of them and combined with all the different colored sections (like the off-white semi-recessed missiles, the red engine flow indicators, the yellow gun/access arrows, dark grey cockpit canopy rim, et cetera) it just looks too busy and messy. It was easy to find the motivation to make some custom colored VF-4 fighters

mike

I'm not really sure what the fictional reason was given for the move away from the VF-4. I doubt the VF-4 was a poor atmospheric fighter, just not as optimized as it was for space. Keep in mind that the desert camo is very theatre specific. They probably dressed not just the VF-4, but all variable fighters and all military ground hardware in that same scheme for all the units that were deployed in the sandy theatre of operations.

As for the VF-5000 versus the VF-4, I do know this much; there was a clear shift in UN Forces policy to move away from heavy vehicles and toward producing light weight variable fighters for all main line roles. Every main line variable fighter following the VF-4 was built under 10 tons. The VF-5000, the VF-9, the VF-11, the YF-19/VF-19 and the YF-21/VF-22 were all built under 10 tons. Those variable fighters that weren't designed in line with this policy were phased out (VF-4) or not pursued (VF-3000). Heavy variable fighters were made for specialized needs only and not as main line fighters (special operations fighters like the VF-17 Nightmare or specialized role variable vehicles like the VAB-2D Variable Fighter-Bomber/VA-3 Invader/VB-6 Konig Shuttle). The VF-14 remains one of the few exceptions to this UN Forces policy; the only heavy variable fighter that was deployed in a main line role after the VF-4.

Awacs

I agree. The VF-4 would have been depolyed in much the same way as the VF-1 and was in service for many years. Over 8,000 fighters were built, so that should be a big indicator how popular this fighter was. The VF-4 would have been deployed all over the UNG colonies, both in space and on planets.

sketchley

Indeed, very good point.

[azrael]

mike

I'm not really sure what the fictional reason was given for the move away from the VF-4. I doubt the VF-4 was a poor atmospheric fighter, just not as optimized as it was for space. Keep in mind that the desert camo is very theatre specific. They probably dressed not just the VF-4, but all variable fighters and all military ground hardware in that same scheme for all the units that were deployed in the sandy theatre of operations.

The main reason for the switch from the VF-4 to the VF-5000 was primarily costs. The entries for the VF-4 or VF-5000 do not indicate that atmospheric performance was an issue. As such, it would be prudent to say that performance was NOT an issue between the VF-4 and VF-5000. The entry for the VF-5000 clearly indicates that cost of production and maintenance was the deciding factor to the VF-5000's introduction.

Heavy variable fighters were made for specialized needs only and not as main line fighters (special operations fighters like the VF-17 Nightmare or specialized role variable vehicles like the VAB-2D Variable Fighter-Bomber/VA-3 Invader/VB-6 Konig Shuttle). The VF-14 remains one of the few exceptions to this UN Forces policy; the only heavy variable fighter that was deployed in a main line role after the VF-4.

Not really... The VF/VA-14's role was delegated more toward colonial and specialized fleets. It wasn't a primary-fleet VF. That role went to the VF-4/VF-5000/VF-11.

VF-14

VF-5000

VF-4

[Zinjo]

I was under the impression that the VF-14 was primarily for the Zentreadi emigration fleets.

Considering it borrowed Zentreadi tech as well as OTEC during it's development and thus would be very familiar to the Zent techs.

Wasn't the Megaroad 13 fleet primarily Zentreadi as well, which would explain the adaptation of it's fighter compliment into PD tech?

[Mr March]

Not really... The VF/VA-14's role was delegated more toward colonial and specialized fleets. It wasn't a primary-fleet VF. That role went to the VF-4/VF-5000/VF-11.

Good catch! I thought I read "main line" in the VF-14 description, but it just states "main." Well, there we have it then; my theory is sound across the board, no exceptions. That's a first

[azrael]

I was under the impression that the VF-14 was primarily for the Zentreadi emigration fleets.

Yes. The VF-14 was the primary fighter for emigration fleets, including Zentradi.